UK politics - Hamsterwheel

[ORAC]

Mustafa Almansur: Who is the organiser of the Grenfell Tower protest movement?

[sitigeltfel]

Originally Posted by Cazalet33

That pic is from the Mirror which publishes a direct lie, that May didn't meet residents. She did, on two occasions, but don't let facts get in the way of propaganda, eh?

[SOPS]

It is no wonder the UK is in such a mess, when these sort of things are allowed under the banner of PCism and appeasement. I thought Mrs May said 'enough is enough.'

[VP959]

Originally Posted by sitigeltfel

That pic is from the Mirror which publishes a direct lie, that May didn't meet residents. She did, on two occasions, but don't let facts get in the way of propaganda, eh?

Not only is a complete lie, but it also fails to show that the Queen was inside a sterile cordon, meeting a few screened and selected people and was not out in the open at all.

The political haymaking that's going on by so many makes me sick to the core, all those using this tragedy to express their own particular political agendas should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

When the full story is revealed, I am absolutely certain that we will find that all political parties played a part in the circumstances that created this fire risk. The situation whereby the construction industry has been allowed to repeatedly cut corners, water down regulation and manage their own construction and safety standards has been growing for decades, across several different governments.

I have no time for the current PM, but had the situation been reversed, with Labour having won the GE with no overall majority, would the Grenfell Tower fire have not happened?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Originally Posted by SOPS

You're making this up, aren't you?

The reply I received from a petition I signed

16 JUN 2017 — Dear Petitioner

Thank you for the petition submitted on the change.org website about the Al Quds Day March on 18 June.

The Mayor is aware of the concerns raised about this march by London's Jewish community and has received a full briefing on the policing plan from the Met Police.

Both the Mayor and the Metropolitan Police Service are clear that keeping London safe by tackling hate crime and reducing the risk posed by terror groups are of the highest priority. The recently published Police and Crime Plan contains considerable detail on how policing will continue to focus on these areas.

As is the case for any group, protesters have the right to march as long as they do so within the law. The Mayor does not have the power to ban a march in London.

Due to the concerns raised, the Mayor has personally discussed the policing of this event with the Commissioner, and has written to her today (16 June) to underline his support for the Metropolitan Police making use of all of the powers at their disposal to ensure that, should any criminal offences occur, suitable action will be taken.

The Mayor has ensured that the Met fully appreciates the potential impact of this march on London's communities and is monitoring the situation closely. As ever, there will be a zero-tolerance approach to hate crime, including anti-Semitism.

Yours sincerely,


Public Liaison Unit
Greater London Authority

It will very interesting to see if anyone carrying hate related banners etc is pulled from the crowd and arrested

[VP959]

Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose

It will very interesting to see if anyone carrying hate related banners etc is pulled from the crowd and arrested

I think the simple answer to that question is that it is very unlikely.

Tolerance is the current buzz word, even if that means letting extremists call for the death of other citizens.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Originally Posted by VP959

I think the simple answer to that question is that it is very unlikely.

Tolerance is the current buzz word, even if that means letting extremists call for the death of other citizens.

Tolerance or fear of angering the whole Muslim community?

IMHO IF the Muslim community were genuinely concerned and genuinely want the extremest elements of their grouping removed they would get 100% behind the police wading in and yanking those transgressors out of the crowd but I doubt very much if that is actually the case.

[Krystal n chips]

" I have no time for the current PM "



Neither have I....I suspect, however, I may not be alone in the UK in this respect.....

but had the situation been reversed, with Labour having won the GE with no overall majority, would the Grenfell Tower fire have not happened

I'm not sure what the OAT is in Wiltshire today, but, a sun hat may come in useful. The reason being, I am unable to make the correlation between the hypothetical GE result and erm, the fire in question......

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by ORAC

For those who remember and interested when I mentioned I was waiting for my degree result, I got a 2:1.

Congratulations! I'm pleased for you.

Originally Posted by sitigeltfel

That pic is from the Mirror which publishes a direct lie, that May didn't meet residents. She did, on two occasions, but don't let facts get in the way of propaganda, eh?

The Mirror is little more than a low quality Labour fanzine, which fills its pages on a daily basis with anti-Tory smears.

I wouldn't wipe my a*** with it.

[Cornish Jack]

VP959 - re. our previous disagreement, you may care to consider the reported 'tweet' from the Fire Brigades Union, this morning, to the effect that there have been NO fatalities in sprinkler equipped buildings. I am reasonably certain that the FBU are, more or less, up to speed on these matters!

[Mr Optimistic]

It's the single stairwell in a high-rise building I wonder about. Need to protect the stairwell first and foremost I would think

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by Andy_S

Congratulations! I'm pleased for you.



The Mirror is little more than a low quality Labour fanzine, which fills its pages on a daily basis with anti-Tory smears.

I wouldn't wipe my a*** with it.

Nice to be privy to your sanitary habits.

What do you make of this, and the links contained therein, therefore ? ( "champagne socialist" is a rather tired and invalid response please note )

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ameron-osborne

[VP959]

Originally Posted by Cornish Jack

VP959 - re. our previous disagreement, you may care to consider the reported 'tweet' from the Fire Brigades Union, this morning, to the effect that there have been NO fatalities in sprinkler equipped buildings. I am reasonably certain that the FBU are, more or less, up to speed on these matters!

You may also care to note that I both agree with fitting sprinklers, have always agreed with the principle of fitting them and have only pointed out that conventional sprinklers are far less effective at smoke suppression than mist sprinklers, and that in this fire the major problem that has been reported in terms of escape, by both the residents that survived and the fire service, was smoke and fumes that both obscured visibility and rapidly disabled those without breathing equipment.

You may also want to understand how sprinklers work. They are activated by heat in a room or space, they are not activated by fire on the outside of a building, nor are they activated by smoke.

[Local Variation]

Agreed VP.

Once the fire had breached the flat, I can not see how a sprinkler system would have contained the ferocious nature of this specific event.

[VP959]

Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic

It's the single stairwell in a high-rise building I wonder about. Need to protect the stairwell first and foremost I would think

According to the specification for the refurbishment that used to be on the (now deleted) KCTMO website, the work was supposed to include a new smoke removal system, to better protect the stairwell.

It seems that this may not have worked as well as it should have, given that smoke and fumes in the stairwell seems to have been the biggest problem when it came to people getting out of the building.

From some of the reports, people were alive inside their flats, trapped by the smoke and fumes in the stairwell for up to a couple of hours before they died. Had the stairwell been kept relatively free of smoke that it seems likely that many more would have been able to escape, or perhaps rescued by the firefighters.

[VP959]

Originally Posted by Local Variation

Agreed VP.

Once the fire had breached the flat, I can not see how a sprinkler system would have contained the ferocious nature of this specific event.

From the research I did when looking to fit sprinklers to our new house, it seems possible that a low volume, high pressure, mist fire suppression system may have helped. As I mentioned elsewhere, one advantage these systems have over sprinklers is that the very fine water droplets tend to wash smoke particles out of the air. The problem is that they don't reduce the level of fumes, and given that much of the fire was from burning isocyanates, the fumes themselves were probably fairly toxic.

[Andy_S]

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips

What do you make of this, and the links contained therein, therefore ? ( "champagne socialist" is a rather tired and invalid response please note )

I did begin to read the link in good faith, but only got as far as the words "Polly Toynbee" before giving up.

[Local Variation]

I think the cladding material and the apparent failure of any fire stopping, rendered this site immune from any real effect of cost effective supression system.

[Cornish Jack]

Ah well, as long as the experts on this thread are content in their views, one must hope that they will communicate their expertise to the ill-informed personnel who have to deal with these matters. I can only be grateful that there were no such advisors during my working time in an associated area.

[Local Variation]

27 years in the industry and counting Cornish Jack.