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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 29th Jan 2015, 19:16
  #5381 (permalink)  
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No,the second generation are the product of mores passed on to them by the previous one.
interesting, so idleness and lack of work ethic are inherited and perpetuate, whilst the work ethic is lost instantly? Must be genetic......
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 19:36
  #5382 (permalink)  
 
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G'day, visiting from downunder
Over they years, I have formed the opinion that the government etc is there to give the people something to watch: whilst the 2% alluded to above get on with their business.
One should also consider that a Capitalist society requires a pool of unemployed to be efficient.

Marx believed the Proletariat had to develop an "ethic" separate from the ruling class ethic. History can be said to support this belief, all of the workers are locked into supporting the system, via mortgages and credit.

Cheers and Beers
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 19:38
  #5383 (permalink)  
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The closure of the collieries removed the low-denominator employers from areas of (mainly Northern) Britain.

Employment in the mines required no education, so youngsters had not sought this as their future employment had been determined guaranteed, so when this outlet for their (lack of) skills was ended, there was little incentive to look for jobs that they were not qualified for.

Whole families were out of work, and it was 'easy' to accept that the benefits that were introduced to offset the closures constituted the 'new way of life' - as they saw their elders working the system.

Why bother getting up early when you could remain in bed and then spend the afternoons and evenings with your mates down the 'club'?

There are towns still blighted by this attitude.

'Industry' (such as it is) in the area claim that they cannot get adequately-skilled recruits.

Even those with qualifications (such as degrees) cannot get a job unless they have 'experience'.

Few employers offer apprenticeships (which would have attracted the more ambitious youngsters), and without experience these people are considered 'unemployable'.

A vicious circle.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 20:36
  #5384 (permalink)  
 
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And as I recall from previous posts on here Labour shut more mines than the Tories ever did so maybe Mrs T is not the only person responsible.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 21:10
  #5385 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
And as I recall from previous posts on here Labour shut more mines than the Tories ever did so maybe Mrs T is not the only person responsible.
I thought coal mining was EVIL because Global Warming?
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 21:23
  #5386 (permalink)  
 
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I had digs in a North East ex-Colliery village whilst at Uni, and spent a fair bit of time with the ex-miners.

The local mine was closed in 1967 under Labour. 2,200 out of work.
Many colliery villages sprang up to service the mine, so 'finding other work' locally was simply impossible for the vast majority. Indeed, the closure of the mine caused a drop in employment in all the service industries around it.
Retrain for the Tyne shipyards? Oops, they shut those too in the '70s.
Railways? Beeching, and a lot less freight traffic anyway since there's no mines or shipyards.
Computers? Not invented yet.

The ex-miners were not lazy, or work-shy. I knew some who commuted daily to Yorkshire to work in the mines there.

Both main parties left it to the market to provide employment - Complete Failure. The efforts to promote business were, until Nissan, almost total failures.

By the time you get to the second generation, then you have some benefit layabouts who spend their Giro down the pub/club. By the third generation, you have a lot of scroungers.
But then, these are kids of parents who've never had a proper job, if any. It doesn't matter how hard they work at school, there are no jobs. Unless you want to join the Army or become a teacher, your career option is Benefit Scrounger.
The only option is to sell your house and move, but nobody wanted to buy your house, because there are no jobs there.
Can you rent a house elsewhere? No,not for an unskilled wage anyway.

This kind of thing is easier in North America where houses and land are cheaper, but in the UK, you're screwed.

In Canada, where major industries have closed (e.g. Maritimes coal mines), then people have upped sticks and moved to other resource areas that are expanding (e.g. BC coal or Alberta oil), but the UK doesn't have this plethora of resources, or labour mobility.

'Industry' (such as it is) in the area claim that they cannot get adequately-skilled recruits.
Are 'Industry' prepared to train or pay those recruits properly? Not on your life.

That's the same over here. Industry claims would be better phrased as "I can't get anybody to pay for their own training and accept minimum wage for a skilled job with no job security. They're not even prepared to be treated like sh!t any more! Outrageous! Bring Back Slavery!"

There's also a massive problem with HR. HR want to hire somebody who's already doing the same job with their competitors, but treat/pay them less so they can beat the competition. They are not the least bit interested in training, or taking a chance with people. Think about it. HR departments are largely women with non-technical degrees concerned primarily with their own job security (don't take any chances!), who are filtering applications from males with technical qualifications who the company wants to take chances. You couldn't have a bigger disconnect if you tried.

Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 29th Jan 2015 at 21:35.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 07:39
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That pretty much sums up my point. I left school in 1968 and,had you suggested the possibility of drawing the dole instead of working everybody would have thought you had taken leave of your senses.

I had six jobs in my first year of work. It was easy to get another,especially if like me you were adept at telling people what they wanted to hear. That first 80's generation of school leavers were different. It was perhaps a perfect storm,the emergence of a "punk" generation with anti authority attitudes combined with a government determined to put the Milton Friedman monetarist principles into operation,with the resultant clearance of low skilled jobs.

In my town we lost several large factories,long term employers in the food processing,electrical appliance production and commercial vehicle manufacture.My economics lecturer used to say that you could not have an island of Socialism within an ocean of Capitalism. I think it was also true that you cannot implement monetarist policy when your immediate competitors are not doing so.

BMW couldn't keep Rover afloat but the French car industry survived with state aid.It has to be questioned whether British industry was competing on an even playing field.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 08:40
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
That pretty much sums up my point.
Nope, your point was that Mrs Thatcher caused caused the problems you describe which is historically and factually incorrect
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 08:54
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
........the French car industry survived with state aid.It has to be questioned whether British industry was competing on an even playing field.
Probably not, but quite honestly state aid for the british car industry would probably have been throwing good money after bad.

And the French economic model has hardly been an unqualified success, has it?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 09:20
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State aid might be throwing good money after bad but the alternative was paying millions of people to do nothing. That is a double whammy because then you have people with a non work ethos too. I don't think the British car industry was necessarily a basket case. As late as the 70's the Triumph and Rover 2000 were both pretty decent nags . I always felt that there was a tendency to knock British stuff. Vauxhall sold a lots of Cavaliers and Astras, both basically Opels but good,reliable cars. I sold hundreds second hand and had very little trouble.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 07:25
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A few bits short of a bacon sandwich. If there is a God, he'll ensure that this creature does not become Britain's next PM.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 07:57
  #5392 (permalink)  
 
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I rather enjoyed Stephen Fry's take on God. That picture reminded me. I thought it was of Hugh Laurie. Actually it isn't Miliband is it? If it is what's he doing on a bus?
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 08:02
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I also enjoyed Stephen Fry's take on God. For those who haven't seen it :
Video: Watch: Stephen Fry brands God 'utterly utterly evil' - Telegraph

The picture is of Millipede on the Tube ...... it was in this rogues' gallery in this morning's Telegraph. .......
Famous faces on the underground, in pictures - Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...campaign=DM631
Ed Miliband would be a 'catastrophe' for Britain
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:19
  #5394 (permalink)  
 
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It is David Milliband in the pic not Ed.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:22
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My mistake, I read what I expected it to say, not what it said!
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:30
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A few snippets from the meeja........
Sky: What were you like when you were 18? What were your interests? What were you up to?

EM: I cared a lot about… er… the world. I was actually living in America for a time working in the media, just before going to university. I was actually an intern. I was also interested in British politics and global issues and what was happening in the world.

Sky: What did you do on a night out though? What were you interested in?

EM: What did I do on a night out? I did some things that most teenagers did, I drank a bit too much, you know, um, but I grew up in a household where you were told to care about the world…



Asked by a young voter what experience he had outside of politics Ed Miliband replied that he had worked in the Treasury.
And taught at Harvard.

Where he lectured on politics…
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:33
  #5397 (permalink)  
 
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It comforts me to know that I have not a clue who the vast majority of those apparently famous faces on the undergound are.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:40
  #5398 (permalink)  
 
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Me neither, I recognised about three. Cameron, the Queen, and Emma Bunton. Most of the others apart from Tom Hanks and Nick Clegg I'd never heard of. Happily so.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:57
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A few snippets from the meeja........

Please do not cite anything you hear on SKY as reliable. Two days ago the female presenter at breakfast time, Isabel, commented upon hearing that

"two bronze statues of men atop panthers, whose origin has long been in doubt, are now thought to be the only remaining bronze works of the Italian Renaissance master Michelangelo, a British museum announced Monday"

"they might possibly be worth something, don't you think ?" This was said with an absolutely straight face to her fellow presenter, who responded by looking at her in amazement - and changed the subject.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 09:59
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I rather enjoyed Stephen Fry's take on God.

What's the difference between Stephen Fry and God ? God doesn't think he's Stephen Fry.
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