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The Climate Change debate

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The Climate Change debate

Old 28th Aug 2011, 15:07
  #9061 (permalink)  
 
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Didn't Klaatu and Gort sort us all out about this back in 1951?
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 16:28
  #9062 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jane-DoH View Post
This is some of the most shameless fear-mongering I've seen in a while.
Jane,
I thought the original "studies" were mostly 'background material' to SETI and METI, and not all that badly written.
Partly science fiction, but then science fiction is a good source for 'out-of-the-box' thinking, I would say.
The 'fear-mongering' is of course all done by the media, which can't read anyway, or distinguish between 'thought experiments' and 'reality'.

CJ
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 21:03
  #9063 (permalink)  
 
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ChristiaanJ

The 'fear-mongering' is of course all done by the media, which can't read anyway, or distinguish between 'thought experiments' and 'reality'.
Seems awfully coincidental considering that just after CERN's experiment concerning cosmic rays being cause for climate change, that this whopper comes up
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 21:15
  #9064 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jane-DoH View Post
ChristiaanJ
Seems awfully coincidental considering that just after CERN's experiment concerning cosmic rays being cause for climate change, that this whopper comes up
Jane, IIRC that 'whopper' came up just before the CERN CLOUD experiment results were published.

CJ
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 21:19
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Saw a graphic on another site showing where the signals carrying early tv programs will have reached by now.

Proved two things.

1 It will take a helluva long time before any aliens even see images from Earth, decide what to do about it then get here.

2. We are more likely to be attacked for foisting re-runs of 'I love Lucy' on the Galaxy than anything we do to the weather.
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Old 28th Aug 2011, 21:21
  #9066 (permalink)  
 
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ChristiaanJ

I didn't know that. Regardless, it still wouldn't be all that out there for such a fear-mongering campaign to be released before the results came in. After all, many climate scientists already understood that the sun caused climate change for quite awhile. They would have had to know that the experiment would have proved this hypothesis.

These guys aren't stupid, they understand science; they simply don't care about it. They're interested in politics and power.
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 04:53
  #9067 (permalink)  
 
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This is some of the most shameless fear-mongering I've seen in awhile

Aliens May Destroy Humanity to Protect Other Civilizations, Scientists Say

If you dig into the backgroudn you'll find that this study wasn't an official NASA study, it was done by some NASA employees in their spare time and at no cost to the agency.
Also, a brief search shows that the words 'climate', 'warming' and 'AGW' aren't used at all. The word 'greenhouse' is used twice. So, two sentences out of a 33 page paper mention climate change in some way, yet that's what all the fuss is about.
But hey, that's a boring story. It's much better to come up with idiotic and misleading headlines stating "NASA sayz alienes woz gonna kills us!!!1!!!11"
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 05:31
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Venus is cloud covered you know...

Seems awfully coincidental considering that just after CERN's experiment concerning cosmic rays being cause for climate change
Jane-DOH

A slight over-simplification of what the new research seems to be saying. There are many causes for climate change, some more dominant than others and it is likely that cosmic radiation has a part to play as well in the complexity that is our ever changing climate.

It seems that cosmic rays are implicated in the formation of cloud condensation nuclei. The current study is ongoing and no hard conclusions have yet been drawn nor have the implications of the research been factored into models that may appear to evidence AGW or not.

No doubt protagonists and antagonists of AGW will jump inappropriately on the bandwagon well before the science is done and dusted (excuse my nucleic pun).

Caco

Cosmic Rays and Climate | ScienceBits

Last edited by Cacophonix; 29th Aug 2011 at 05:56. Reason: Cosmically bad spelling
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 05:54
  #9069 (permalink)  
 
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Cogito ergo fun...

As for the NASA scientistsí Gedankenexperiment, I suppose we should not take anything too literally. Scientists do have a sense of humour too (see people like Richard Feynman) and are likely to use science fiction (they are scientists after all) to further some notions.

Look at poor old Schrodinger and his ubiquitous cat. Shunned and hated by generations of cat lovers when he could have used an amoeba or a fruit fly instead!

Caco

Some Feynman fun...

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pattis/misc/feynman.pdf

Last edited by Cacophonix; 29th Aug 2011 at 06:27.
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 18:03
  #9070 (permalink)  

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If you dig into the backgroudn you'll find that this study wasn't an official NASA study, it was done by some NASA employees in their spare time and at no cost to the agency.
Well you know, that's a bit curious to me, as when I went to work for the US Government one of the many conditions of employment that I had to agree to and affirm, was that I could not write anything and release it without permission from Washington, not even a cookbook.

It didn't matter if I was on my own time or if it didn't cost the government a penny. Let alone release something under the name of organization I was employed by, without permission.

So somebody is lying or this is a agency CYA action of denial.
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 18:18
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911SLF

(re Heisenberg)
he backed Hitler
What did he get at Ladbroke's? He should have gone each way on the Soviets. They did.

SO
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 19:07
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It didn't matter if I was on my own time or if it didn't cost the government a penny. Let alone release something under the name of organization I was employed by, without permission.
Con, I believe their "study" was released in their own personal capacity (i.e. they were NASA affiliates at Pennsylvania State University) or do the government dark ops types totally abnegate their right to a personal life?

Don't answer that question lest you have to kill me later if you do.

Caco
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 19:23
  #9073 (permalink)  

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Don't answer that question lest you have to kill me later if you do.
Too late. Just don't answer the door for a while and you may be okay.

Now, what was the question?
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Old 29th Aug 2011, 22:26
  #9074 (permalink)  
 
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I must admit....
Linking Roswell and AGW is an achievement, even on JB.

CJ
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 00:15
  #9075 (permalink)  
 
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Caco

One is aware that Penn State University is the employer of Dr. Mann? And that a "Special Investigative Team" cleared him of the "Hockey Shtick" Schtick?

Commingling one's professional allegiance and perquisites with one's own research is, ahem.....unprofessional? This is what got Hansen his soily rep, eh? Also cashing Checks from Gore's Friend, Blood?
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 01:27
  #9076 (permalink)  
 
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Cacophonix

A slight over-simplification of what the new research seems to be saying.
I apologize, I was simply trying to give an abstract explanation for purposes of brevity. I am aware that there are a multitude of causes for changes of climate.
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 05:48
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Well you know, that's a bit curious to me, as when I went to work for the US Government one of the many conditions of employment that I had to agree to and affirm, was that I could not write anything and release it without permission from Washington, not even a cookbook.
That's completely impracticable in science, though. NASA employees publish tens of thousands of papers each year, and you'd need a hell of a lot of penpushers to read through them all.
As far as I know from talking to my American colleagues you're free to publish as long as you adhere to some basic guidelines on content (scientific quality, impartiality etc). One requirement is that everything you publish has your NASA affiliation on it (whether it was done in NASA time or not), which is the source of problems such as this one. Another major sticking point is - as with all US employees - you have to make your paper freely available. Journal publishers hate that as they lose revenue.
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 13:47
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The alien thing now that's funny. It brings to mind that very funny show 'The Big Bang Theory'. Nerds the lot of them, maybe they came back from a trekkie convention.

Speaking of crackpots, I see Gore is at it again:

Gore Likens Climate Sceptics To Opponents Of Civil Rights Movement - Irish Weather Online

Comparing skepticism to racism! Oh dear the poor dear is losing it. I can easily see AGW proponents edging quietly away from him. With friends like that..........
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 14:05
  #9079 (permalink)  
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I see Hanson's been arrested yet again.
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Old 30th Aug 2011, 21:04
  #9080 (permalink)  
 
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corsair

Comparing skepticism to racism! Oh dear the poor dear is losing it. I can easily see AGW proponents edging quietly away from him. With friends like that..........
Actually, it will probably work better than you'd think. Most people find racism appalling (as they should), which is very effective to galvanize support. Also it might silence some criticism, considering political correctness.

Of course this is not racism, this is demagoguery and appeals to emotion to advance a morally bankrupt agenda
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