Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 10th Jun 2017, 15:37
  #10301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolton ENGLAND
Age: 76
Posts: 965
I know it comes under pigs flying category but this did make me wonder if Gerry A would give special dispensation just this once for the SF members to take their places as voting members, in spite of the need to take the pledge.
There is just small problem.......It is called "The Oath of Allegiance " !!
Planemike is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 15:41
  #10302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 6,192
You forgot to mention 'jobs for life' - 'generation rent' might have a point
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 15:42
  #10303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 412
No chance of holding your fingers crossed behind your back, either, I think, as IIRC the swearing in is done in a fairly open area, where you'd not get away with a trick like that.
VP959 is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 15:44
  #10304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ---------->
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Jetex_Jim View Post
Yet another article regarding the significance of the youth vote.

https://www.ft.com/content/094ab23c-...4-c742b9791d43



It's easy to dismiss the youth vote, as many are doing, by saying that as people get older they naturally move to the right politically. I agree, most do. When you have less of a future in front of you it's natural to become risk averse and to desire a maintenance of the status quo, or even, god bless 'em a return to the good old days.

But this will not be a linear change. There's a demographic bulge of old people - the baby boomers, born between 1945 and 1960. This crowd are the brexiters and the natural party of support for Conservativism, as they drop off the perch they will NOT be replaced in the same numbers. The influence of the youth vote will get stronger and stronger as the baby boomers fade out.

A friend of mine has predicted that the next minority group to be singled out for demonisation will be neither an ethic or religious group. It will be the old folks. The ones who got free university education, the ones who bought property while it was still affordable and the ones who are now being supported via the state and whose pensions and health care are costing the working taxpayers plenty.

This group will become the new scapegoats, the new Irish, the new Pakis, the new Poles. And when that happens, and someone reminds the working taxpayers that those old folks were also the ones who in the main voted for Brexit, I'd say wave bye-bye to your tripple locked pensions folks.
Age breakdown of Labour vote

18-24 9%
25-34 19%
35-44 20%
45-54 18%
55-64 18%
65+ 16%
EGLD is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 15:50
  #10305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Tory MPs murdered by Corbyns IRA friends = 3
Ulster Unionist MPs murderered by Corbyns IRA friends = 1
Labour MPs murderered by Corbyns IRA friends = 0
Total MPs murdered by Ulster Unionists = 0

You were saying?
Daily Mail spin didn't work on the electorate.................... ask the UVF / LYV and their ILK where there they got the political support from for decades.

Paisley claiming one thing and then happily sending them out and then wiping hands soon as it went bad. Happy to parade of hillsides with his "Third Force" when it suited.

Peter Robinsons its former leader was arrsted for attacking unarmed Garda station with loyalist extremists, also happy to dress up in Paramilitary clothing and take part in Loyalist terrorist parades and arms importers.

DUP quite happy to pretend it hated terrorism, but that was only from Republicans, anything from Loyalists was fully supported.
racedo is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 16:02
  #10306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
Age breakdown of Labour vote

18-24 9%
25-34 19%
35-44 20%
45-54 18%
55-64 18%
65+ 16%
Thanks for that, it's pretty illuminating, as it doesn't support the "youth vote" theory that's being bandied around in the media at all. More "fake news" perhaps?

So, it looks as if support for Labour was fairly even across the 25 to 64 age grouping, which seems surprising. I'd have thought that it would have been significantly greater in the lower age groups and lower in the higher age groups.

Conventional wisdom seems to be that young people start of with idealistic left wing views, and that we shift right as we age. That might be partly true, given the smaller percentage of over 65s that voted Labour, but it's not much of a shift. Maybe the relatively large over 65 percentage was related to the ill-thought-through social care policies of the Conservatives.
VP959 is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 16:43
  #10307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 83
Posts: 697
I love "The Future is Orange" quote. 👍
funfly is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 16:46
  #10308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by VP959
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
Age breakdown of Labour vote

18-24 9%
25-34 19%
35-44 20%
45-54 18%
55-64 18%
65+ 16%
Thanks for that, it's pretty illuminating, as it doesn't support the "youth vote" theory that's being bandied around in the media at all. More "fake news" perhaps?
I think that rather depends on the integrity of EGLD's unreferenced source doesn't it?
Jetex_Jim is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 16:50
  #10309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,094
Originally Posted by racedo View Post
DUP are British Nutters who worship the Queen and everything British.
That was nothing like the bite I was hoping for!

CG
charliegolf is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 16:51
  #10310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 906
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
They had no choice.
A thought occurs to me.

Suppose Theresa May had conceded. Accepted that the Conservatives had lost their majority and the confidence of the electorate. And graciously acknowledged that Labour, under Corbyn, had enthused many people previously cynical and disengaged from the political process.

And then suppose that she had informed HM the Q that she was unable to form a government and would give other parties a chance to form a workable coalition.

And then just step back and let them get on with it. Let Mr Corbyn have a crack, as he requested, at governing as head of a 'progressive' coalition.....

One wonders how long his honeymoon would last?
Andy_S is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:06
  #10311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 906
Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
3. Null and void the election as conservatives did not have a majority and let Corbyn have a go with whoever he lines up to give them a working majority.
I don't think you can 'null & void' the election, and I don't think it's mathematically possible for Corbyn to assemble a coalition with a majority.

Other than that, I think the idea has merit.

I think the Tories are in real trouble. Without a majority, and with a leader whose personal authority has been blown away, I can see a slow, painful death for the next Tory government.

Why not cut their losses and go into opposition. Corbyn has asked to form a government - why not let him try? Surely they've nothing to lose by letting him take responsibility for running a minority government?
Andy_S is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:14
  #10312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ---------->
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Jetex_Jim View Post
I think that rather depends on the integrity of EGLD's unreferenced source doesn't it?
apologies - ashcroft polls
EGLD is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:14
  #10313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,094
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post

Why not cut their losses and go into opposition. Corbyn has asked to form a government - why not let him try? Surely they've nothing to lose by letting him take responsibility for running a minority government?
Because that could turn out to be the 3rd monumentally stupid decision the Tories will have made in 2 years. Because... the precedent is set for breaking the 5 year rule, "To allow the electorate to give Labour a full mandate..." And if they won, then holy crap, Batman!

CG
charliegolf is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:17
  #10314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: England
Posts: 2
I think there is a lot of merit in what baggersup says but the main reason that the Tories are in the present mess was their manifesto - particularly.....
foreign aid - why persist with the lunacy of a fixed percentage?
HS2 - a huge amount of money for what? To benefit a few people.
Fox hunting - what on earth was that doing in a manifesto at this time?
Winter fuel payments - there is an argument that not all pensioners should get these but no explanation was put forward.
Triple lock on pensions - no details given as to changes,which, on the face of it, were very worrying for people existing on a state pension.
Bus passes - taking away a very useful, and relatively cheap, benefit from pensioners.
School meals - taking away from children - not a good decision [ for some children in badly managed homes a free school meal is the only decent meal they get in a day ].
It might be argued that all was not as bad as it seemed but it's the perception of it which mattered. Giving money to foreigners and a few wealthy rail travellers but taking it from children and the elderly! In my opinion it changed the election campaign. No wonder Labour sounded attractive.
papajuliet is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:19
  #10315 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 77
Posts: 1,866
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Maybe the relatively large over 65 percentage was related to the ill-thought-through social care policies of the Conservatives.
Yet the detail of the proposal was that the current figure of 23,250 (at present, people with assets of more than 23,250, often including the value of their home, do not get any help in paying for full-time care) was replaced by a pledge that care costs could be deducted from assets down to the value of 100,000.
Previous proposals to set a cap of 35,000 or 75,000 on care costs were left out of the manifesto.

At a recent husting, the other candidates volunteered that the subject of social care needed to be tackled on an all-party basis.
TM should have kept schtum on the subject.

Likewise, announcing ending the triple lock was only going to alienate the pensioners and those approaching retirement.

In my case (as with the referendum), my single vote would have had no effect in a constituency where the sitting candidate increased his share of the vote from 52% in 2015 to 54% on a 75% turnout (71.5% in 2015).
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:19
  #10316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
A thought occurs to me.

Suppose Theresa May had conceded. Accepted that the Conservatives had lost their majority and the confidence of the electorate. And graciously acknowledged that Labour, under Corbyn, had enthused many people previously cynical and disengaged from the political process.

And then suppose that she had informed HM the Q that she was unable to form a government and would give other parties a chance to form a workable coalition.

And then just step back and let them get on with it. Let Mr Corbyn have a crack, as he requested, at governing as head of a 'progressive' coalition.....

One wonders how long his honeymoon would last?
It's a lovely thought. There would be a major implosion within a few weeks, as the SNP forced him to accept another Scottish referendum, his non-existent majority would mean that none of his manifesto pledges would get through and the great left wing progressive experiment would fail, not to be resurrected for another 30 or 40 years................
VP959 is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:04
  #10317 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Is it not time for the Chief of the Defence Staff to mount a coup and take over the country ?

Just a thought .... the Tower beckons !
 
Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:04
  #10318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 906
Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Because that could turn out to be the 3rd monumentally stupid decision the Tories will have made in 2 years. Because... the precedent is set for breaking the 5 year rule, "To allow the electorate to give Labour a full mandate..." And if they won, then holy crap, Batman!
I hear what you're saying. But trying to run a minority government with a lame duck PM is also a risk.

Part of my logic is that by giving Corbyn the opportunity he has asked for, he might actually be shown up. Right now, he's the man of the moment, but will he still be after struggling to assemble an unwieldy multi-party coalition with all the compromises that would involve? He may be an impressive campaigner, but I'm not convinced he's much of a leader and he might just be shown up if he's put on the spot.
Andy_S is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:08
  #10319 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,142
Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
Age breakdown of Labour vote

18-24 9%
25-34 19%
35-44 20%
45-54 18%
55-64 18%
65+ 16%
Apologies to Jetex Jim, who has already mentioned this, but, a quick search has failed to produce any data that corroborates the above.

Maybe I was looking at the wrong sources of course.....however, possibly the figures were contrived to appeal to JB readers based on wishful thinking.

A reputable source and link should therefore prove an easy answer to the query.

And of course, you might have thought those on here who have such an impeccable scientific background would have questioned the veracity of the data immediately.....strangely enough however, bland acceptance turns out to be the case.

Any of you chaps thinking of putting yourselves forward for the two recent sits.vacant that have suddenly arisen ?

" Conventional wisdom seems to be that young people start of with idealistic left wing views, and that we shift right as we age. That might be partly true, given the smaller percentage of over 65s that voted Labour, but it's not much of a shift. Maybe the relatively large over 65 percentage was related to the ill-thought-through social care policies of the Conservatives

Never having been one to subscribe to conventional wisdom, or for that matter social convention in some areas of my life, I can cheerfully say I voted Labour due to an inherent detestation of Tory politics, Tory politicians ( except the few decent ones, rare though they are they do exist ) and the prospect of a thinly disguised autocratic and destabilising regime under the not so talented Theresa for the next five years.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Jun 2017 at 18:28.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:26
  #10320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lincoln
Age: 69
Posts: 463
All I have found is these two and have not the time/inclination to work it out, I will leave that to someone better able to extrapolate the data:

https://www.ft.com/content/dac3a3b2-...af89b?mhq5j=e3

Although this one was from April 25th:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/25...iding-britain/

Bit of info here:

Reality Check: Has there been a surge in youth turnout? - BBC News
Exrigger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.