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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 21st Dec 2016, 09:05
  #7741 (permalink)  
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" Whilst I know that UKIP are a convenient smokescreen for the left and are very easy lampoon material I do however think that if my party of choice were in such an utter utter state of laughable disarray and are quite likely to come in 3rd behind the Lib Dems in many places I might just be keeping my head down on the politics front for a bit "

You probably would......
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 09:24
  #7742 (permalink)  
 
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Well then rather than continually doing the tangental thing on an almost daily basis give us the 'big up' for the Labour party, tell us how you see Jezza and Co turning the ship around.

I am sure your rapier like insight into the political world will enlighten us all as to where we are currently not understanding.

Please feel free to point where in their 97 to 2010 tenure Labour took everyone out of poverty, where the rich were forced to give to the poor and inequality was banished for generations to come.

Please also feel free to omit the inconvenient parts including, food banks, zero hours contracts, pension funds, gold reserves, dodgy dossiers, David Kelly, Iraq wars and the final flourish of the 'All the money is gone' note.

While you are at it you could maybe give us an insight to to Teflon Tone who rather quick thinkingly saw the inevitable and jumped ship early leaving a clearly floundering power crazy Broon out of his depth to eventually carry the can.

Or you could just stick with the easy targets each day as designated by the Guardian, your call of course but is it going to be conviction or the same old same old?
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 10:42
  #7743 (permalink)  
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I could, almost, feel flattered that you choose to use a reference to "rapier like insight" ( plagiarism generally being illustrative of the lack any form of original thought ) given your own modest claim to be more astute than the rest of us in this respect..,,but, as Sgt Wilson may have said, with regard to your own offerings.. " you can be terribly precocious for somebody who has led such a sheltered life "

However, and this may prove somewhat complex with regard to your query about Labour and poverty.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/20...nd-inequality/

As for a party in disarray, true, at present the Labour party is not functioning as an effective opposition party, but, this can and will change.

Equally, your beloved Tory party are far from harmonious and indeed, once the not so little matter of your equally beloved, or rather infatuated obsession, with Brexit, becomes prominent in the lives of those of us who have fiscal constraints, which excludes yourself as we know, but does include several million others in the UK, then the reality of their policies will become their demise.

This probably won't be at the next election you will be delighted to learn, so you can continue basking under the safe umbrella of a Tory dictatorship, allied to draconian social engineering, for a few years yet.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 10:47
  #7744 (permalink)  
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As for a party in disarray, true, at present the Labour party is not functioning as an effective opposition party, but, this can and will change.
Indeed - there being a strong possibility that after the next election Labour will no longer have enough MPs to be considered the party of opposition........
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 10:50
  #7745 (permalink)  
 
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tell us how you see Jezza and Co turning the ship around.
In British politics, what usually happens is that the party out front starts to screw up, effectively turning their own ship around and steaming toward the erstwhile sinking opposition. That's how the gap will close- Labour don't need to 'catch up'.

CG
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 10:52
  #7746 (permalink)  
 
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I'd take Tory social engineering over enforced cultural enrichment the left have forced upon Sweden & Germany. The poorest in those countries are the ones who suffer most. We have record employment and growth which is what we need to protect the most vulnerable in society.

**Awaits Guardian link**
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 11:30
  #7747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
In British politics, what usually happens is that the party out front starts to screw up, effectively turning their own ship around and steaming toward the erstwhile sinking opposition. That's how the gap will close- Labour don't need to 'catch up'.
Are you suggesting that all Labour have to do is do nothing and eventually the political tide will turn in their favour?

They have to stop being a laughing stock first.

I’m afraid I’m with ORAC on this one. If the Tory ship does go into reverse, chances are the Labour ship will have sunk beneath the waves by the time the Tories have steamed back that far.

Last edited by Andy_S; 21st Dec 2016 at 11:55.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 11:49
  #7748 (permalink)  
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Labour are adrift and being attacked from 3 sides.

The Conservatives under May are going back to a Ted Heath "Middle England" pre-Thatcher party and will get the votes in the centre from those who think Corbyn et al are too left wing.

The Lib-Dems are going from the Remain voters, aka Richmond Park, and will take the seats in the southern metropoli with the voters who know Corbyn is really a Brexit supporter and Labour half-hearted.

Under their new leader UKIP will oust them from the traditional Labour northern seats where Brexit has its core.

With the Conservatives having passed Labour as the second party in Scotland they have no remaining core.

The changing social cleavages in the UK have left them high and dry - and their internal divisions leave them unable to change enough to secure a vote based on the new ones. The left wing will finish seizing the tiller to find the waves coming over the gunwales.......
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 11:58
  #7749 (permalink)  
 
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Are you suggesting that all Labour have to do is do nothing and eventually the political tide will turn in their favour?
No. I am saying that over time, rifts will appear in the Tory facade. That will close the gap. They will make more cuts affecting the poorest more. That will close the gap If Labour shed Jezza with 2 years to go, the gap will be very small.

CG
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 12:22
  #7750 (permalink)  
 
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I think there are already cracks in the Tory façade, but there are even bigger ones in Labours.

I remember hearing ad-infinitum after the Tory led coalition was formed in 2010 how the electorate would be so appalled by the cruelty of “ideologically driven” Tory austerity that support for them would collapse. We all know what happened 5 years later. But even if what you say is true, there’s no certainty that Labour will be the beneficiaries. Those votes might very well go to UKIP or a recovering Lib Dem party.

I think it’s clear that Jezza isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. One attempt to unseat him has already failed miserably. It seems almost certain that he will lead Labour into the next election. And I suspect that even if he steps down thereafter, the makeup of the PLP will have moved in his direction.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 13:39
  #7751 (permalink)  
 
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The fact that supposedly intelligent folk still believe that Labour are going to make some miraculous comeback is in itself absolutely laughable. It took BLiar turning Labour into almost Tory Lite in 97 to get them into power and anyone looking back on that 13 years will not have the fondest of memories on oh so many counts.

They are currently in an absolute death spiral and even with a change of leadership nothing short of a total massive swerve to the right re brand is ever going to find enough gullible folk out there to ever elect their like again.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 13:46
  #7752 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like someone else agrees the future is looking rather bleak

Labour MP Jamie Reed quitting Parliament - BBC News
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 14:50
  #7753 (permalink)  
 
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The fact that supposedly intelligent folk still believe that Labour are going to make some miraculous comeback is in itself absolutely laughable.
Seldom, if that was pointed at me, then it's laughable that a supposedly intelligent person thought I was suggesting what you say. I have no idea what the gap is now, and i don't care- but it'll be closer when the election comes. I'm no socialist, but one-party states don't have a great track record.

CG
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 16:49
  #7754 (permalink)  
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"shows a real lack of political comprehension"

Some time later.....an exemplification follows.....

" The fact that supposedly intelligent folk still believe that Labour are going to make some miraculous comeback is in itself absolutely laughable. It took BLiar turning Labour into almost Tory Lite in 97 to get them into power and anyone looking back on that 13 years will not have the fondest of memories on oh so many counts.

They are currently in an absolute death spiral and even with a change of leadership nothing short of a total massive swerve to the right re brand is ever going to find enough gullible folk out there to ever elect their like again


It's always, almost, amusing when you deign to offer us your attempts to be cosmopolitan with the use of the word "folks".....and remind us all that you are the only person smart enough, again a descriptive term you seem to think is applicable, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, when enlightening us all as to the political future of the UK.

I have very fond memories of the first two Labour terms in office, but, as I have said quite openly, the third term was a term too far.

The Tory party will implode in the same manner, if not even more so given their fanatical obsession with retaining power and damaging the voters lives in equal measure.....that is, of course, if Saint Theresa doesn't do so prior to a third term with her Brexit negotiations.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 21st Dec 2016 at 17:07.
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Old 21st Dec 2016, 17:01
  #7755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Seldom, if that was pointed at me, then it's laughable that a supposedly intelligent person thought I was suggesting what you say. I have no idea what the gap is now, and i don't care- but it'll be closer when the election comes. I'm no socialist, but one-party states don't have a great track record.

CG
It wasn't and I agree one party states are not a great idea, just a question of whether Lib Dem or a Liabour spin off will be that opposition because in its current format Liabour are nowt but road kill.
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Old 22nd Dec 2016, 19:06
  #7756 (permalink)  
 
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Sneaky!
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Old 22nd Dec 2016, 20:32
  #7757 (permalink)  
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Fight! Fight!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...at-kate-osamor

A Labour party plan that would save Jeremy Corbyn’s seat, which is threatened by boundary changes, has resulted in a furious reaction from one of the leader’s closest allies whose own constituency is to be split into three under the proposals.

Kate Osamor, the shadow cabinet minister for international aid, surprised colleagues by turning up at a public meeting at Havering town hall to oppose her own party’s submission on the changes, the Guardian can reveal. The MP said she was unhappy that Labour was suggesting her own constituency of Edmonton, which was barely changed in the original proposals from the Boundary Commission, should be broken up.

A leaked document outlining Labour’s response to the boundary changes shows that the central aim is to protect Corbyn’s Islington North seat after the initial proposals divided it up. The boundary commission has one chunk of Islington North going into a new constituency of Finsbury Park and Stoke Newington, while another slice moves into Diane Abbott’s Hackney seat. The party’s counter-proposal keeps the constituency intact but instead hits other MPs, including Osamor and David Lammy, who represents Tottenham.

The submission admits there is an issue, saying: “We recognise that these proposals divide communities in Edmonton and Tottenham, as well as Crouch End from Hornsey and Highgate. On balance, however, we believe that the consequence of the commission’s proposal to include part of Hackney in a seat with part of Islington is that much more disruptive proposals are made in the rest of north London which break ties more seriously.”

One person present at the hearing told the Guardian that Labour politicians there were surprised to see Osamor turn up to tell a panel that she was unhappy about the plans and would instead back Lammy, who has argued that his community is hundreds of years old and should not be split up. He has written to the commission to say its initial proposals “maintain the integrity of the current constituency boundaries”, and should be maintained over Labour’s proposals. The MP wrote a long letter in which he claimed that dividing Tottenham would be risky in terms of cohesion and gang activity, and even included poetry that was 700 years old to underline the “separate, independent and distinct nature of Tottenham”.

A source in the Labour party said: “It’s so obvious the the party is putting leaving Jeremy’s seat unchanged above every single other consideration. Everyone knows he can just take his pick of whatever Islington seats the boundary commission come up with. Splitting Tottenham is a total nonsense, and Kate knows that as well as anyone.”

It is understood that Osamor was sympathetic to the idea of protecting Corbyn but was furious about the way that the party put it into action - complaining to the individual in charge of the submission for the party. She hoped that a number of colleagues could instead all take a smaller hit in order to make the plans work. The person present at the hearing said Osamor appeared particularly upset about her Labour colleague, Joan Ryan, who represents Enfield North. Osamor declined to comment when approached by the Guardian.

A Labour party spokesperson said: “As part of the Boundary Commission’s consultation process, the Labour party have put forward counter-proposals that better respect local community links and ties. These proposals have been agreed by the NEC after a wide-ranging consultation with local parties.”
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Old 22nd Dec 2016, 22:31
  #7758 (permalink)  
 
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It's in the Guardian hence it simply must be true, how embarrassingly inconvenient is that
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Old 23rd Dec 2016, 10:17
  #7759 (permalink)  
 
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Jezza's seat under threat? That can't be allowed to happen. He MUST be protected. For the good of the country.
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Old 23rd Dec 2016, 17:28
  #7760 (permalink)  
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Ah, Sussex by the sea......how very 1950's.

Of course, the matter of culture and ethnicity is so terribly relevant when it comes to....death by drowning......poor souls.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ure-by-council
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