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Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

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Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Old 5th Jan 2006, 14:07
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

(which has just finished booking a driver for doing 110 mph 12 inches from someones rear bumper, and is preparing to drive off).
At the other hand, still speculating of course, it could be "the officers just had finished their cup of coffee and were busy checking the Hereford racing results."
Talking about safety and reading the article, the lady was not the only person being confused by the motorway signs, maybe something to think about?
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 16:39
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

BJ
If it's so dangerous stopping on the hard shoulder then that kind of begs the question 'whats it for then'?

We all know that accidents can happen on the hard shoulder- so what? They happen everywhere that vehicles go! Stopping on the hard shoulder 'in an emergency' overheating engine for example, is OK. Stopping for a minute to ask a cop, who plainly thought it safe to stop, for directions is hardly reckless. Stopping for a partially deflated tyre for example is acceptable.

For you it all seems so simple doesn't it? Either you're wrong or you're right. In real life things are rarely that simple and this policeman behaved in a manner that many take exeption to. Most decent cops would have had a word in her ear about stopping then given her the info she needed.

Another tiny wedge driven between cops and public.

Last edited by brain fade; 5th Jan 2006 at 16:51.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 17:02
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

brain fade

of the 1166 people killed on motorways in 2003, 196 were died because of involvement with vehicles on the hard shoulder. (the latest year I could find figures for)

For that reason, the advice is that if you break down and have to use it, get out and go onto the embankment, or ground the other side of any barrier.

The reason it's there is to keep broken down vehicles off the carraigeway, in the (sometimes vain) hope that the traffic will continue to flow.

No, it's not simple (see comment I made re starting point and 'unless there was a very very good reason'). On balance from what she says, I can see no good reason for her having to have stopped and put herself, and others in danger. She had ample chance to plan her route, and it seems from what she says, she didn't. She was not lost, it was hardly an emergency, and she had, again by her own admission just past a junction. She could have safely gone off there and either looked at her map, or asked.

weighing all that up, yes, I would have reported her (or issued a ticket).

If on the other hand, she was rushing to a hospital to see a sick relative, and had not had the time to plan, then no I wouldn't.

In spite of what you may think, my approach was if I had decided to report someone, then I was always willing to be swayed if there was good reason for someone having committed a traffic offence. The only exception to that being drink/drive.

It may have escaped your notice, but there are a fair number of others who have posted on here who also consider what the officer did to be correct.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 17:14
  #84 (permalink)  
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

"of the 1166 people killed on motorways in 2003, 196 were died because of involvement with vehicles on the hard shoulder. (the latest year I could find figures for)"

Which means that 970 people who were killed, were not involved with vehicles on the hard shoulder, at an average of 323 per lane but only 196 killed on the hard shoulder, surely this means that it is safer on the hard shoulder.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 18:09
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Yes but the very small percentage of the traffic that uses the whole road ever goes on the hard shoulder.


BJCC that is a very sobering bunch of numbers. 16% of deaths occur on the hard shoulder. Its alot worse than I thought.

MJ
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:02
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Oh for Goodness sake BJCC we all know that she shouldn't have stopped, nobody has denied that. The issue is whether the traffic cop should or shouldn't have issued the fine. Most people here seem to say no. What does that tell you about the public perception of Traffic police?

I have been stopped twice recently by traffic police. In one case I was given a warning for travelling at 90 mph on a motorway without observing the road (I didn't spot the coppers). Plenty of respect for him and his attitude and I drove away a safer driver.

Other time, clocked by a radar gun, near a school and a playground. Never seen a copper deal with the appalling behaviour at school chucking out time, and he did the speed trap when the school was on holiday. fair enough, i was speeding, but look at the difference in attitude. Which copper did more for road safety as well as public image?

I somehow don't see you as the first type of copper.

Now, why was the police car on the hard shoulder?
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:29
  #87 (permalink)  

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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

At the end of day she broke the law and got fined... end of story - fair or over the top reaction really doesn't come into it!

And yes I have spent a lot of time on the hard shoulder, (M25/M23/M3) protected by blues and reds in a marked car and it really is NOT the place to be unless you have no choice! Last incident I went to on hard shoulder involved 2 serious injuries and 1 fatal (in the same vehicle - a 3.5 tonne van) - they stopped with a puncture next to the 300 yard count down marker. The lorry driver that hit them was uninjured and didn't speak or read English so don't rely on others understanding the signs...

W.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:36
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

...Of course, the other side of the coin is that the woman does have the right to argue her case in court if she wishes.

"You May Not Use The Hard-Shoulder Except in Emergency!"

There is, to my knowledge, no clear legal definition of what an "Emergency" actually is and the woman not knowing her directions, being low on fuel and worrying that the next service area is xxx miles away could very well be considered an "emergency" - at least to her!!!

I think, if it was me, I would argue the case!
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 19:41
  #89 (permalink)  

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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

I am sure the lady in question is so outraged the courts will soon be adjudicating on the ticket and all will be revealed... Over here even when people are bang to rights they will request a court date for the ticket in the knowledge that over half the time Constable Cam Plod will not appear.

In any case, if the scenario as posited by Curious Pax is the case, can't blame Plod - I'd love to fine people who p!ss me off C$60 if I had the power.

On the other hand - maybe it's an equality thing - instead of black, asian, caribbean and scousers hating plod (obviously discrimination related) Tony Bliar's policy is to make everyone hate plod. And they wonder why no body comes forward with info when people get bashed!
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 20:00
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Originally Posted by brain fade
Most decent cops
What are they then?

It is right though, back in the days when police officers were gentlemen (long before bjcc's time) she would have been ticked off and sent on her way.

Not anymore.
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 21:25
  #91 (permalink)  

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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Ach, will somebody give the oul' gramophone a tap?

If eal does his homework, he'll note that the career of a police officer was "not intended to be an occupation for a gentleman". The words of a certain Sir Robert Peel, no less.

Anyways, this takes us back to an earlier issue: The demise of policing by discretion, in favour of one-size-fits-all procedures driven by the veneration of key performance indicators...
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 21:59
  #92 (permalink)  

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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

From all I've read here, I assume the police driver is also going to get a ticket for parking on the hard shoulder.

No? Hmmm...
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 23:13
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

eal401

That would be the 'good old days' when the Section Sergeant encouraged discression by telling his officers not to come back unless they had reported at least 2/3/4/5/6 or what ever number his mood dictated, for whatever offence he had a bee in his bonnet over that day would it?

That would be the 'good old days' when motivated by overtime (as Police pay was so bad overtime or taking bungs was the only way to live on it) a Police officer would stick as many in the book as he could, in the certain knowladge that they would be PM Court and probably when he was nights, means go early and get 4 hours OT irrespective of the amount of time at court.

Of course there was no internet then, so the same things that happened as happen now were not instantly commented on. Nor did women, or anyone else go rushing to the press to moan at someone taking action over their stupidity.

Of course they would be the 'good old days' of stitch ups, being rude to the public, and giving anyone who was stroppy a good kicking. If you were daft enough to complain you'd be nicked.

I am sure the "Gentlemen Police officers" of those days, would have let her off, for a fee, I mean, "it's cheaper than court madam".

Please, remove your rose tinted glasses, and throw away your videos of Dixon of Dock Green, he was fiction, just like the 'Good Old Days'
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Old 5th Jan 2006, 23:56
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

bjcc..

You are taking one hell of a bashing mate for nothing more than speaking the truth.

I too am a police officer and find it highly amusing reading some of these threads wereby some cop hating Pprunner feels the need to question a descision made by a police officer who was dealing with a potentially dangerous incident....

What he should have done is report her and let a magistrate fine her three times the amount Then she'll have a good reason to moan.
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 00:31
  #95 (permalink)  

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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

The trouble with anonymous boards is they allow people to say the most outrageous things which they would think twice about should they post under their real name.

I also believe that the majority of people in the UK appreciate that others do the job, the nastier aspects of which none of us would willingly do, for the relative pittance that a police constable earns.

I disagree intensely with the current scientifically and factually unsound obsession with vehicle speed but have the intelligence to realise that traffic police do not set policy. I have also argued with bjcc several times, I can't recall either of us demonstrating the paucity of our intellectual arguments by resorting to personal abuse.

I have been stopped once or twice in the past 30 odd years, generally for good reason and, funny enough, never had a ticket.

Couldn't possibly be because I was polite and listened before giving my side of the story could it?

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the daft tart stopped on the motorway to ask directions was told of her folly. I wonder what her reaction was?

No let me guess, given the indignant manner in which she has behaved since.
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 01:08
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

TLT

I have to say I agree about some of the unfair bashing that has gone on. I'm not entirely sure that referring to the police as 'pigs' is keeping the debate on the straight and level, shall we say.

The questioning of our decisions is something we all have to face these days, in whatever role we have chosen. Sometimes, it's not always a bad thing. It keeps the balance in one's mind and makes sure that when we have to make future decisions, we tend to have a broader picture, or at least makes us stop and think for a second. And that does of course work both ways. Hers was a silly thing to do (IMHO) and she should have thought about whether or not stopping was a sensible thing to do - but should she have been fined for it? On the other side, was that an entirely fair and balanced reaction, when a verbal clip round the ear would have done (shortening the actual time she was on the hard shoulder)? As I said earlier, I think both weren't terribly clever, but the policeman won't get fined for his. And that's what will breed the dissent. Gaining respect is not just about 'winning the arguement', it's about displaying that your decision/position is both fair and balanced, taking everything into account (and not being one-sided) - even if they don't necessarily agree with the final decision.

Trips

Last edited by Trip Switch; 6th Jan 2006 at 01:19.
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 01:44
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

I don't agree with what the Plod did...

I think that a £30 fine was nowhere near enough for her stupidity. Try more like £300 and a dangerous driving charge. Her licence should have been revoked for at least 12 months as well.

It's people like her that cause the fatalities on the roads with their idiot and clueless driving. Has she not heard of a road atlas? Or is she that stupid that doesn't know how to read one? I'll bet that she hasn't even read the Highway Code; probably doesn't even know what one is.

As an artic driver covering approximately 130,000 miles per year between the wagon and my own motor, I see this kind of stupidity on the roads every day and I can't praise the plod enough for their actions in this case, and this comes from someone who strongly dislikes the plod as a rule. Glad to see they're finally pulling their fingers out of the arses and doing something useful.

Cheers,

RK
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 01:59
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Actually TLTthe bashing that BJCC gets is for repeatedly failing to answer anyone's questions, and keep harping on about how stupid the woman was.

We are still debating...
Whether the fine was an appropriate response
Whether she was further endangered by having to wait to "go in the book" (I hate that expression)
Why the police car was on the hard shoulder at the time
And just to add to the general discussions.. one assumes that whoever may hit her on the hard shoulder would actually be guilty of dangerous driving themselves - can't really legislate for that can you?

What next? Fined for eating an apple? (really happened) Fined for adjusting your pony tail in slow moving traffic (really happened) Fined for opening a kit kat whilst driving (never actually happened - his wife had unwrapped it for him, police were wrong...)
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 07:20
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Mr Chips



Was the fine appropriate? Well, thats a matter of opinion. We seem to accept she was wrong. There are those that say a verbal warning would have ben better. Apart from Grainger and his 'pragmatic' approach, no one has justified why it would have been more appropriate.

On the other hand, 3 people have asked the same question, why she didn't look at her map book before she left home, or stop and look on the way.

Why was the police car on the hard shoulder? No idea. Was it on the hard shoulder, on on a raised emergency vehicle point? Could be any number of reasons. If you, her or anyone else feels that strongly, complain to the IPCC.

Had she, or anyone else been hit on the hard shoulder, then the other driver may well be guilty of dangerous driving, but thats not really the issue. The point is she should not have been there in the first place.

If you want petty cases, I can recall a traffic officer at the begining of my career reporting someone for not signing theri drivers licence, now thats petty!
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Old 6th Jan 2006, 07:40
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Woman who stopped to ask Police for directions given fine

Sorry bjcc, I made the mistake that assuming police officers were once decent human beings. Didn't realise.

Selcalweb:
It's people like her that cause the fatalities on the roads with their idiot and clueless driving.
So, she believing that pulling over to ask a police officer rather than tonking along trying to read a road atlas makes her a dangerous driver? I'll remember that next time some d1ckhead in an artic commences one of his "manoeuvre, signal, f*ck the mirrors" actions whilst I am in the lane alongside or about to overtake. A damn sight more dangerous than someone acting like this woman, particularly when said artic driver is having his dinner, on his phone etc.

Oh, and why is stopping for a non-emergency reason more dangerous than breaking down exactly? I don't understand this logic, or lack thereof. Legality notwithstanding.

the lady was not the only person being confused by the motorway signs, maybe something to think about?
Not if you are a traffic officer, never mind that the design of the M42 (assuming this is the road in question) differs from the standard in most of the rest of the country.
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