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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 8th Apr 2017, 10:05
  #8401 (permalink)  
 
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You mean Labour are now as dead as the LibDems?
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 10:09
  #8402 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Not, however, bright enough to appreciate that these days it doesn't cut much ice to try to claim that your anti-Semitic views aren't actually anti-Semitic, just anti-Zionist.


I think he is suffering to some extent from being singled out as a proxy to represent the entire anti-Semitic faction within the Labour party, some of whom may well not be as bright or well educated as Livingstone. It's just one of several internal squabbles they've got going at the moment, along with the one between the Trots and the anti-Corbyn faction. (And, in some parts of the Labour party, the one between the modernisers/feminists/whatever you want to call them and the faction that believes that women belong in the bedroom and the kitchen, and certainly not in the council chamber or on the union management committee.)
I agree, there has always been an internal tension within labour between the hard-nosed realists and the very left-leaning idealists, but we're now seeing that come to the surface to a greater degree than it has in the past.

I suspect the decline in the power of the trade unions has a fair bit to do with the current situation, with the internal balance of power shifting as a consequence.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 11:02
  #8403 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Got to love Corbyn - having already got into the position of having 80% of his MPs not willing to serve in his shadow cabinet - he's now publicly disagreeing with those that do - including his deputy leader. Still a rebel against official party policy after all these years.....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...tack-l9mxb7fnh

Labour faced another day of turmoil after Jeremy Corbyn condemned the missile strikes in Syria to the disgust of many of his parliamentary colleagues.

The party leader warned that President Trump’s decision to take military action risked escalating a conflict that had already left hundreds of thousands of people dead. His statement ignored the views of his shadow defence secretary, Nia Griffith, and clashed with Tom Watson, his deputy, as he called on Theresa May to “urge restraint” on Mr Trump...... A number of Labour MPs, including the former leadership contender Mary Creagh, John Woodcock and Peter Kyle, also indicated their support for the US action, underlining the depth of Labour’s divisions on foreign affairs.

Mr Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Stop the War Coalition and an opponent of US military action abroad, and his opposition to military action in Syria and elsewhere has caused some of the biggest tensions in the party.

At 11.18am, nearly three and a half hours after the Lib Dems’ support for the action, Mr Corbyn said: “The US missile attack on a Syrian government airbase risks escalating the war in Syria still further. Tuesday’s horrific chemical attack was a war crime which requires urgent independent UN investigation and those responsible must be held to account. But unilateral military action without legal authorisation or independent verification risks intensifying a multisided conflict that has already killed hundreds of thousands of people.”

Michael Dugher, the former shadow cabinet minister, tweeted his disdain. One senior Labour figure called the statement “appalling”......

The statement contrasted with that of his deputy, Mr Watson, who told the Birmingham Mail that the strikes ordered by Mr Trump “appear to be a direct and proportionate response” to the Syrian regime’s use of chemical weapons, echoing the response of Downing Street. He added: “Indiscriminate chemical weapons attacks on civilians can never be tolerated and must have consequences. It’s clear from the nerve gas attack in Khan Sheikhoun this week that President Assad had retained a chemical weapons capability, contrary to what was agreed in 2013.”

Allies of Ms Griffith denied that she would resign despite privately supporting the strike.......

One critic, the former shadow cabinet minister Michael Dugher, tweeted: “Stop criticising Corbyn’s slow response: it takes time for Seumas [Milne, Labour’s strategy and communications director] to run the draft statement by the Kremlin, Stop the War + the Morning Star.”

Mr Corbyn’s office said that he would not be attending the Stop the War demonstration outside Downing Street last night.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 11:17
  #8404 (permalink)  
 
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I noticed that there seemed to be only two (reported - make of that what you will) outspoken voices against the attack on a Syrian airfield. One was Russia, the other was Corbyn..................
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 11:42
  #8405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I noticed that there seemed to be only two (reported - make of that what you will) outspoken voices against the attack on a Syrian airfield. One was Russia, the other was Corbyn..................
The view of my Twitter feed is that the delay in Corbyn's response was because he had to get it approved by Putin first ...
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 18:53
  #8406 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly, we need to have more of these outspoken voices. It is depressing when you have the USA claiming Assad broke international law, then go on to do exactly the same, breaking international law. By all accounts, the raid wasn't as successful as claimed either, with a UK based Syrian opposition group claiming that 2 Syrian jets took off from the base this morning.
I have noticed the comments/explanations from experts re the possibility of the Sarin gas having been an ISIS stockpile which was hit by a conventional bomb. The experts say it can't have happened as the Sarin would have been destroyed by the explosion.
I understand that and have no argument with it.
How did the Sarin then survive being loaded into a bomb, dropped from an aircraft and exploded in the town without destroying the gas?
Or did the Syrian air force fly over the town with a huge Right Guard can, spraying the aerosol?
And while we are about it, what is all the fuss about so-called "barrel bombs" ? Surely, if something full of explosives is dropped from an aircraft onto people, houses etc, it hardly matters whether it came in a barrel or a MacDonalds paper bag. It is still nasty.
Is it a class thing? A barrel bomb would presumably cost very little to make whereas a Tomahawk costs in excess of $1Million and so is much more up-market than a barrel bomb!
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 20:42
  #8407 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I have noticed the comments/explanations from experts re the possibility of the Sarin gas having been an ISIS stockpile which was hit by a conventional bomb. The experts say it can't have happened as the Sarin would have been destroyed by the explosion.
I understand that and have no argument with it.
How did the Sarin then survive being loaded into a bomb, dropped from an aircraft and exploded in the town without destroying the gas?
Or did the Syrian air force fly over the town with a huge Right Guard can, spraying the aerosol?
The major problem with trying to deploy Sarin, VX etc is, as said before, getting the agent into the air as a well-dispersed aerosol, without elevating it's temperature to the point where it either decomposes from heat or evaporates and so dissipates before it reaches any targets.

If you put the stuff in a non-explosive shell, bomb or rocket case, as you might use to deliver something like sulphur mustard or chlorine, then all that happens is that you get a very, very localised effect, with large droplets that hit the ground and then decompose or evaporate. Sarin has an evaporation rate that is similar to water, so it just doesn't stay around long in the sort of conditions in Syria, in fact the only reliable way to detect it's been used is to trace it's products of decomposition.

So, to deliver an agent of this category effectively, you need a mechanism that will turn the payload into a very fine aerosol. Clearly this needs energy, but with a very modest temperature increase. There are obviously ways of doing this, but the technology is more sophisticated than the sort of backyard workshop stuff that the rebels have access to.

FWIW, developing effective dispersal systems was one of the biggest challenges in CW, before we agreed to cease doing it. At the time we stopped work on CW we were still struggling to come up with effective deployment mechanisms.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 23:06
  #8408 (permalink)  
 
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Poor kids are fat?

'Poor children are overweight' - Emily Thornberry defends free school meal plan - BBC News

just barking feckin mad.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 09:12
  #8409 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Seldom, it's absolutely true in my experience (Head, 19 years, 4 schools). My 'proper' school, of 17 years, was in a better off area, whilst all the others were in poor areas. There were far mor obese and overweight kids in the latter.Now, whether that's due to shit diet or shit purchasing power in poor homes...

Free school meals: different argument.

CG
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 09:49
  #8410 (permalink)  
 
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It's her crazy daft assertion that free school meals are going to cure the fat kids problem, somehow 1 main meal a day is going to be a life/game changer. The woman is a bloody idiot.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 09:55
  #8411 (permalink)  
 
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Ok mate, that's me on the wrong tack...

CG

edited to note that the poorest kids are already on FSM
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 10:13
  #8412 (permalink)  
 
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Around 20% of parents with children in fee paying schools say they would have to put theirs into state schools if Vat was levied. This would not only put further financial pressure on local authorities, the councils would have to pay for even more free meals for those extra children.

There is also the question of all those Labour politicians with children in private education, from MPs such as Abbott and heads of local authorities. The comrades would no doubt find a way to get the taxpayer to continue funding them.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 10:34
  #8413 (permalink)  
 
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Thornberry is more than a little overweight herself is she not? Too much champers and port? Too much foie gras?
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 11:24
  #8414 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Thornberry is more than a little overweight herself is she not? Too much champers and port? Too much foie gras?
I don't know about that, but have you noticed in the last few months that she will appear on any tv programme and speak on just about any topic?

It's almost as thought she's positioning herself for something ...
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 11:40
  #8415 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
It's almost as thought she's positioning herself for something ...
First in the queue for the buffet?
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 11:40
  #8416 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I don't know about that, but have you noticed in the last few months that she will appear on any tv programme and speak on just about any topic?

It's almost as thought she's positioning herself for something ...
It's quite simple really. Nobody else is prepared to stick their head above the parapet. Rather than positioning herself she is provably sacrificing herself because when Jezza bites the dust nobody closely connected with the daft old fart will be in with a shout.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 13:45
  #8417 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
First in the queue for the buffet?
Nope, the trough.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 13:45
  #8418 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post

Yes - it is barking, because poor kids already get free school meals.


All this proposal does is give free meals to the offspring of parents who can afford to pay themselves..
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 14:39
  #8419 (permalink)  
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When were 'Free School Meals' introduced?

In 1944, the United Kingdom required local authorities to provide school dinners that were consistent with legal nutritional requirements. The government paid the full cost of school meals in 1947.
I started school in 1949. There were certainly 'undernourished' (and poorly-clothed) children in my class - right up until 1955 (when we 'privileged' children went our way to grammar school and the 'poor' went to secondary modern).
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 14:44
  #8420 (permalink)  
 
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My experience of grammar School selection was that the 11+ was **** all to do with income and everything to do with intelligence. I failed it and went to the local Comp and my younger brother passed it and went to Grammar School and plenty of others on our council estate did exactly the same.
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