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Captain's LHR Security rant - LH4729/05Dec

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Captain's LHR Security rant - LH4729/05Dec

Old 5th Dec 2009, 20:12
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Captain's LHR Security rant - LH4729/05Dec

A good 30 minutes delay out of LHR today due to a late crew.

Who were delayed 45 minutes in a security line.

Here's the PA announcement from the PIC, explaining the delay and inviting passengers to voice their displeasure directly to the BAA.

The German announcement was biting, absolutely dripping with irony and with a barely concealed anger at the insolence and inefficiency of the BAA security process and their jobsworths.

That said: as a passenger being processing through Terminal 1 "K" concourse, the speed and seamlessness was stunning....
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 21:46
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LHR Term. 5 BAA Security

As I was passing through LHR Terminal 5, two days ago.. I was off duty dead heading to my work not in uniform, flying as a pax on BA. The BAA security stopped me and checked my flight bag..
His first question was, why do I have pilot's head sets in my bag, and how come I am not wearing uniform??

I told am heading to my work as a pax and no need for for uniform until I reach my destination and go on duty!!

He asked for my Security Pass?? I told him no need to wear it as am off duty and flying as a Pax!!

He told me to wait and he'll be back, before I knew it, here comes the Anti-terrorist Police and took me inside an office started to ask questions about my work. I told them I was a pilot and heading to work in a different country... They took a copy of my License, Company ID, and my passport. They told me that the BAA staff told them that I did not look like a real pilot...

Now that's what I call Security in today's BAA Airport....
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 22:08
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So glad to hear that TSA aren't the only morons.

GF
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 22:20
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Security UK is indeed mostly a national embarrassment. A self-serving empire has been created with virtually the express intention of making life unpleasant for crews to little end. As a pilot, no security need apply to me , yet in front of a 747 load of my passengers, in JFK I was progressively stripped, standing shoeless, belt removed, trousers undone, and being shouted at by some Bronx MacDonalds reject. I've had nail clippers confiscated, tubes of toothpaste and yoghurts removed with an admonishment 'not to do it again'. I've had my briefcase hunted through, and also asked why I had my headset in my bag. I've come through seething, to get on the aeroplane and check I have a steel crowbar in my 'office'. I then actually get to fly an aeroplane with anything up to 155 tonnes of aviation fuel on board. I don't need a weapon to hijack- they haven't actually noticed I have already taken control of the aeroplane! By saving the unnecessary security on me and the rest of the flight deck crew, they can make our jobs easier and less fatiguiging and they can target the real villains better. But no- 'might and justice' are on their side, and criticism of security is like making yourself a paedophile these days!

We have a creeping cancer that is self serving to justify its own existence, backed by stupid politicians who will put the industry through hell, charging and taxing it out of existence, and who only care about making the great public see their 'strong' resolve.
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 22:42
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Flying Aggie

Given that response, I can only assume you were on your way out to Tripoli?
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 22:57
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Having had first hand experience (from the inside) of the recruitment policy relating to security positions within the BAA is a joke. Without meaning to sound blatantly condescending, some of the people screened for these positions would have had severe difficulty in looking after themselves, never mind the well being and security of the thousands of passengers, crew and airport staff passing through the terminal concourse each day. A 5 year reference and security check reveals a lot of interesting facts regarding a person's history. The level of dishonesty and conceit that became apparent within certain candidates was alarming. Other candidates who had failed the process a year ago had been permitted to re-apply, largely due to the fact that the BAA was lagging behind in their targets. It is major concern to think that certain individuals with such a low capacity and complete lack of common sense can arrive in a position of such importance. Unfortunately, as a result, the position becomes whole heartedly abused. Stansted is a perfect example of it, where all too often some dunderhead takes great joy in belittling you in front of an audience of onlooking passengers, while his partner in crime attempts to read your pilot's licence upside down, hoping to spot that your last LPC was signed off by Osama Bin Laden himself!
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 23:14
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Flying Aggie

I went through as a pax, not in uniform and forgot that I still had my ID on. The BAA person asked me to take it off as I was not on duty. I am sure that he was right, but it points out one thing from BAA security, that is a lack of consistency which my colleagues have noted on many occasions.
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Old 5th Dec 2009, 23:21
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Have stated this before but in an industry such as the railways if the drivers/signallers/engineers were subject to this sort of nonsense they would have all walked out on a national strike and it would have been sorted within hours.

I feel that we really only have ourselves to blame for not being more organised in our protest and till such time as we do same little will change.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 00:57
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...out to Tripoli?
Tripoli?
Yes, I pass through there from time to time.
It's always...'Good morning Captain, step right this way, sir.

No muss, no fuss.
Same in Jeddah.
And, most of Africa.

UK?
To be avoided at all costs.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 01:07
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As a pilot, no security need apply to me..blah blah blah blah blah
Why is everyone assuming (quoted author included) that the "hijacking tools" are for the use of the person carrying them?

It would be totally simple for the "pilot" or whatever aircrew it was, to carry the tools of the trade and secrete them in a certain section of the airport for pick up by another co-conspirator perhaps unknown?

Even assuming that the bad guy/potential hijacker is the one transporting the tools through security, then denying him the ability to carry enough to subdue YOU in the left hand seat may be a good idea!

Hijacking attempt changed pilots Knoxville News Sentinel
45 minutes... If they had gotten to the airport when they were supposed to (instead of the very last minute) then the flight wouldnt have been delayed.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 02:01
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411A

Think you missed the point!
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 05:35
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411A

Think you missed the point
Negative, MG...read between the lines, old boy.

I demand respect from security personel, and in return, they have my respect.
I do NOT operate to the UK for this very reason (totally unsuitable security staff...most smell bad, as well) and in fact, as I am normally positioned from my home in Arizona to the middle east for assignment, at no time will I entertain positioning through the UK.
BA in fact does not have my (or my companies business) as a result.
Their loss, not mine.
And, as I'm the CP, I will not allow other crew members to be positioned thru the UK, either.
BA loses again.

CDG/FRA/AMS...OK, LHR (or anywhere else in the UK)...just ain't gonna happen, EVER.

UK...pass it by, and wave goodbye from aloft.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 05:41
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Not to defend 411a but I don't think he missed the point at all.




As Professional Pilots it appears we have to go to the Third World to get First world treatment..
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 06:10
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Folks, I have to admit that every time I go through BAA security I always have a smug smile on my face knowing that the knuckle draggers processing me, have reached their career limits!!! They should have worked harder at school!!!

I wonder what it's like waking up every morning, looking at the mirror, knowing you are stupid!!!!
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 06:13
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Agree with fireflybob.

This security nonsense is fast becoming a safety issue. The Captain in question may not have been in a fit state to operate after the mauling etc., he and his crew experienced from these morons and security Nazi's, (no pun intended). Now dont try and tell me the crews should be above this stupidity and laugh it off, as we are all human, therefore fallible.

We wont get any help from the CAA as no one there will have the balls to speak out in case they are labeled "soft on terrorism" and committing "employment suicide" in the process.

Unless we are all prepared to make a stand enmass against this it will continue to get worse. If anyone has the balls to make a united stand, throw the ID card stupidity onto the pot aswell.

Good one, Lear driver. Problem is they are too stupid to know they are stupid. Almost a stupid as politians.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 09:23
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"Naked Pilot takes over Aircraft" is what the papers might report one day.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 09:34
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I think the best has to be Stansted,

There was an immigration offical who stopped me coming off the aircraft just as I walked passed the door the pax were going in (since i was heading to the crewroom). The guy starts shouting at me asking were did I think I was going and to see ID for being on the ramp, so I showed him my STN ID but then he starts giving out that I was showing an airport ID to a immigration offical (apparently only a passport will do) and that he could take it off me, the fact he had asked to see the ID for being on the ramp seemed not to matter, all the pax who saw this couldnt help but start laughing so I welcomed them all to STN again
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 10:23
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If I were on the receiving end of a PA in which the captain complained about having taken only 45 minutes to get through the airport I wouldn't have been too impressed ...

... having taken two or three hours to get through myself.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 11:06
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The sad thing is, we as a group of professionals are supposed to be a relatively bright bunch. Why, then, do we let ourselves be dictated to time and time again, (salaries, T&C's, security issues) by people who can barely tie their shoelaces, let alone fly a commercial aircraft.


We only have ourselves to blame. If we're not thick, then is it apathy, disinterest or laziness that leaves us in the weakest position possible, when dealing with airline management, security staff, or just about everyone we interact with on a day to day basis?


The only way this will improve is if we show some b*lls, stand up and be counted. I'm not turning this into a union or not thread, but as the union usually is responsible for representing our best interests, maybe we should start by getting a little more for our 1%? If we all refused to fly for a week, (as an organised, united campaign) on the grounds of ridiculous security procedures forced upon us, perhaps the powers that be would sit up and take notice?


Enough is enough, put up or shut up is the choice.

Last edited by Bigbus330; 6th Dec 2009 at 11:27.
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Old 6th Dec 2009, 11:18
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I demand respect...
Maybe, just maybe, having a supercilious attitude gets noticed and however petty or wrong, your 'inferiors' decide to give you the run-around because 'they can'?

Respect is earned, not demanded. You should have earned some respect by the position you hold, but to people that are possibly are way below you on the common sense and education ladder, quite often attitude means more.

Treat others with respect and you earn it.

These guys, however dumb or 'knuckle dragging', deal with hundreds of people every working day... they are probbaly pretty good at reading body language and vibes, just because of the amount of exposure they have to people.

They will then quite possibly, change their attitude to individuals to suit. We all do it, it is a natural reaction that happens subconsciously.

In no way am I excusing any poor or inflexible behaviour by security staff, but the above is a fair reflection on human nature.
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