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Terror on holiday jet

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Terror on holiday jet

Old 4th Sep 2007, 11:48
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Assuming it was normal Palma ops (i.e. two runways in use) then it could well have been due to an aircraft being slow to vacate - in other words no big deal.

I have been in 3 Ga's in around 750 sectors as a passenger. Although I knew what was going on, the passengers around me didn't and many were quite scared until I reassured them that nothing was wrong.

Whilst the flying crew will be strictly following the golden rule of "aviate, navigate, communicate" and therefore there might be a few minutes before an announcement can be made surely a short automated announcement linked to the TOGA switches could be incorporated? This would ease the immediate fears of the passengers until the captain has time to make an announcement.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 11:52
  #22 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Thats right guys, salve your own precious little egos by demeaning your cargo who have absolutely no idea what is happening
My experience is that smart professional pilots leave their passengers little room or motivation to contribute to scare stories by telling them whats going on and why, and effectively making them part of the story.
But don't listen to me. Demean your passengers for their fears if it makes you feel good.
Sunfish, you are either showing your total ignorance of life onboard a civilian airliner, or you are on a trolling expedition.
  • During the initial phase of a GA, the pilots have better things to do than waffling over the PA. Which is why in many airlines the Purser will make an initial PA to the pax. Once the aircraft is stabilized into the briefed GA pattern or whatever it's called, the Captain will then make a PA with all the relevant info.
  • When he does that, a segment of the pac will actually listen and digest the Captain's words, and will be reassured. Another segment will be so scared that they will not listen, let alone understand what is being explained to them, even if it's done in single syllable words and short sentences. They will remain scared and panicky whatever the crew does. Yet another segment of the SLF will hear the words but will immediately presume that they are being lied to. Whatever is explained to these people will fall on deaf ears because their paranoia is bigger than their brains.
  • So even in the best case scenario, with the best possible announcements from CC and Pilots, only about one third of the pax will feel 'part of the story' and at peace with a GA.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 12:07
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Dunna go-around yesterday in my Volvo. We was makin' fr the nearest Shell for a replen when I wos cut up a treat by some spotty 'erbert in a 1971 Viva. Made me swerve uncontrollably towards the geriatric gym on the corner, by Patel's newsagents. I manfully grappled wiv my various controls but 'ad passed the forecourt entrance by nearly 113.56 feet! Gawd, did I panic! But then........up to the rahndabah, quick 180 and wiv a squeel of Michelins I was back in position for anuvva dart at the Shell portico.

Afterwards I rang ve Mail to let 'em know of my lucky escape but they said they weren't interested.......they told me I'd made it up!!!!!!!
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 13:41
  #24 (permalink)  
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.....So we were coming in for landing at London Heathrow. Without consulting us, the passengers, the pilot suddenly decided that the flight was over and started to loose altitude! We were quite startled by this as the engine noise was clearly a lot less than before. We were totally going beserk because someone on seat 24C said that this was because the fuel had been shut off. A whole debate got started as to whether this was done deliberately or due to the fact that it had simply run out.
This horrible situation did not last very long, because the pilot had also started to pump more air into the airplane!!! It hurt our ears, and we were sure that he did that just to make us realize exactly how tense the situation really was. Sheer terror came upon us when he came over the intercom. "Folks, the weather in London today is as usual: rainy and a light westerly breeze..."
The seatbelt sign came on just as we entered a thick cloud layer. (Ponggggg) There was nothing to see!!!! How on Earth does the pilot dare take such an irresponsible step as simply flying into clouds! To make thing worse, the airplane was bumped around a bit as we felt that pieces of airplane were ripped off by the clouds and rain outside.
Miraculously we emerged underneath the cloud layer.......And that is where the real terror started.
WE WERE DIRECTLY ABOVE WESTMINSTER!!!!! How dangerous! What if we fell to the ground at this instance? Gawd and it was also starting to get dark so it was absolutely impossible to make out anything other than millions of city lights.....But no airport in sight anywhere.
This was because the pilot was actually lost. So what did he do?
Yep. He decided to fly even lower. Probably so that he could read the road signs and find his way to Heathrow.
Now the airplane really started to disintegrate, as various sections of wing started to come loose and were blown backward by the howling airsteam. They nearly came loose and consequently almost fell on the Hyde Park Orphanage and King's Cross Elementary School we were over.
Raindrops were streaking across my window. This surely was a very unsafe situation, as none of our windows had windshield wipers!!! How was the pilot supposed to see anything at all through HIS window? This must have crossed the mind of the pilot at that moment, because there he was again on the intercom...."Cabin crew, take your seats for landing, please..." He was saying this, we reckoned, because he was unsure whether we we going to make it safely to the airport. Apparently he seriously doubted whether we were going to live through this...
We were falling and falling out of the sky, as the ground raced by below us. It felt like a runaway train.....Impossible to stop....when suddenly the pilot veered the airplane up! This was because otherwise we would have hit the ground with an enormous speed. We would surely have ended our lives in a big orange fireball.
When we miraculously hit the ground, the engines started howling and blowing up all this water that was sitting on the runway. It was absolutely impossible to see anything out my window because of this! And up front with the pilot it must have been a lot worse.

So after that we applauded and hugged each other because we were so relieved to have made it....
The pilots were also quite startled by this harrowing experience, because they had to park the aircraft somewhere..."to wait until our gate becomes available."
Nonsense. We were sure that they were as horrified as we were. They were surely discussing this terror-experience amongst themselves. That's why they were not able to park the airplane, their hands were still shaking.

Last edited by fox niner; 4th Sep 2007 at 14:08.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 14:49
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
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FACT: the vast majority of passengers have never experienced a go-around. It is, consequently, a slightly alarming experience.

FACT: all professional pilots are trained to perform go-arounds and understand they are completely routine and nothing to write home about.

FACT: the Daily Mail is a newspaper and we all know that newspapers love scare stories involving passenger jets (especially crap ones like the Daily Mail). On Sunday evening, for example, the 10pm news bulletin on Radio 4 reported that a Thomsonfly aircraft had "performed an emergency landing" at East Midlands airport. I think we'd all agree that it was pretty much a non-event.

Speaking as a passenger whose never experienced a go-around (but would quite like to bizarrely!), I can see why some passengers could be alarmed.

It is ridiculous that the Daily Mail writes this crap, but it simply isn't sensational enough for them to calmly explain what happened.

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Old 4th Sep 2007, 14:55
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
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RingwaySam (post #4),
Thanks for the Sanford GA video.

Did you notice too, that all the screaming was from the babies and small kids, and that it all happened before the GA?
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 17:04
  #27 (permalink)  
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Before embarking on some dangerous and outlandish manoever, such as taking off, I calm the passengers nerves by calmly announcing over the PA. Ladies and gentlemen, there is absolutely no need for you to be scared. I am scared enough for all of us.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 17:14
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Thumbs down Contact the Daily Mail

Ladies and Gents,

Can I suggest that you send a quick email to the 'journalist' involved. His name is James Mills, and his email address is [email protected].

You could also copy the email to his editorial team at [email protected] and [email protected] and [email protected]

His editor must be embrassed to have employed him !

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Old 4th Sep 2007, 17:55
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
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What twits these journalists are, I was surprised that it was not our sock and sandal friend.....Mr Simon Calder, they must all come from the same School of Bulls#!t ! Perhaps the journo concerned should write for a comic........oh my mistake, he already does!!! Chocks away Biggles.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 18:06
  #30 (permalink)  
See and avoid
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I'm with Juud on this one. I'd rather the pilots execute a safe GA and worry about explanations later. Besides, what if ATC says "GO AROUND NOW!" without explaining why? Do you want the pilots to waste time figuring out why so they can explain it to the pax or do you want them to focus on the go around?

And yes, some people will be scared regardless.

Disclaimer, NOT a professional airline pilot.
visibility3miles is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2007, 19:12
  #31 (permalink)  
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Oddly, the readers comments section seems to be stuck at 10. I know I submitted a comment. Do you think they have locked that section?

What is the connection between a safe go-around and the Tenerife accident in 1977? I would hate to think that the journo was simply scaremongering...

It just makes one realise that what is written in the papers is complete hokum. How much other junk do we accept as fact when written by these people?
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 20:11
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I propose a motion for all aviation related stories to be sent to the C.A.A or similar (here) for vetting before being allowed to be published. Make this legal and punishable by stoning if ignored. No wonder so many people freak out about flying. Idiot Journo's.
I Just Drive is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2007, 21:14
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Angry Mail the Mail

I think we should all mail the editor and journalist, lets plague them with rubbish till they get the message.

I am sick of reading about non events that always seem to take place near schools, hospitals, cities etc...

Perhaps we should ask the journalist how many times he has crashed his car v how many times the pilot crashed his aircraft.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 21:37
  #34 (permalink)  
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Gentleman, I agree it is well and good to chide the Mail for it's reporting, but please don't blame the Pax for their fears or their colorful version of the events they believed they experienced.

I understand as professionals you can't do what I do - which is tell my occasional passenger that a go-around is always a distinct possibility.
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 21:42
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
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*pours petrol on flames*

Ok, which bits of the report are rubbish then? Passengers scream? Well, maybe they did, it's been known. Pilot spotted another jet? Presumably he did, unless there's a more interesting reason for GA. Pulled up sharply and avoided disaster? Well, that's the idea. Some passengers were panicked? Sounds fair enough. Pilot followed standard ops and landed safely? Good man, that's his job.
You can bet passengers were talking about their trip later, down the pub (they're not trained for GAs). And, of course, we're all talking about it too, as well as logging on to read the original article and beefing up the website's traffic figures. D'oh.

*retreats rapidly, prepares to deploy reversers*
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 21:59
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Being on a holiday jet as a passenger is sheer terror, period! Just imagine being trapped for hours with a bunch of screaming children, like the ones from the Sanford video. The horror... the horror!
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Old 4th Sep 2007, 22:44
  #37 (permalink)  
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Decided to add my comment to the story, whether they add it or not remains to be seen. It still amazes me how this has made the news!
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 00:44
  #38 (permalink)  
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I think the wisest, most concise, and helpful instruction I ever received was:

"Every takeoff is a reject. Every approach is a go-around."
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 04:58
  #39 (permalink)  
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Johannes Gutenberg is to blame for inventing a printing process that made print available to the masses, and hence created newspapers and editors.

It appears we have appointed our worst generals to command forces, and our most gifted and brilliant to edit newspapers! In fact, I discovered by reading newspapers that these editor/geniuses plainly saw all my strategic defects from the start, yet failed to inform me until it was too late. Accordingly, I'm readily willing to yield my command to these obviously superior intellects, and I'll, in turn, do my best for the cause by writing editorials - after the fact.
Robert E. Lee, 1863
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 07:16
  #40 (permalink)  
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Brief the pax!!!

Go arounds are scary in the back. You think you are landing, You don't feel the "bump" but the engines do that really loud roaring sound that they nearly always do just after a landing but you as a passenger feel yourself going back up!

The cattle at the back get educated so well on every aspect of crashing down to the finer details on how to tie a life jacket on with a double bow and where the whistle is (um has any large passenger aircraft ditched successfully?)

Just before landing we hear the "fasten your seatbelt, make sure your tray is put away, your seat is in the upright position"

All you need to add is..... (insert something to advise passengers that it is normal to GA and describe what it will feel like)

Then, when a GA happens, the cabin crew tells the pax what happened. NOT the flight deck. The ones up the front are too busy.
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