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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 13th May 2011, 10:46
  #2461 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed it does. Expect Laws to be making laws before long.
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:55
  #2462 (permalink)  
 
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Laws did in fact repay more than he claimed

But did he get it all back? A story I read a few weeks ago claimed that all the money repaid by all MPs had been quietly given back to them by the Palace of Westminster.
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Old 13th May 2011, 12:41
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Network Rail get fined 3 million,for causing seven deaths in the Potterbar rail crash which to add insult to injury will be paid by the taxpayer,someone else should have been greeting the morning through bars on the window, and I do not mean some spear carrier way down the food chain.
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:16
  #2464 (permalink)  
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Seemingly, according to a news report last night on C4, the reason said MP has not been sent to the Headmistress / master is because he only broke Parliamentary " law "....note the " " to denote one's perceptions of the term..and not statute law or for personal gain....there is, apparently, a subtle difference which we, the great unwashed, are blissfully unware of....hence our misguded perceptions as to avarice and greed....fraud being another term of course, but not, it seems, in this case....phew !

You learn something new every day with our politicians......
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:38
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Apparently if you hand over what you have looted to your boyfriend it's ok.
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Old 15th May 2011, 10:04
  #2466 (permalink)  
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I'm quite surprised to see no mention of the Queen's visit to Ireland next week (Tues-Fri). A sitting UK monarch hasn't visited Ireland since 1911 - before Ireland was an independent country. She'll be landing at Casement air base (EIME) in SW Dublin, which was named after Sir Roger Casement; an Irish bloke who worked for the UK government in South America, was knighted in 1911 for humanitarian work, then executed for treason in 1916 after going to Germany to try to raise money and procure weapons for the Irish uprising. I wonder if they're trying to make some kind of point ...

The security measures in central Dublin will be positively Orwellian, with random stops and "state your business" questioning. I don't live or work in the city centre, so I can avoid it for the duration, thankfully. I made a joke in the "pointless" thread, about the 12 points the UK gave Ireland in the Eurovision contest meaning that the Queen is more likely to get out in one piece, but the threat is real, as Lord Mountbatten found out the hard way.
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Old 15th May 2011, 12:38
  #2467 (permalink)  
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Fist point. A person's sexuality is wholly irrelevant unless he / she is engaged in unlawful or discriminatory practices....even MP's are included here. Breaking the law however ( allegedly ) is rather different and is, in theory at least, applicable to all irrespective of their occupation....note the, ahem "in theory" inclusion for obvious reasons.

It would seem, from articles being published today that next on the list is Mr Huhne who seems to have been confused ( allegedly ) over driving a car and the associated legalities....an easy mistake to make of course and one I am sure, will duly remedy itself accordingly.

Stuckgear....alas, nice try but somewhat wide of the mark...here's a little article for your consideration.....

Democratic Audit - Are public school boys still running Britain?

You were correct about the stench of hypocrisy however... " We're all in this together " ....of course we are......and while "we" are about it, lets have a go at those on benefits who can't really defend themselves and we'll have a little adjustment to the employment laws as well.

Victorian nostalgia now being revitalised for a 21st century UK.
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Old 15th May 2011, 13:35
  #2468 (permalink)  
 
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KnC,

thanks for the link.. from the link..

Britain has now re-entered an age of elitism in which old Etonians are ruling the country once more.
The documentary offered some unsettling facts and trends to support this theory, informing us that the number of MPs educated at public schools is on the rise, and that the upper echelons of the major political parties are now beholden to Oxbridge graduates; but its message was perhaps best captured by its indelicate yet effective imagery with old footage of Harold Wilson and Edward Heath (set to T. Rexs Children of the Revolution) juxtaposed with an interview between Neil and that redoubtable Etonian caricature, Jacob Rees-Mogg MP, in which the latter ironically declared Im a man of the people. Vox populi, vox Dei.
Ah, so it's not Public School then it's one specific public school ? That smacks of something else entirely.

however, the link also cites that:

Contrary to what Neil asserted, there is no compelling evidence of a public school or Oxbridge insurgency in the Commons, or the Cabinet.
so it's just PR based on left wing (Labour) hypocrisy, considering...

Ed Mliband, Labour Leader - Oxford
(dep Leader / Intl. Develp.) Harriet Harman - Private (Aunt is a countess and cousins are entitled)
(national disgrace) the dis-Honourable tony blair (Private and while publicly decrying elitism by way of non state education, sent his progeny private)
Socialist mouthpiece Dianne Abbot - Private & Cambridge sent her progeny private, which she herself described as "indefensible" and "intellectually incoherent".
Shadow Chancellor) tubthumper Ed Balls - Private & Oxford
(Home & Women/Equality) Yvette Cooper - Oxford
(Chief Whip) Rosie Winterton - Private
(Education) Andy Burnham - Cambridge
(Health) John Healey - Cambridge
(Energy/Climate) - Meg Hillier - Private & Oxford
(Shadow Leader of the House) Hilary Benn - Private
(Transport) Maria Eagle - Oxford
(Environment, Food & Rural) Mary Creagh - Oxford
(Sec to Treasury) Angela Eagle - Oxford
(NI) Shaun Woodward - Private
(Culture Media Sport) Ivan Lewis - Private
(cabinet & Olympics) Tessa Jowel - Private
(chair) Tony Lloyd - Private
(attny Gen) Patricia Scotland - Private

so, in respect of your assertion:

Stuckgear....alas, nice try but somewhat wide of the mark...here's a little article for your consideration.....
it's right on the mark and the stench of rank hypocricy is overwhelming.

Last edited by stuckgear; 17th May 2011 at 07:10. Reason: spelling
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Old 15th May 2011, 14:15
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Only me.

Hi. Its a long time since I have posted on this thread. - I tend to loose patience with people I disagree with (I should have gone into politics).

Re the thread Yes, its a matter of fact that that Britain is always been governed by an elite; for their own benefit. And sadly that as we can now see, from the previous posts,this includes those nominally commited to "Equality of opportunity." - Labour, Post Atley - has always been profoundly defective in this respect - Socialism forget it.

Its no accident that the quarterly growth figures for France and Germany outstrip those of the UK - Look hard at the social substrate of their societies - The German tripartite model of co-operation between Government, Unions and Business interests was a post WWII structures set up by the allies; has bee very succesful. - In France it seems to me as an outsider to be more combative but still working ? -

There has to be an equivelence of access to input/and leverage in policy making and those in power must be accountable to those outside their own bailywicks of interest -"Are you reading this Dave !" - Those lists of familiar names with their associated school/University histories define all that's wrong with Britain.

You can probably guess that I'm no Oxbridge Graduate - I know that a lot of the contributers to PPRuNe have service backgrounds and I would like to see their response to my idea that the enactment in law of the "Milltary Covenent" could be viewed as a potential "carrot" to ensure the support of the Army in support of the governing elite; in the event of a sustained uprising in the UK.

OK an event of this type has been unthinkable especially in England - but as someone has said "The times they are a changing" and fast. They may be craven/dishonest and poluted by a specious self regard, but has the "bovine" disinterest in politics; of the majority, of people,affected most the the selective cuts in spending, finally provided the chimes of Nick Clegg's Alarm clock - (Yes that speech was offensive). A wake up call for fundamental reform.

CAT III

Last edited by Guest 112233; 15th May 2011 at 14:26. Reason: Spelling as usual - must get some Specs.
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Old 15th May 2011, 14:42
  #2470 (permalink)  
 
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I would like to see their response to my idea that the enactment in law of the "Milltary Covenent" could be viewed as a potential "carrot" to ensure the support of the Army in support of the governing elite; in the event of a sustained uprising in the UK.
CATIII-NDB,

of course you as all of us are, are entitled to your opinion, however i disagree with your assertion.

The states responsibility to the armed forces being enshrined in legislation is long overdue in the UK and has little to do with preventing a military coup within the UK.

The servicemen and women of this country have signed up to give the ultimate sacrifice to their country if called upon to do so, yet in many cases the country has let them down, as have politicians. The left, engaged in a profligate mis-management and mis-spending of defnse funds, yet publicly claimed to be giving the militiary exctly what they asked for, this was shown,. most pubicly, to be a lie. Legislating support for the armed forces brings public accountability to those that oversee the armed forces and should be a requirement.

Mr Cameron explained that the covenant, the state's responsibility to its Armed Forces, will be rewritten and enshrined in law for the first time.
The covenant is an informal understanding of the state's duty of care to its Armed Forces. Until now, it has been regarded as an obligation rather than a firm rule set out in legislation.
Yesterday, Mr Cameron declared that the new Government will underline its commitment to the Armed Forces by putting it into law.
A new covenant - which will include rights to prioritised NHS treatment, decent housing and education for Service families' children - is to be given legal force in a new Armed Services Bill.
Source: MoD

there has been much damage to this country some of it is irrepearable; what can be repaired will take time, if not many years, decades. There is no magic wand that anyone can wave and make it all good in an instant, change has to start somewhere and to decry any small attempt at progress is to subvert repairing the damage that is so drastically needed.
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Old 15th May 2011, 16:20
  #2471 (permalink)  
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" left wing (Labour) hypocracy,"

As far as I am aware, there is no requirement to take an oath of any sort....albeit with another p.....


Maths Examination 2011.

Candidates are required to explain which of the two figures below shows the higher percentage :

Time allowed : 4 years ( subject to change )

Conservatives 54 %.....( whatever brand name ) Labour...15%

Note: Candidates are reminded that they are not allowed to be selective when interpreting the data provided in order to justify their hypothesis.
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Old 15th May 2011, 16:33
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Maths Examination 2011.

Candidates are required to explain which of the two figures below shows the higher percentage :

Time allowed : 4 years ( subject to change )

Conservatives 54 %.....( whatever brand name ) Labour...15%

Note: Candidates are reminded that they are not allowed to be selective when interpreting the data provided in order to justify their hypothesis.
so that's just some bland non specific statement in an attempt at an argument?

out of that list (above) which is the shadow cabinet the majority benefited from an elite education, yet the left waste not a jot of opportunity in decrying the Tories for elite education. that is rank hypocrisy. or are you still going to try and dance round that fact and wail that the in doing so the left is justified in decrying something for other while benefiting from it themselves.

and as per your link, i reiterate the point from your link
Contrary to what Neil asserted, there is no compelling evidence of a public school or Oxbridge insurgency in the Commons, or the Cabinet.


So the issue of elite education has only come forth as pushed by the left, who incidentally, the leader of which attempts to gain points in parliamentary debates by keep raising as a jibe toward the Tories.

it's pathetic and those that buy the line are frankly jumping on the bandwagon, while ignoring that their very leaders have benefited from the same.


oh and by the way, before you attempt to assert any direction as my own education, i was the beneficiary [sic] of a state school education. would i have liked to had a private education? you bet, though my parents, at the time, could not have afforded it.

Last edited by stuckgear; 15th May 2011 at 16:45.
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Old 15th May 2011, 16:52
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Reply to Stuckgear

Thanks for your reply: Contary to what you might expect from the views that I hold, I have seen the cost paid by a friend, in fighting a war (The Falklands). I personally have no qualms about servicemen & women receiving help when they leave the services, i.e help in housing, building a career etc - The devil lies in the detail: Housing lists come to mind; its problematic.

One of the main points in my posting is that level of trust in our governing "elite" and the process of how they established their career's leaves their motivation ! open to question.

I respect your perspective.I think we will politely disagree. The deeper issues regarding inequality are not going away. Sadly "Politics" is now irrevelent to many people and therein the "Rot" starts - The old consensus re post WWII where politicians work for the "Good of Society" as a whole, are long since gone.

I just feel in my bones that there's a very bleak road ahead for the "have nots" - compare and contrast the outlook for those dependent on help to live their lives and the people resonsible for the Iraq disaster (all of them).

PS. I was not thinking of a "Coup" but the widespread disorganised "popular" uprising by dissimilar groupings for a variety of objectives only bound by a vague idea of what their objectives are. An old fashoned revolution, where the "Civil Power" uses the Millitary to mantain power - Think of South America. in the 70's and 80's

CAT III

Last edited by Guest 112233; 15th May 2011 at 17:04.
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Old 15th May 2011, 17:31
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CATIII,

thank you likewise for your reply, much appreciated and also constructive.

Thanks for your reply: Contary to what you might expect from the views that I hold, I have seen the cost paid by a friend, in fighting a war (The Falklands). I personally have no qualms about servicemen & women receiving help when they leave the services, i.e help in housing, building a career etc - The devil lies in the detail: Housing lists come to mind; its problematic.
yes indeed you're right, the devil does lie in the details. However, there is also the situation to consider that if such a decision were to deferred until all the details were ironed out and every stakeholder was satisfied, then realistically nothing would ever happen. In such circumstances as this the situation is constantly fluid and year in, year out new situations would arise that would perhaps be worthy of addressing in further refinement. so the likelihood that such a covenant would never actually happen.

Sadly "Politics" is now irrevelent to many people and therein the "Rot" starts - The old consensus re post WWII where politicians work for the "Good of Society" as a whole, are long since gone.
And i have to agree with you on that. we end up with so many minority groups all demanding of equal attention that it in fact pollutes the social environment. The rot for politics sets in when there beomes so much static that the message gets lost, coupled with that is the rank hypocrisy of politicans stating one thing for the populace, yet doing the complete opposite for themselves. People get turned away from politics and we see and hear so often that it doesnt matter who you vote for they're all the same. well, frankly they are not. its not in what is said, but what is done. 13 years of recent is testimony to that and the trouble that the Uk now finds itself in. the words not the actions. TB himself unfortunately bears much responsibility for the distrust in politics that the UK has, the promises, pledges, PR et al, from a snake oil salesman all turned out to be smoke and mirrors and the electorate is left facing the problems to deal with. For 13+ years the electorate bought the lies and no realises it was sold a pup. of course there's distrust towards politicians.

I just feel in my bones that there's a very bleak road ahead for the "have nots"
And your right. Dead right. The road is very bleak for the have nots, as well as for the haves and the might have had's too. The point is that this country is, well, well and truly fooked. The real problems and true picture have not been put forward publicly, they simply cannot be as that would lead to a huge loss of faith in the UK on the interantional market and mass retraction drving the UK into a worse position that Greece and Portugal combined, literally overnight. the road for the UK is bleak and that is why electoral voting is a huge responsibility, its not about partisan politics or hereditary prejudices but about a responsibility to ourselves and to our country.

I respect your perspective
.

and likewise respect yours. reasoned discussion, without prejudice and invoking political PR does more to find answers and resolution than anything else.

much appreciated.
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Old 15th May 2011, 17:33
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Just to clarify - I should have said this earlier.

The miserable failure of the Left in British politics with the exeption of the Atlley Govenment is one of the biggest desasters in the last 70 Years.

I forgot to say TB and crew are the great unspoken "Elephant in the Room"


CAT III
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Old 15th May 2011, 19:58
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l tink you have me dare, so you do.

What particular miserable failure are you talking about ?
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Old 15th May 2011, 20:27
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I tend to loose patience with people I disagree with (I should have gone into politics)
The practical reality of everyday life for most politicians in the UK is that they have to work with people they disagree with, whether of their own party or some other, for the general good. Politics is not a suitable choice of hobby for people who "tend to loose[sic] patience with people [they] disagree with".
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Old 15th May 2011, 20:36
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Reply to overun

OK we have had the NHS (Beverage a Liberal ) , The national minimum wage (Remember the wails of angst) -

The failures - The failure to establish a multipartite - structure for the developement of the economy - "The white Heat of the new industrial revolution", "In place of strife" , a decline in manufacturing industry - Wilson has better than we thought at the time, still no long lasting achevement.

North sea gas and oil - exploited in a free market way, to maximise short term returns (OK that's a hard one).The British Aerospace industry ! - The failure to cancel Concorde after the oil price hike of the seventies. Blue Steel - The failure to constructively negociate with Unions in the Nationalised Industries - leading to the winter of discontent - A gift to the right. - Reform of the house of lords ! since the '60's !

More recently - Failure to reform the Thatcherite curbs on the right to strike. The erosion of civil liberties under TB, The Iraq War. - THe Huge economic failures of NU Labour - Inequality of wealth and life expectancy.

Its getting too depressing

CAT III
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Old 15th May 2011, 21:05
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You left out the Good Friday Agreement but l`m not a nit picker.

Did you notice the bent MP back on the streets after a few weeks inside squeeling " l`m not the only one ! "

At some point we`ll have to take our streets back, the ones who claim for cat food, a choccy bar, on the tax payers teet need sacking.

Preferably in the middle of a bonfire, given the petrol soaked letter.

PS. The plan for a national health service was hijacked from the conservatives, who lost power before implementation.
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Old 15th May 2011, 22:22
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Thanks for the replies

Krystal & Gert - sorry about the spellings - Overun, your better informed than I.
I've put the dog to bed -its late and I will watch this thread a bit more in future.and the US one too - re the deterating relationship between the USA and Pakistan - and so to bed.

CAT III.
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