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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:06
  #10641 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Planemike, the "empty homes" myth is just that, a myth. Yes there are empty properties, but just a small fraction - about 0.64% of London housing. Most owners want a return and the properties are mainly buy to let and are let to tenants. There are undoubtedly the odd millionaire or billionaire with a London home they keep empty for when they are in town, but minuscule against the total.

More to the point is that the average rent of such a property, not converted to a HOMO or suitable for conversion, will be thousands of pounds a month and far in excess of the amount any council housing benefit can afford. Rent controls have been tried in the past and failed - in Sweden they have led to waiting lists of up to 20 years for a one bedroom apartment.

Corbyn is playing politics and inciting violence. Sky reporter in the scene this morning saying that the mood on the streets is growing increasingly ugly and could easily spark into riots. And London is an area where such riots have exploded about once a generation with each wave of new immigration - 1958, 1968, 1981, 1985, 2011...

Rent Control in Stockholm - Marginal REVOLUTION


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-control-flat
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:22
  #10642 (permalink)  
 
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I guess you gave all your ill-gotten gains to the poor folks then
... answered by...
No? Why should I? I paid a higher tax rate and NI.
That is exactly the problem with a high tax society. People just don't care any more because they are already 'contributing' (another way of saying 'having confiscated') so much of their hard worked-for earnings. Charitable giving by the wealthy in Britain before the advent of the 'tax the rich' society was higher as is charitable giving in lower tax societies. When you work hard for something and a greedy government takes so much from you, then the temptation to say 'sod off' to anyone who holds their hand out for 'more' is much, much greater. As angels has so eloquently answered.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:24
  #10643 (permalink)  
 
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It's not just London either. The same applies to all those holiday homes in Cornwall, Spain France etc.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:24
  #10644 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC...........All I can say is, I remain to be convinced.

Bit of a change of tack, apparently the German housing market works fairly well. Details, from anyone who has accurate unbiased information??

TROSSIE....... Our problem is we are a relatively highly taxed nation but where is the money spent, certainly does not show in our welfare and infrastructure. In contrast Scandinavian countries have something to show for their taxation.

This is why folk are becoming P****d off. Take the money off us, try and "do the job on the cheap" (as exemplified by Grenfell Tower, but there plenty more), think we are wising up and beginning to take action.

Last edited by Planemike; 16th Jun 2017 at 11:35.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:32
  #10645 (permalink)  
 
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Corbyn is playing politics and inciting violence.
He is just a rabble-rouser with no coherent policies. A typical 'protest politician' with no thoughts beyond the end of his political nose. He could dangerously destabilise fragile situations, for no benefit to anyone other than his own greedy political ends. This should be watched and highlighted.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:01
  #10646 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
He is just a rabble-rouser with no coherent policies. A typical 'protest politician' with no thoughts beyond the end of his political nose. He could dangerously destabilise fragile situations, for no benefit to anyone other than his own greedy political ends. This should be watched and highlighted.
I fear you greatly under estimate Jeremy Corbyn, as have very many others. What ever you think of his policies, it has to be admitted he is a sincere man who has connected with quite a large section of the population despite the very best endeavours of a biased media.

He could dangerously destabilise fragile situations, for no benefit to anyone other than his own greedy political ends.
Those words could very easily be used of a certain lady who is busy "cosying up" to a political party in NI. Leave you to change/insert words as required.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:12
  #10647 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Planemike, the "empty homes" myth is just that, a myth. Yes there are empty properties, but just a small fraction - about 0.64% of London housing. Most owners want a return and the properties are mainly buy to let and are let to tenants. There are undoubtedly the odd millionaire or billionaire with a London home they keep empty for when they are in town, but minuscule against the total.
Depends what you call miniscule - government stats show 1399 properties empty for longer than 6 months in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea out of 86920, about 1.6%. In an emergency situation where replacement housing is needed very quickly, and most likely little or no council accommodation available, then it seems reasonable to suggest alternatives.

Perhaps some of the owners of the empty properties might have a social conscience and offer their assets for a period? No one is suggesting it as a permanent arrangement, but would alleviate the crisis while a longer term solution is put in place.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:57
  #10648 (permalink)  

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Corbyn is playing politics and inciting violence. Sky reporter in the scene this morning saying that the mood on the streets is growing increasingly ugly and could easily spark into riots
You mean the deaths of dozens of people are not the catalyst for the mood turning ugly?

Without apportioning blame right now, it does seem the cladding was to blame. Essentially the installation of the cladding on that block went to the company that bid the lowest. The company's directors pay themselves six figure sums. One lives in a mansion outside Crowborough, a million miles from north Ken.

People are just beginning to realise that something seemingly arcane such as the privatisation of council in-house services have actually led to lives being put at risk. They are getting angry.

Don't blame Corbyn for pointing out what privatisation and austerity can lead to.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:05
  #10649 (permalink)  
 
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I am very uncomfortable with the way this tragedy is being used for political means. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.

The way Labour are trying to use it to knock the Tories and TM is disgusting.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:14
  #10650 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.
We shall see.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:15
  #10651 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I am very uncomfortable with the way this tragedy is being used for political means. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.

The way Labour are trying to use it to knock the Tories and TM is disgusting.
The way many on these forums and all over social media is equally as disgusting. No one has a scooby as to why this tragedy has ACTUALLY happened but already the usual suspects are lining up their usual suspects, it's how the Left operates at the moment.

I listened to 5 live this morning and some shrill female newsie type was berating a former housing minister as to why the cladding being used on Grenfell House was allowed to be used when it is banned in the US. Feckin Kinder Eggs are banned in the US so should we now be following suit and taking them off the shelve, stupid sensationalist headline seeking mare
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:15
  #10652 (permalink)  
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I fear you greatly under estimate Jeremy Corbyn
On the contrary.

It would easy to suppose that Corbyn was being naive as to the possible consequences of his actions, but it would be wrong.

Corbyn well knows that to "requisition" property would need primary legislation which would be impossible to get through the House or the Lords, and even if it somehow miraculously did that, would then be tied up and thrown out by either the Supreme Court or the EU Court. In the meantime he has stoked up an unrealistic expectation which will only be seen as being blocked by the "rich" and invites a long hot summer of occupation, arson and riot.

Tie that in with MCDonnell's call for mass strikes and marches during the summer and their, again unrealistic and parliamentary impossible request to present a Labour "Queen's Speech" and you have a deliberate attempt to incite civil disobedience and disrupt the operation of routine life and parliamentary government.

Heath had to face a "Winter of Discontent", it would seem Corbyn is set on providing May with a "Summer of Discontent" - no matter what the cost.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:21
  #10653 (permalink)  
 
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No one has a scooby as to why this tragedy has ACTUALLY happened but already the usual suspects are lining up their usual suspects, it's how the Left operates at the moment.
There are some indisputable facts which are very plain for anyone to see, they will be confirmed (not revealed) when an enquiry does report. You do not need to be Left or Right to see and grasp those facts. As you say not sure what Kinder Eggs has to do with it, you brought them up.

You talk of this as though it is a one off event, first of its kind. It is not there have been other fires in high rise buildings other here and abroad. Sorry I do not have the name of the property to hand but there was another fire in London in which six folk lost their lives. A coroner's report (hardly likely to be an agent of the Left drew attention to the dangers inherent in this cladding. Something could have been done.

Do you not see why many people are very angry and are not prepared to go on putting up with authority protecting itself and saying "don't worry your pretty little heads, we have everything under control"? Not intended as a personal attack but I do feel you have some of that mentality. I stress, no personal offence intended.

I draw attention again to Hillsborough. Different circumstances but again authority did everything it could to protect itself including blaming Liverpool fans. It took years to have justice and hear the truth. Really do not want Grenfell Tower added to that list.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:28
  #10654 (permalink)  
 
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An indisputable fact is that no one even knows how or where the fire started yet, the Fire Brigade are not releasing that info.

I don't talk of it in any way shape or form apart from it being a tragedy that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet.

I will sit quietly and patiently and await the outcome of the police and fire investigation then see who and where any blame lies with.

Those who want to wallow in the cess pool of speculation, supposition and random blame apportioning can feel free to do so.

If the kinder egg reference went over your head I suspect most of the above will as well.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:29
  #10655 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
On the contrary.

It would easy to suppose that Corbyn was being naive as to the possible consequences of his actions, but it would be wrong.

Corbyn well knows that to "requisition" property would need primary legislation which would be impossible to get through the House or the Lords, and even if it somehow miraculously did that, would then be tied up and thrown out by either the Supreme Court or the EU Court. In the meantime he has stoked up an unrealistic expectation which will only be seen as being blocked by the "rich" and invites a long hot summer of occupation, arson and riot.

Tie that in with MCDonnell's call for mass strikes and marches during the summer and their, again unrealistic and parliamentary impossible request to present a Labour "Queen's Speech" and you have a deliberate attempt to incite civil disobedience and disrupt the operation of routine life and parliamentary government.

Heath had to face a "Winter of Discontent", it would seem Corbyn is set on providing May with a "Summer of Discontent" - no matter what the cost.

It would not be easy for various reasons to requisition property but there is not harm in bring the matter forward for debate and applying moral pressure to those landlords who sit on that property. To my knowledge not one has come along and said "here, I can help out, I can house a couple of families". By contrast many other individual companies have donated goods and services to the survivors. Community spirit appears to have worked but not at landlord level.

Last edited by Planemike; 16th Jun 2017 at 14:40.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:30
  #10656 (permalink)  
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Planemike.

Lakanal House fire - Coroner recommendations and government reply.

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/elections...oroner-inquest

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ecommendations
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:35
  #10657 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
An indisputable fact is that no one even knows how or where the fire started yet, the Fire Brigade are not releasing that info.

I don't talk of it in any way shape or form apart from it being a tragedy that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet.

I will sit quietly and patiently and await the outcome of the police and fire investigation then see who and where any blame lies with.

Those who want to wallow in the cess pool of speculation, supposition and random blame apportioning can feel free to do so.

If the kinder egg reference went over your head I suspect most of the above will as well.
It has been reported the fire started in a flat on the fourth floor. A survivors spoke to the resident of that flat.

"that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet." Just not true.

This business of waiting for reports from all and sundry just enables "authority" to distance itself from the tragedy and try to accept as little responsibility as it can get away with. "Kick it out into the long grass, the public will forget about it and move on". Sorry, to me and I suspect many more that is just not acceptable. We need people to be accountable.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:36
  #10658 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC ...........Thank you !!
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:40
  #10659 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Hillsborough (and King's Cross and Bradford City). Whilst all the lies and dissembling and wheedling out lasted for many years, these events DID lead to wide-ranging and permanent changes. The idea of a public enquiry fills me with dread- it will take years and years, enriching lawyers, and allowing the rich and influential to get their ducks in a row. Rich people rarely do time.

I'd like to see some real decisive action. If it were me: the fire safety of any building in the UK above the number of floors decided by the LFB Commissioner would now be handed to the local fire service. Private and LA. Every one of those building to be inspected by the fire service within the week, with any orders rectified or mitigated to the fire service's satisfaction by 7 days after that. Or they close it. No appeals. Central government foots the bill for LA stock, and for rehousing for repairs.

The only vested interest here will be the firemen, who will be running in to the future burning buildings. They will get it right, with support from experts of their choosing, also funded by central gov.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:41
  #10660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I am very uncomfortable with the way this tragedy is being used for political means. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.

The way Labour are trying to use it to knock the Tories and TM is disgusting.
When Mayor Khan visited the area yesterday Sky said it tied up thirty police officers for nearly two hours to protect him. Corbyn ensured that the centres he visited were stuffed with sympathisers and activists, lest anyone go "off message". Did Corbyn bring along his new Kensington MP, Emma Coad, to explain why she did nothing about the problems when she was a director of KCTO?

Khan obviously didn't reckon that a seven year old kid would notice the London emperors new clothes and heckled him. Footage of Mays visit shows very little security presence, save for what a prime minister would normally command.

If people are impressed by politicians grandstanding, they get what they deserve.
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