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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 17th Jul 2017, 15:06
  #11141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South East England
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
Here's their website Common Purpose Exposed

I don't see David Cameron listed as a "graduate"?
It is a secret society.
But there is this: Press row: PM faces questions over link to charity - Telegraph
And this: David Cameron praises Common Purpose's work between the UK and India | Blog | Common Purpose
And this: Common Purpose at the heart of the Conservative party | Common Purpose Exposed
And this: EXPOSED: The Face of Common Purpose ? Britain?s PM | Namaste Publishing UK
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 15:12
  #11142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
Because the Wikipedia entry is obviously written by Common Purpose.
Ah, but that post was written and posted by you. Therefore by your own logic we must ignore it and automatically assume its content is c7ynical political propaganda created for some dark purpose (such as promoting the prohibition of Merlot in built-up areas during the hours of darkness, or banning the use of electric toothbrushes within 10 miles of any site of special scientific interest, no doubt).

You have dropped your guard and revealed your sinister agenda!

Be gone, dark spirit - I CAST THEE OUT!!!

PDR
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 15:14
  #11143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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PS:

I know you daemon spirits don't get the News since they shut down analogue TV, but FYI David Camoron is no longer in a position of power, and hasn't been for quite a while. I suggest you ask Voldemort's Director of Communications to sort you out a decent news-feed before you embarrass yourself further.

PDR
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 15:27
  #11144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Ah, but that post was written and posted by you. Therefore by your own logic we must ignore it and automatically assume its content is c7ynical political propaganda created for some dark purpose (such as promoting the prohibition of Merlot in built-up areas during the hours of darkness, or banning the use of electric toothbrushes within 10 miles of any site of special scientific interest, no doubt).

You have dropped your guard and revealed your sinister agenda!

Be gone, dark spirit - I CAST THEE OUT!!!

PDR
You think that I am WikiLeaks.
LOL.
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Common_purpose
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 18:00
  #11145 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
HS2 was, of course, conceived by the last Labour government.
Correct, well done ! ...however, in your exuberance you seem to have missed one tiny point.

Labour only proposed a study in 2009, in 2010, sadly, they lost power and what party has been in Gov't since and responsible as a result thereafter ?

Eclectic...

" If better railways really are a good idea then much more can be achieved for far more people far more cheaply in far less time and with vastly less environmental impact by electrifying the Chiltern line and increasing the speed and capacity of the East Coast line, which was designed to run at 140mph but can’t because of a lack of investment in in cab signalling.



That's interesting, because only a few weeks ago I was talking, and listening to, current rail professionals. They were very clear, and supportive, of any proposals re the Chiltern line, and also the former Great Central route as being viable and at considerably less cost.



13) Once HS2 is operational the West Coast express trains on the existing lines will be replaced by slow, stopping trains. This will wipe out a huge part of the transport infrastructure for a lot of towns and cities. Places like Rugby and Coventry will be very badly hit because they will no longer be a viable London commute. Many other towns will have the hearts ripped out of them

I've not heard that proposed before, in fact, the reverse as there would be more capacity available, not forgetting the costs of travelling on HS2 are going to be in the budget range of most commuters, and almost certainly not within the range of leisure travellers.

Have to say that was a remarkably detailed post however, almost unique for JB in fact.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 17th Jul 2017 at 18:13.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 18:11
  #11146 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly HS2 has no impact on me. But, the question is, how people complained about the M40, M25, Channel tunnel etc? Surely without these projects getting sorted nothing would.

I don't suppose everyone agreed with nuclear power stations, but they are a necessity in view of other forms of power.

So at what point do we think about what the future generations want rather than what we disagree with?
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 18:32
  #11147 (permalink)  
 
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AFAICS, the Labour government initiative to improve North/South transport links, including HS2, seems a sound policy. There is still a big social divide between North and South, despite various attempts to force growth in the North and move public sector jobs out of the "Greater South East" (a defined area where you are not allowed to create a new government post without explicit, high level, consent). The efforts made to create jobs and re-invigorate the North haven't worked that well, and one key problem has always been transport links. Our roads and motorways are already pretty congested, and a high speed rail route makes more sense than trying to build new roads.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 18:41
  #11148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
AFAICS, the Labour government initiative to improve North/South transport links, including HS2, seems a sound policy.
If you've an investment in the London economy, that is, as such links suck wealth into London.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 18:56
  #11149 (permalink)  
 
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Murder gets a mandatory life sentence now.

The flint case did not return a guilty verdict on murder. But of manslaughter.

Murderers do not get out after a couple of years.

Thank you ORAC for the clarification for those of us who needed it.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 19:41
  #11150 (permalink)  
 
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Murderers do indeed gt a life sentence but how many serve the "whole" life? Very few but others can be out of prison after 15 years or so. As for the victim in Flint, murder or manslaughter makes no difference. The girl ended up just as dead and no doubt the killer will be eligible for parole half way through his sentence.
Regardless of the murder and manslaughter angle, what about rapes and kidnaps? Couple of year, perhaps? The point remains; the courts take a more serious line against crimes against property than they do for crimes against the person.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 19:42
  #11151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
PDR1: Don't "sunshine" me you plonker!
Great train robbers got 30 years. For robbery, not murder, manslaughter etc.
Actually they got most of that sentence for the vicious attack on the security guard, but what you seem to have missed is that the difference between "robbery" and "theft" is that "robbery" is the offence of theft when accompanied or facilitated by violence or the threat of violence. Sentences for robbery are much stiffer than sentences for theft or burglary because of the element of harm to people rather than property, so your whole point falls down.

Sorry to ruin your argument by introducing facts, sunshine.

PDR
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 20:03
  #11152 (permalink)  
 
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If you want to know the truth in a world where the MSM is mainly fake news then good sources are:

Tommy Robinson. On YouTube, Twitter etc. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6w..._phre6Q3kFiV2g
Paul Joseph Watson. On the same social media: https://www.youtube.com/user/PrisonPlanetLive
Ann Marie Waters, same media: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaG...DIQQDftxiMCyYw

The Common Purpose controlled institutions call these people "racist", "right wing" or even "extreme right wing".
And the Common Purpose controlled police harass them continuously for not conforming to the mantra.
Yet watch their videos and all you get is facts and truth.
No wonder their audience is increasing massively as more people realise that the BBC is fake news propaganda.
Some of their videos often reach bigger audiences than major BBC TV programmes. For instance Newsnight now only have about half a million viewers for their leftist babble.

Even if you still believe in the BBC (some credulous folk do) then these social media stars are worth visiting for balance.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 21:08
  #11153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Kelvin

Murderers do indeed get a life sentence. Correct.
A mandatory one. The judge has no choice.

How many serve the whole life, very few. Correct.

Others can be out of prison after 15 years or so. Correct.
NB. 15 years is not a couple of years.

As for the victim...
You think it matters to the victim's family?
It certainly matters to the law whether the offence is manslaughter or murder.
Trivialising the difference does not advance your point.

Parole for murderers doesn't work like normal sentences. Who is to say what half way through a life sentence is?
So the way it works is that a tariff is set. After the tariff, a murderer becomes eligible for parole.

I disagree with your assertion that courts take crimes against property more seriously than crimes against the person.
Sentencing guidelines, I am sure you can find them, state that armed robbery against commercial premises carries a high base tariff. And then there are aggravating factors....being armed with knives or guns being a serious one.
You give as examples some of the most extreme armed heists against commercial premises. With many aggravating factors. I am not surprised that the sentences passed at the time were heavy indeed.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 21:18
  #11154 (permalink)  
 
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What is robbery

It is also helpful to consider what comprises the offence of robbery...

The offence is committed when a person steals and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, he uses force on any person, or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subject to force.

Robbery is a crime against property AND against a person...
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 21:22
  #11155 (permalink)  
 
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So if somebody and bumps into me 'accidentally' and lifts my wallet whilst he apologising and straightening me up; that is robbery and he is going to get slammed up for a long time.

Dream along.
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 22:00
  #11156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
So if somebody and bumps into me 'accidentally' and lifts my wallet whilst he apologising and straightening me up; that is robbery
No, it's Theft. To be "robbery" it should have included violence or the threat of violence.

It's a "knowing what you're talking about" thing - I suspect you won't be familiar with the concept.

PDR
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Old 17th Jul 2017, 23:10
  #11157 (permalink)  
 
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Dream along sounds about right Far East...
But I will decline your kind invitation to join you

Be careful you don't bump into your missus next time you make love to her. A rape allegation may follow....
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 00:57
  #11158 (permalink)  
 
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PDR1:
Actually they got most of that sentence for the vicious attack on the security guard
Really? When did British Rail start carrying security guards? Perhaps you mean the train driver (Mr. Mills). And as you seem to have the whole thing figured out, why not let us all into the secret? Let's see the source of your info regarding the logic behind the sentences. And how did I miss the difference between robbery and theft when my post referred only to robbery?
MrAngry: Believe it or not, we are, to some extent, singing from the same hymn sheet. I would like to make it clear though I was not trivialising anything. It may well matter to the law the distinction between murder and manslaughter but what does it matter to the family of the victim? And it is the family of the victim the law is meant to represent, not the law itself.
I am aware of how sentences and tariffs work. My late father was a JP and my son was, for some time, a prisoner escort officer who frequently had to cart these people off to prison and he was forever coming home with tales of how lightly some appeared to be treated compared to others. During his time with this work, they were still imposing IPP orders/sentences for the particularly nasty element of society.
But, to go back to the crimes against property vs crimes against the person argument. In addition to those I mentioned earlier, there was a recent case of a man who murdered another in a frenzied knife attack and got 34 years! Why did he get 34 years, yet others have received less? His intention was to steal a 50,000 rare edition of a book. So, I am afraid my conviction re this "perceived" bias and therefore against those bloody Normans who started it all remain fixed!
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 06:44
  #11159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
That would be:



You got me ELDG, banged to rights.

CG
And another one

(trigger warning : Daily Mail link)

London teacher reveals Left are brainwashing children | Daily Mail Online

the education system has become increasingly gripped by a culture of Orwellian groupthink, where only fashionable, Left-wing opinions are deemed acceptable
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Old 18th Jul 2017, 07:04
  #11160 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
And another one

(trigger warning : Daily Mail link)

London teacher reveals Left are brainwashing children | Daily Mail Online
We can only thank you for such informative links, the sources being as dubious as a 5 note printed on one side with 20 printed on the other.

However, according to the "somewhat rabid", for want of a better term, and not even divorced from reality as they've never encountered it, commentators on here, the "money tree" is unique to Labour and Corbyn.....alas, here's a forest of such trees... all waiting to be pruned.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...ash-on-schools
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