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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 6th Jun 2017, 14:36
  #9781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
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Suspect a lot depends on whether younger voters turn out to vote. Analysis of polls suggest that young voters are not impressed with Mrs May (and attempts to portray Corbyn as evil have backfired - he's hideously misguided but not evil). Ditto, younger voters don't see Corbyn as toxic, in the way many of us with more candles on our birthday cake do.
But older voters tend to turn out and younger ones much less so - will it be different this time?
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 14:53
  #9782 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Oh really? Well, here's another uncomfortable fact for those who go on about "Tory cuts". Who can forget (although the Labourites may want to) Liam Byrnes infamous "theres no money left" note he wrote for the Treasury incumbents. He tried to dismiss it as a joke, but it was probably the only honest thing said by anyone in the last Labour government.

And the fools want to let them repeat the exercise
Government has sufficient money, we are the fifth (?) largest economy in the world. Overall we live in a land of plenty, a few at the top have excess, and a proportion at the bottom do not have enough. Money is wasted on Trident, a weapon system that were it ever used ( I believe it never will be) would contaminate a large area of our planet. Money is found for HS2, an unnecessary vanity project used to enhance the reputations of a few politicians. Remember the "banking crisis": the bankers messed up and held out their hands: government found the money.

So don't say there is NO MONEY, there is enough we just have to use it more wisely to benefit all society not.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:03
  #9783 (permalink)  
 
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Big Brother has started this week so if something of note happens in there on Wednesday evening social media will be awash with the UK's youth debating the pro's and con's of something that is important to them as opposed to what is going on around them in the country.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:11
  #9784 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Government has sufficient money, we are the fifth (?) largest economy in the world. Overall we live in a land of plenty, a few at the top have excess, and a proportion at the bottom do not have enough. Money is wasted on Trident, a weapon system that were it ever used ( I believe it never will be) would contaminate a large area of our planet. Money is found for HS2, an unnecessary vanity project used to enhance the reputations of a few politicians. Remember the "banking crisis": the bankers messed up and held out their hands: government found the money.

So don't say there is NO MONEY, there is enough we just have to use it more wisely to benefit all society not.
Sadly, the government has no money, taxpayers provide the money, and we have a level of debt that exceeds that of most other EU states. Government simply cannot spend more money without either raising taxes or borrowing more from other countries. Borrowing more could have us heading for the situation of some of the basket case economies in Europe, like Greece.

It's one reason that Labour policy, as expressed in their manifesto, is deeply flawed. They seem to be proposing levels of public spending that far exceed the ability of taxpayers in the UK to fund, which means that to do everything they are promising they will need to borrow more from other countries.

In the interest of balance, the Conservative party manifesto plans don't add up that well, either, but they are not anywhere near as wide of the mark as the Labour plans.

I think we have to accept that, just as it's always been, party manifestos are not worth the paper they are written on the day after an election. The question then comes down to which party offers the prospect of the least worst government.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:19
  #9785 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Big Brother has started this week so if something of note happens in there on Wednesday evening social media will be awash with the UK's youth debating the pro's and con's of something that is important to them as opposed to what is going on around them in the country.

Yes, we live a free country. They can choose. I have no interest in BB, I choose to watch it or not. Freedom..........
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:22
  #9786 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Sadly, the government has no money, taxpayers provide the money, and we have a level of debt that exceeds that of most other EU states. Government simply cannot spend more money without either raising taxes or borrowing more from other countries. Borrowing more could have us heading for the situation of some of the basket case economies in Europe, like Greece.

It's one reason that Labour policy, as expressed in their manifesto, is deeply flawed. They seem to be proposing levels of public spending that far exceed the ability of taxpayers in the UK to fund, which means that to do everything they are promising they will need to borrow more from other countries.

In the interest of balance, the Conservative party manifesto plans don't add up that well, either, but they are not anywhere near as wide of the mark as the Labour plans.

I think we have to accept that, just as it's always been, party manifestos are not worth the paper they are written on the day after an election. The question then comes down to which party offers the prospect of the least worst government.

Funny how the money is found instantly when it is to handed over to greedy bankers. I don't buy into this "Sadly, the government has no money".
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:25
  #9787 (permalink)  
 
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Anything that features Corbyn and Abbot is going to be fatally flawed and hopefully on Thursday there are enough sensible people in the UK to not only work that out but take firm action to ensure it doesn't happen.

Ironically there probably wouldn't have been an election called if Labour had sorted themselves out and elected someone of the likes of Burnham or even, god help me for suggesting it but Ms Cooper, Chuka or the Khan.

Anyone of their 'normal' team would have had the support of the mainstream Labour supporters but no one in their right mind truly believes that Corbyn and Abbot are fit to be leading this country and you would need to be delusional to think that Thornbury is anything but a complete and utter twit.

If you vote Labour on Thursday it will not be for sound and sense based reasons, it will simply be an 'anything but the Tory's' vote which, when you boil it all down is a pretty sad state of affairs.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:26
  #9788 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie:

Diane Abbott didn't take part in the Women's Hour phone-in debate on Radio 4 this morning "because she was taken ill"!!! Maybe there's a bit more into those rumours of her being kept away from the media??!!

Originally Posted by Planemike:

or, of course, she may just have been unwell.....?? Not so much fun for the conspiracy theorists, though.
A very sudden attack of the collywobbles indeed. Photographed on the phone at Oxford Circus, within 5 minutes walk of the BBC studios, 20 minutes before she was due to be on the air.....

https://order-order.com/2017/06/06/d...s-womans-hour/

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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:31
  #9789 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Sadly, the government has no money, taxpayers provide the money, and we have a level of debt that exceeds that of Italy. Government simply cannot spend more money without either raising taxes or borrowing more from other countries. Borrowing more could have us heading for the situation of some of the basket case economies in Europe, like Greece.
The immediate cause for Britain becoming a basket case like Greece will be the collapse of the Brexit negotiations. TM has no friends in Europe. She will foolishly believe that she can intimidate Europe into a good deal for the UK. A satisfactory deal can't happen anyway because the failure of the negotiations will be systemic and not as a result of personalities. In the immediate aftermath of Brexit talks failure:

All British aircraft not covered by 1960's bilateral agreements will be grounded. (similar to volcanic ash 2010 or BA's IT failure but long term)

Airbus will shift their British production

Financial services passporting which generates huge revenue for the UK government will be terminated

Sharing of scientific research information to the UK will be stopped, significantly effecting UK research and development

The UK credit rating will continue to be cut causing higher debt repayment on lower tax revenue

Many other Catastrophic occurences

In 2 years TM will resign, she's already survived longer than I expected, the end for her is nigh though.

Britain is quickly committing suicide, sad but true.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:33
  #9790 (permalink)  
 
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Remember the late 70's,

The last time a proper labour government was in power .. not Blair.

Beer and sandwiches in No 10. Strikes galore . and Britain was a laughing stock ...

Corbyn is even further to the left than that rabble.

Simmbob
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:37
  #9791 (permalink)  
 
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We can choose: Stupid or Dangerous......Great
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:39
  #9792 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Funny how the money is found instantly when it is to handed over to greedy bankers. I don't buy into this "Sadly, the government has no money".
The money that was handed to the bankers was borrowed. Taxpayers were not asked to cough up immediately, but are having to now to service the debt. The national debt is currently increasing by around 1.4bn per week. Our interest on borrowings (a lot of which arose from Gordon Brown's ineptitude) is currently running at around 2000 per person per annum, so that is the amount of tax that needs to be collected simply to service the debt, before any taxes that are collected to do anything else.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:43
  #9793 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post

Sharing of scientific research information to the UK will be stopped, significantly effecting UK research and development
This is wholly untrue. I worked as a scientist for 36 years, and the international agreements we have are both far broader than the EU and not a specific part of the EU itself.

I know this for a fact, as I worked on research programmes with France, Italy, Germany, Australia, Canada, the USA and New Zealand during my career.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:46
  #9794 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
This is wholly untrue. I worked as a scientist for 36 years, and the international agreements we have are both far broader than the EU and not a specific part of the EU itself.

I know this for a fact, as I worked on research programmes with France, Italy, Germany, Australia, Canada, the USA and New Zealand during my career.
Well you may know it "for a fact" but there is a significant amount of concern over this issue. I guess we'll find out who is correct in summer 2019.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:53
  #9795 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
In the immediate aftermath of Brexit talks failure:

...

Airbus will shift their British production
Sheer and utter tosh!

Have you seen the 'British production' of Airbus? It will take at least a decade, if not more to 'shift'.

Just going on that alone, the rest of your assertions are most likely tosh as well.


Originally Posted by Planemike
Funny how the money is found instantly when it is to handed over to greedy bankers. I don't buy into this "Sadly, the government has no money".
The government has no money. It is all the taxpayers' money. That money 'found instantly ... to hand over to greedy bankers' was at the expense of your children's children's (and probably also their children's) future. And those 'greedy bankers' started off as Northern Rock which was foolishly saved because it was based in a Labour heartland. After that foolish precedent had been set it was easy for those Scottish banks (barring Clydesdale) putting their hands out for the same. And why did the banks fall over? Because they had been under the oversight of that 'prudent' Labour Chancellor, Broon.

Don't ever let Labour near the levers of power again, unless you want everyone to end up poor. All socialist societies always keep everyone 'equal' by ensuring that everyone is poor. Everyone, that is, except for those animals who are more equal. Funny old thing, but there's been a live reading of Orwell today. There should be a live reading or Animal Farm on Wednesday evening (just before his other 'spin off' Big Brother!).
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:56
  #9796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post
Well you may know it "for a fact" but there is a significant amount of concern over this issue. I guess we'll find out who is correct in summer 2019.
I seem to recall last June that there was a 'significant amount of concern' that we would have to have to have an emergency budget, suffer an immediate recession, collapse of the housing market, collapse of the NHS and cut in pensions.

As those Project Fear 'promises' were found to be completely without substance why are you so certain that any of the new Project Fear predictions you list are actually going to come to fruition?
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 15:59
  #9797 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Sheer and utter tosh!

Have you seen the 'British production' of Airbus? It will take at least a decade, if not more to 'shift'.

Just going on that alone, the rest of your assertions are most likely tosh as well

My assertions may or may not be Tosh, you certainly have no idea, neither do I. They are however a very significant risk. It's like the banking collapse of 2008, everybody has bits and pieces of the puzzle but nobody has the full picture.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 16:06
  #9798 (permalink)  
 
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I have seen just some of the British Airbus production. That gives me a clear idea that it could not be 'immediate'. Your assertions are baseless. Or in other words, tosh.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 16:06
  #9799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
I seem to recall last June that there was a 'significant amount of concern' that we would have to have to have an emergency budget, suffer an immediate recession, collapse of the housing market, collapse of the NHS and cut in pensions.

As those Project Fear 'promises' were found to be completely without substance why are you so certain that any of the new Project Fear predictions you list are actually going to come to fruition?

I would never have bought into the fact that the world would end the day after the referendum. I do buy into a massive recession beginning the day after we drop off the cliff.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 16:12
  #9800 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
I have seen just some of the British Airbus production. That gives me a clear idea that it could not be 'immediate'. Your assertions are baseless. Or in other words, tosh.
I think that you are naive and are in for a shock.
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