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Shipping Pollution

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Shipping Pollution

Old 22nd Nov 2009, 10:44
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Shipping Pollution

Now will they start to believe that aviation is not the worst pollution offender (quite reasonable per person per mile), but that there are worse violators of the enviroment, cars and ships!!!

How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world | Mail Online
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 11:01
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More bang for your buck
 
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So what would happen to the "dregs" if ships don't burn them I wonder?
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 11:33
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In the days of sail it was much greener all they threw overboard were empty rum bottles and dead slaves.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:01
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Talking of which, all they throw overboard nowadays is just about everything except rum bottles and dead slaves. Walk along any beach in any part of the world and at times you are almost wading through the detritus left behind by ships. Curiously the green lobby hasn't caught on to this, in the same way that they have consistently ignored pollution caused by coal burning in order to concentrate on their favourite bete noir, nuclear power.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:22
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Maybe something sinister. At the last count six had turned up



RICHMOND - A right foot has been found inside a running shoe on a beach in Richmond, the seventh foot found along B.C.ís coast in two years, RCMP said Wednesday.

Two men walking on the beach Tuesday evening found the foot in a white size 8.5 Nike running shoe on the beach at No. 6 Road and Triangle Road, the RCMP said.

The BC Coroners Service confirmed the remains were human through a forensic autopsy and will conduct more forensic tests in its investigation with the RCMP.

The RCMP say they are stumped over this. Iím sure as hard as they try, they must feel like something is missing. I know the RCMP have to be careful where they tread, but Iím sure they are trying with all their heart and sole to crack this case. Itís difficult though, they donít really have a solid footing here, even though they have great support from the community. They just donít want to toe the line, and Iím sure they feel like heels so far, but they shouldnít feel like a bunch of loafers, they should pump each other up, catch the perps, boot them to the curb, and even if the criminals decide to flip-flop on their stories, donít limp into court, they need to make it their duty to prosecute these people that have been sneakering around.

You canít give them an inch, theyíll take a foot.
From Mitchieville.com
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:31
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Tanker

...you're talking trash!
Believe me, there is PLENTY of very strict and very enforced legislation on shipping these days (Google "MARPOL" to start with and go on from there). You cannot just chuck stuff overboard, including sewage (Annex IV, ISPP), oily water (Annex I, IOPP) or garbage (Annex V). Even antifouling is now of an approved "environmentally approved" type. They have recently pushed through air pollution legislation (Annex VI, IAPP) in MARPOL.

This is a worldwide standard, ratified by all nations through IMO.

Don't worry, the "environmental" tax collectiing has been working overtime in shipping for many years now.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:32
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Exclamation

Errr, hang on Mr. TTN.

What about Kingsnorth? and that other one ... Didcot springs to mind.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:35
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First lesson learned at sea ,when tasked to throw the gash overboard tiz vital one know the difference betwix leeward and windward side.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 12:37
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Probably the only time you wouldn't want to get your own back, Mr. D?
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 13:04
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I saw an article a while back about the North Pacific Gyre (also know as the Eastern Pacific Garbage Patch and the Great Pacific Garbage Patch) which is a huge floating island of plastics that has collected in a specific location due to ocean currents.
The Eastern Garbage Patch floats between Hawaii and California; scientists estimate its size as two times bigger than Texas
There are, apparently, other locations:-
The Western Garbage Patch forms east of Japan and west of Hawaii. Each swirling mass of refuse is massive and collects trash from all over the world.
More at:- Great Pacific Garbage Patch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 13:19
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Loosley related, but something that has always held my interest :-

Every Cloud Has a Filthy Lining : Feature Articles

Ship Trails over the Pacific Ocean : Natural Hazards
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 15:49
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Squeegee Longtail

Tanker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...you're talking trash!
Believe me, there is PLENTY of very strict and very enforced legislation on shipping these days
Now here is a thread that captures one's attention to decipher

at first I thought that the quoted response above was a put-down of another poster, until I noted;

That the other posters name was Tankertrash and that the referenced post contained the flowery word detritus which is a apt description of tanker trash.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 16:45
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Lomapaseo...

Always look beneath the surface! (that's if you can see through the sh!t floating on the surface!)
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 21:22
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Squeegee...

...There are still plenty of tankers washing tanks when they think they can get away with it. We used to follow the slicks and sure as shot you'd find someone who'd just stopped pumping overboard when they heard us coming and looking the other way; "Who? what? me guv? nah must have been some other guy"

The Ancient Mariner
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 21:33
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Still,without they Tankers you would have a hell of a long drive to fill up.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 21:51
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Why do the tanks get washed? (curious)
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 21:58
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Tank cleaning gives the crew summat to do and we used to get a tot of rum after we regained conciousness.
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Old 22nd Nov 2009, 23:20
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Longtail View Post
...you're talking trash!
Believe me, there is PLENTY of very strict and very enforced legislation on shipping these days (Google "MARPOL" to start with and go on from there). You cannot just chuck stuff overboard ... the "environmental" tax collectiing has been working overtime in shipping for many years now.
So where did this come from, then? Eco-ignorant whales?
What is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch?

I think that Roosian is only talking about the tip of a very big iceberg. (forgive the mixed metaphor.)
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Old 23rd Nov 2009, 02:12
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The use of Heavy Fuel Oil (HFO) or Bunker C is partly due to the relatively cool-burning characteristics of the fuel, allowing adequate time for the heat to be conducted away through the massive cylinder-heads, valves, piston-crown etc which are encountered in large, slow-speed marine diesel engines.

If you go to a higher calorific-value fuel, then the thermodynamics of the engine has to be managed very carefully, lest you cause too rapid differential expansion and crack something. Bear in mind the largest slow-speed Sulzer-type marine diesel engines are about the same dimensions spatially as a 2-storey house, and can weigh several hundred tonnes. This is real "Heavy Metal" we're talking here.

Heat-flow through these engines must be managed very carefully! A cylinder-head (fully "dressed") may weigh as much a 3 tonnes, possibly more. A piston can easily exceed a tonne once it has been assembled to the con-rod and cross-head. As for the weight of a crankshaft, the last ship I sailed on had two engines with crankshafts that weighed 109 tonnes each. These engines are kept permanently heated ("warmed-through") by a water-jacket so they don't destroy themselves when they are started (usually by compressed-air). If you don't watch thermal expansion and contracation, you'll do some very serious damage indeed...hence the use of a fuel with a relatively low calorific value, such as HFO.

What sort of dadmage, you may ask? Well, if you crack a crankshaft, you may as well scrap the ship because there is no way such a large item can be brought from ashore into the machinery-space without removing either the side of the ship at the engine-room area, or the rear (poop) deck. Insurance-wise, it's simpler to write it off. If replacement is contemplated, dismantling such a large engine to replace a crankshaft requires similar structural disruption, to say nothing of shore-based lifting-gear unlikely to be available except in limited ports and at limited availability.

Admittedly, HFO is a very polluting fuel. I have seen the brown haze from ship's exhaust stretching from funnel to horizon for days on end in the open sea, and it's not a pretty sight, and mariners are not proud to see it coming from their ship. It is a pretty toxic exhaust indeed, and we are all acutely aware of it. (I once got a lung-full of diesel generator exhaust and my throat burned for days afterwards from the sulphur dioxide, and diesel generators run on MDO or medium diesel oil which is a higher-grade of fuel than HFO.) However, slow-speed Sulzer marine diesel engines are ruthlessly efficient at extracting energy from what is essentially a waste-product from a cracking-tower. They burn the almost-incombustible, and put the energy liberated to good use, turning shafts that drive ships and facilitate commerce.

A higher-calorific value fuel, cleaner-burning and [I]ipso facto[I] less polluting, would require design-changes to the engines to enable the greater amounts of heat to be removed so the engines didn't damage themselves. It could be done by the engine-manufacturers, but first the type of fuel to be used has to be agreed, the fuel itself produced, and the industry has to change over to using it. That's a hell of a lot of holes in the Swiss Cheese that have to line up all at the same time, and given the nature of the international shipping industry (get the biggest return for the smallest outlay), it simply isn't going to happen.

Like it or not, the marine engine of the forseeable future will likely still burn purified tar because that's what works and is cheapest.
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Old 23rd Nov 2009, 03:12
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It's not just smog coming out of those ships stacks, it's oceanic chem trails!!!

Wake up people, These ships are not ferrying around Christmas presents, they are spreading mind altering chemicals so the Government can control our thoughts.

You may snort dismissively, but I have visited websites and read stuff from real experts and inside informers!!! This is real! This is scary! This pretzel is making me thirsty!

Quick, someone get me some peanut butter and tinfoil!


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