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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 12th Jun 2017, 08:10
  #10221 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Funny though this is, the above trueism does reflect where PM TM is today. The Tory Party is coming to the realisation that they let her down more than she let them down. TM could have 5 years learning to be a colegiate polititian. There may, in time, be a change of leadership but it will be the Party that approves it not Borris. He is in line supporting the PM.

The DUP are not the only minority. The coalition is within the party itself and that requires a +4 majority each time there is a vote. TM is now free to pick and choose or drop anything in the Queens Speech that will get through. She will not be doing this alone. She will not be doing this with inappropriate advisors - they are gone. The Tory Party have had practice working as a coalition very recently.

In the same way that Jeremy Corbyn has learnt to be a leader. 'Mr Zen' has taken a while to learn how. Socialist idealism is 'new' to the young. Like him, TM and the Tory Party will not be running it as they did.

Labour has lost a 3rd election. They have plenty of time to come to terms with that. TM has just won one. The Conservatives are slowly comings to terms with this. The how is for historians. Time to move on as TM has, like JC, to learn how to get along and play nicely with others.

So where now? The how/if of Brexit is the next issue on the agenda. Running the country is a very close second.

I predict that Theresa May will be around for a while and go down as the Brexit Prime Minister. She will not be ousted. Whether that means the UK leaves the EU or not remains to be seen, but with my first prediction is a second. There will now be a another Referendum on Brexit. Because TM has, like it or not, a new blank page to work from. But one thing is for sure .... she will not be working alone. The 'submarine' has surfaced.
We have already handed in our notice to the EU and we are leaving, both of the major parties agree on that. There will be no second referendum.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 08:43
  #10222 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Shadow Trade Secretary just on Sky confirming that it is Labour policy that we are leaving both the EU and the EU single/internal market - but want a tarrif-free FTA.Which is what everyone else wants as well.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 08:46
  #10223 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vctenderness View Post
The liberal left media are in a frenzy demonising the DUP.
The SDLP, Labours sister party in NI are anti-abortion. Some of their councillors have even been harassing women outside abortion clinics.

Another inconvenient fact for the Left.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 09:15
  #10224 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
That could be 'news' to all the young people who Corbyn got out to vote
The 'young' came out to vote because they were promised 'free stuff'. Them voting had sweet FA to do with political motivation.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 09:30
  #10225 (permalink)  
 
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And depending on how well they do for wages, or not, some of that stuff is already 'free'.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:01
  #10226 (permalink)  
 
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irrespective of ones position on the EU soft hard or another vote the Conservative party has shot us in the foot by supporting a woman who turned out to be utterly useless at everything she has touched and demonstrated it on global TV. She has no credibilty at all and Macron and Merkel (funny how they are all letter Ms) will run circles round her not only damaging exit negotiations but also our credibility as a trading partner. She has also damaged the Tory party who it seems cannot identify anyone better than someone who has plaid the worst political game in living memory.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:13
  #10227 (permalink)  
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She has no credibilty at all and Macron and Merkel (funny how they are all letter Ms) will run circles round her
She doesn't conduct the negotiations. The EU was most explicit that eurocrat/civil servants conduct the detailed negotiations whilst the appointed negotiators on each side meet for 1 week a month to provide direction and then approval of progress. On the UK side that is David Davis as SoS for Exiting the European Union and his departmental civil servants.

Department for Exiting the European Union: Senior Management Team
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:27
  #10228 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
irrespective of ones position on the EU soft hard or another vote the Conservative party has shot us in the foot by supporting a woman who turned out to be utterly useless at everything she has touched and demonstrated it on global TV. She has no credibilty at all and Macron and Merkel (funny how they are all letter Ms) will run circles round her not only damaging exit negotiations but also our credibility as a trading partner. She has also damaged the Tory party who it seems cannot identify anyone better than someone who has plaid the worst political game in living memory.
They are, to borrow a phrase, all in it together.

It was rumoured there would be a leadership challenge if Mrs May didn't sack her two key advisers.

Whether this was true or not, conveniently they resigned.

There are rumblings of some backbenchers saying Mrs May should share the responsibility, for accepting the bad advice.

But on top of that, when it comes to it, the decision to call the election was endorsed by the Cabinet.

For now, they need to keep in line, but it seems to be widely believed Mrs May can't lead the party at the next election, and yes it does beg questions about strategy for negotiation with the EU.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:32
  #10229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
The 'young' came out to vote because they were promised 'free stuff'. Them voting had sweet FA to do with political motivation.
By that logic, had the Tories done something softer on tuition fees, they'd have a whopping majority. Are you saying they were too principled to try and lead the young up the garden path just for power? I have a bad back at the mo, the laghing would hurt!

That said, turkeys and Christmas etc. But not all the young are feckless and stupid, and to paint them as such is just wrong. We don't denigrate the young who join the services in this way- why is that? Answer: they're 'like us'.

The young made a choice.

CG
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:34
  #10230 (permalink)  
aox
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
She doesn't conduct the negotiations. The EU was most explicit that eurocrat/civil servants conduct the detailed negotiations whilst the appointed negotiators on each side meet for 1 week a month to provide direction and then approval of progress. On the UK side that is David Davis as SoS for Exiting the European Union and his departmental civil servants.

Department for Exiting the European Union: Senior Management Team
That is all true, but Mrs May did tell us she would be there at the monthly meetings, talking to all the other EU leaders about Brexit, which is rumoured to have caused some exasperation amongst various groups.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:40
  #10231 (permalink)  
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The others won't be there, they only attend for meetings of the Council. There are monthly meetings of the heads of similar ministries - e.g. Foreign affairs, defence, economics, trade etc - but not the heads of state.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 11:12
  #10232 (permalink)  
 
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The SDLP, Labours sister party in NI are anti-abortion.
As are Sinn Fein. South of the border SF failed to support a bill in the Dail which would have permitted women with foetuses with fatal abnormalities to be allowed to have an abortion. This is a cross party, cross border problem in Ireland, with the whole country stuck in the 1950s on the matter.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 11:38
  #10233 (permalink)  
 
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I also think they thought they would stay in the EU... just an idea
An amusing comment coming from an island that is not in the EU!
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 12:37
  #10234 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
I also think they thought they would stay in the EU... just an idea
Then they're about to get a rude awakening.......
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 13:17
  #10235 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I was hoping for an increased majority so, yes, I am disappointed with result. But I'm not outraged; I won't be rioting in the streets; or calling for a second election because the poor deluded voters didn't understand what they were voting for. But that might be because, although I support current ‘Conservative Party’ policies, I am a liberal who believes in our tried and tested first-past-the-post parliamentary democracy.

And I don't mind the opposition having a bit of crow – it was a good effort. But am I concerned about the direction of travel? I don't think so. Jeremy Corbyn and his coterie are like Willy Loman in Arthur Miller’s Death of a Salesman – “liked but not well-liked.”

Corbyn’s campaigning mantra was “For the Many not the few”. Well, without question, many voted for Corbyn but ‘The many did not.

Senior Labour figures opined repeatedly following Corbyn’s election as Labour leader that Labour could not win an election with Corbyn at the helm. So far they have been vindicated. If Corbyn could not win despite promising cake-and-ale for all and despite the Conservatives heroic efforts to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory with their suicidal manifesto, then when can he win.

Historians will tell future generations how a siting PM, with a working majority, called a snap election in order to increase her majority and failed spectacularly – so true. But History will record that the the Conservative Party won the June 2017 General Election.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 13:37
  #10236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
By that logic, had the Tories done something softer on tuition fees, they'd have a whopping majority. Are you saying they were too principled to try and lead the young up the garden path just for power? I have a bad back at the mo, the laghing would hurt!

That said, turkeys and Christmas etc. But not all the young are feckless and stupid, and to paint them as such is just wrong. We don't denigrate the young who join the services in this way- why is that? Answer: they're 'like us'.

The young made a choice.

CG
Let us not lose sight that tuition fees were introduced by a labour government, for which admittedly JC has subsequently apologised.

If the tories, or even labour, had said something along the lines of 'we will increase personal taxation by a penny in the £ to fund higher education for our young' then I would have gladly raised my hand enthusiastically. Pity really in my opinion.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 13:42
  #10237 (permalink)  
 
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She went into the election because she knew that her most effective Opposition sits beside her and behind her own shoulder blades. She hoped to dilute her Opposition by expanding her majority with some pliable new boys and girls.

Now she's even deeper in the shit. Her negotiating position with the Eurocrats is now totally hopeless and she's still got to find someone who will guard her back.

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Old 12th Jun 2017, 13:49
  #10238 (permalink)  
 
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Up to about 2002 (I think) the Lib Dems had a longstanding commitment to put a penny on income tax to pay for education .

Not sure how old you are yellow Triumph but, if you were old enough, did you vote Lib Dem. if so you were one of very few.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 13:59
  #10239 (permalink)  
 
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The fixation by the Left on university tuition fees really amuses me. Universities are effectively the 'ultimate grammar school' in concept: they are selective and the selection is entirely based on ability. Yet the Left want the taxpayer, eg. bus drivers, care workers, etc., etc. to pay the fees for those who want to enjoy this expensive and elite level of education. That doesn't 'square up' with Left general principles against elitism. Oh, I forgot, some are 'more equal'...
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 14:07
  #10240 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post
Up to about 2002 (I think) the Lib Dems had a longstanding commitment to put a penny on income tax to pay for education .

Not sure how old you are yellow Triumph but, if you were old enough, did you vote Lib Dem. if so you were one of very few.
I'm old enough to be drawing a pension, I voted conservative. I am in fact a life long labour supporter but decided in 1997 that Tony Blair was not the sort of man I wanted in charge because it was clear to me that labour would head off in a different direction. I have never voted for them since.

You might reasonably say that surely JC is taking the Labour party back to what it was pre-1997 and why would I not vote for him now? The answer to that is that I think JC is a dangerous crackpot - with our money, and with our national defence (for that read Nuclear deterrent).

I believe now, more than ever, the country's leaders need to prioritise brexit as priorities 1, 2 & 3, we can work everything out later with the possible exception of keeping the population safe from terrorist attacks and the like. Just my opinion and other opinions, even completely diametrically opposed to mine, are of course just as valid and should be treated with respect.
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