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Scotland 1 France 0

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Scotland 1 France 0

Old 8th Oct 2006, 13:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Tell you what 'Butt-head' - you lose the 'Superiority Complex' with associated chip on shoulder, and we'll lose the 'Inferiority Complex' with associated chip on shoulder, and we'll all get along much better as neighbours!

PS Remind me what the score was last time we met at Wembley? Respect? Jeesh...
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 13:39
  #22 (permalink)  

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Ah the voice of reasoned argument! Scotland won the match at Wembley fair and square - respect for that. And respect for the fans who unlike previous occasions did not trash the place afterwards.

Whats all this stuff about inferiority/superiority complexes? We're both just an ordinary bunch of guys who happen to live in different parts of the same island thats all. Our ancesters probably came from all parts of Europe and Scandinavia (mine almost certainly came from Flanders in the 13th C). The only reason I do not particularly respect some of you is because every time you win a football or rugby match you come on here waiving flags and shouting about how good you are. Yet if England win something it just seems to reinforce resentment of us. Remember the snide comments on Jet Blast just before the rugby WC final? No good luck messages there AFAIK.

So how about a sensible answer to a straight question then, just what can those of us living south of Gretna do to gain your respect?
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 14:27
  #23 (permalink)  
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How about posing the question the other way about.

Why is it those of us living north of Gretna have such minimal respect for you lot?

Regarding flag waving. Hell's bells, the entire population of Engerlund had them stuck to cars, windows, street lights during the ill-fated( ) WC campaign, so i'm sure Rab-K is entitled to post a little saltire after yesterday's heroic performance.

And keeping the topic football related (coz that's what this thread is about), before and during the WC, your medja down there had Engerlund winning the cup, blatantly disregarding (as usual) every other nation. Add that to the mix of other equally annoying things and a pattern soon emerges.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 14:32
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Putting it as straightforward as one can without wishing to descend into a Scots vs Angles 'hamster wheel', respect is best given and received on a mutual and basis, i.e. if you give it, you get it.

Sadly that is not often the case in these Isles and the animosity that is often found in place of respect can be seen on all sides.

For example, the 'Anyone But England' camp's knee-jerk Anglophobia can be seen as a direct response to the perceived insistence by some elements South of Gretna that allegiance to England, as the senior and dominant partner in the UK, should be given automatically and without question. They are simply two sides of the same coin.

I suspect that mutual respect 'twixt our countries will only be achieved when both go their separate ways, a bit like siblings who never really got on as kids, but who come to relish each others company as adults.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 15:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Duckbutt youre wasting your time pal.

Leave em be!
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 15:31
  #26 (permalink)  
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http://images.google.co.uk/images?sv...ss&btnG=Search
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 15:34
  #27 (permalink)  

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Nice one Colmac! Come on then, show us yer medals........

Fascinating pair of replies, and thank you both for taking the trouble to respond this time in a reasoned manner (ignoring Colmac's last post).

OK reasonable point about the flags as gestures of support I suppose. If we had have won instead of failing miserably I would have hoped that no Englishmen would have come on here like Rab did waiving the flag and shouting how great we are. I certainly don’t recall it happening after our rugby success (nor the messages of congratulations from Scotland). It would seem that you reinforce your prejudices by taking the media comments as being typical of the general attitude of the English whereas probably the majority of people down here were somewhat embarrassed by and would dissociate themselves from some of the media’s (usually the red top comics) “winning the cup sentiments” before a ball was kicked. The same applies when they print their xenophobic rubbish before every England v Germany match. I trust the Scots have learned that lesson and would never again hold a victory parade as did Ally Macleod’s team before the 1978 tournament (and no laughing smilies posted here either Colmac).

Rab, you summarise it well in your expression 'Anyone But England' knee-jerk Anglophobia which in my, I accept naivety, I personally find totally inexplicable in the 21st C, as I do for example the sectarianism of the Old Firm matches. I repeat, we are just a bunch of guys who are no different from each other but happen to live in different parts of the island so why the disrespect? Move on from the battles of the past and no talk of separatism – it’s just the one small island and in this day of mass transport and advanced communications the World is moving on from the concept of small nation states.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 16:37
  #28 (permalink)  
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Good to see one of Scotland's greatest ever footballers mentioned on these pages.

I always thought Mr Law's comments were tongue-in-cheek...a bit. After all, whilst he may have hated the Auld Enemy when he played against them, he did after all spend most of his playing career in England, & still lives there.

(OK, I admit to a level of bias given where Denis came from... )

Think all us Scots know the midweek match vs Ukraine will be every bit as tough.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 16:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Duckbutt View Post
I repeat, we are just a bunch of guys who are no different from each other but happen to live in different parts of the island so why the disrespect?
Now there is where you and I part company. We are different, and vive la difference I say as that is what makes us who we are. Not all people on these isles identify first and foremost with the concept of the Kingdom of Great Britain nor the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Like it or not, it's a fact. Should you examine our countries and their peoples closely you'll find we probably have as much in terms of differences as we do in commonalities.

Sure we've shared a monarch for 400 years and a parliament for 300. Fought wars together as allies and built a once great empire from which we all benefited. But the project to turn the Scots into the North British and the English into the South British was tried and funnily enough failed, on both sides of the border. Our union has been more political and economic in nature rather than in social and cultural terms. Indeed, it is the social and cultural aspects in which we differ most. However, the creation of a Scottish Parliament may see those differences creeping increasingly into the world of politics and economics as time goes by.

You mention the "concept of small nation states", which I guess you would class as including Slovakia, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovenia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Malta, all of whom have populations like Scotland's of less than 5˝ million and all fully fledged members of the EU, UN and in some cases NATO in their own right. Less worthy peoples/places than the big boys like England? Please... yes they are part of larger organisations but that in no way means that they then assimilate the larger members of aforesaid organisations to the extend their identity vanishes into thin air and they all turn into, in this case, Europeans with nothing of their former selves remaining.


Come for a visit sometime, you'll see the same applies here.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 17:55
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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You'll never win the argument with a Scot over their inferiority complex. It's inbred. Allow them to enjoy their subsidised 'lifestyle' while it lasts. The rot in the union has started, the talking shop has opened in the world's ugliest building next to Hollyrood House and in my view they'll be a separate country before too long. Then the fun will start as they go bankrupt in months.

As for the soccer, Scotland outplayed France and deserve full credit for the victory. Meanwhile England played woefully against Macedonia and got the result they deserved. Taking the long view, though, there's no comparison between the relative achievements of the two teams.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:05
  #31 (permalink)  
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County Pride....
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:16
  #32 (permalink)  
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Maxbunny:

3 words... NORTH SEA OIL.

The proceeds of which has been bailing out successive Chancellors over the years daan sarf.

If anything therefore, WE'RE subsidising YOU LOT!

(Besides you NEED us running the place, you can't seem to run it yourselves )
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:16
  #33 (permalink)  
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Scotland outplayed France
No they didn't...they were shit. First half was like watching England in disguise. Boring, predictable et al. Second half saw a bit more life, but if the truth be told, France really should've buried us after the first 20 mins.

Now that's the difference. England are generally surly in defeat and surly in victory. Scotland at least have the good grace to recognise, come win, draw or lose to applaud an opposing team. Try it sometime - you might even make friends the world over, not just the UK
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:22
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Dickbunny,

Last time I looked north sea oil was from nowhere near Scotland.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:26
  #35 (permalink)  
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I suggest you look again then

Also, this thread might apply too
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:46
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Colmac,

Do I detect just a hint of a chip on the shoulder, or even an inferiority complex??

Now just run along and swat midges.

Just for the record, I'm a huge supporter of independence for Scotland. The sooner the better.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:48
  #37 (permalink)  
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Scotland on Sunday, January (Well known English rag.) : ...."Would an independent Scotland have done better with North Sea oil? A slower rate of depletion could well have helped create a huge Norway-style fund. But there are big challenges to this counter-factual, even assuming the 80% apportionment was legally upheld. First, would the oil companies have gone along with slower extraction? After all, they had sunk enormous capital into North Sea exploration and development, much of it borrowed in expectation of near-term payback.

Second, would the North Sea oil revenue (now £4.3bn) under this alternative model now be yielding more than the £11.3bn subsidy currently paid to Scotland?"


Anyway, what's that got to do with Scottish football. Unless you were expecting there would have been an Angus MacBramovitch to bring in a few more good players.....
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:59
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC,

I see we are from the same place! I'll look out for you.

Good point, by the way, and one that many a MSP will ignore in their arguments.
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 18:59
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maxburner View Post
You'll never win the argument with a Scot over their inferiority complex. It's inbred.
I might be inbred, but I'm not inferior!
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Old 8th Oct 2006, 19:00
  #40 (permalink)  
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Tsk, tsk Maxibunny who's touchy now?

So most of the N.Sea oil is NOT off the coast of Scotland?

Funny, I must be imagining all those helicopters I see every day then. And those AREN'T oil company buildings I see either.

Face it, the SNP revealed that successive UK Govts were SH!T-SCARED that Scots would find out the true value of the stuff in the 70s, so concealed the info. Terrified no doubt that they would miss out on their share.
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