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Driving At 159mph Is Safe

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Driving At 159mph Is Safe

Old 25th Aug 2006, 18:36
  #161 (permalink)  
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It is dangerous in so much that a driver doing say 70mph coming up behind a vehicle will glance in his mirror see a car a couple of hundred yards away will just indicate and pull out, which even if the other car is doing say 85, would be safe to do, I think the only way the police should be permitted more than 20mph over the roads limit should be by having blue lights on and the sirens going.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 18:53
  #162 (permalink)  
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The mark of a good driver is not having fast reactions! A really good driver should very rarely need anything other than gentle, considered, calm movements due to their observation and assessment of road/traffic conditions and awareness not only of what they can see, but also an expectation of what might happen.

I think the same is true of a good pilot.

When I first started flying I was given the best piece of advice that I think should be passed on to all trainee pilots.

Never let your plane go anywhere your brain hasn't already gone 5 minutes before!

The essence of a good driver is appropriate use of speed. I don't know the conditions prevailing when this officer commited the alleged offence, but I'm not sure you could ever have enough visibility to travel at such high speeds at night.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 18:56
  #163 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by matt_hooks
I'm not sure you could ever have enough visibility to travel at such high speeds at night.
MOST other vehicles are lit with tail-lamps, visible for miles.

Originally Posted by matt_hooks
Never let your plane go anywhere your brain hasn't already gone 5 minutes before!
A similar situation applies to high-speed driving. "Always plan your escape route." "33.3% of your attention forwards, 33.3% of your attention behind you, and 33.4% of your attention spread either side." "Don't enter a situation unless you can see an escape route."


Further opinion:- http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb...pic.php?p=7824

Last edited by G-CPTN; 25th Aug 2006 at 19:10.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:25
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Hey guys where does this idea he was off duty come from?
Driving an unmarked patrol car off duty?
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:38
  #165 (permalink)  
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I believe that he specifically went in when not on duty and took out the vehicle 'for a spin'. It might be that his superiors have chosen to overlook this, but I understood it was a premeditated action by PC Milton. If true, and if 'I' had been his super, I'd have confined him to barracks for a while to show that he couldn't 'take the law into his own hands'.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:48
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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I could be wrong but I understood that 'Dangerous Driving' was considerably more serious than 'Careless Driving'. Subject Plod was FOUND GUILTY of Dangerous Driving'. I cannot recall any previous reported case of anyone found guilty of Careless Driving being treated with anything approaching this degree of leniency ... special treatment ???
A question for G-CPTN ... just which lane on a multi carriageway is the 'Fast Lane' and which is the 'Slow Lane'? On the roads on which I drive there is a driving lane - that which is furthest to the left which has space to accomodate one. The remaining lanes are for TEMPORARY occupation while overtaking and identified either by number, Lane 1, Lane 2 etc. OR inside lane , middle or outside. You wouldn't, by any chance, be a member of the Middle Lane Owners Club or, even worse, the 'I'm driving a FAST car, therefore I'm entitled to get to the outside lane immediately and remain there' brigade. Either would adequately explain your attitude to this further travesty of justice - the natural, not the judicial variety, of course.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:52
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Emotive? I was following your line that Great Aunts enter motorways at 40mph oblivious to other traffic, BMW drivers are on the phone in the fast lane, and because they think they can get away with it, Police trying for that 160mph mark.

We all agree that there are times when we want the Police to break speed limits, but PC Milton 'took the law into his own hands' to do 91 in a 30mph limit, then upto 130 in a 60, moving onto a 2 lane motorway to try for 160mph. There are others in prison for doing the same. The Courts did not take into consideration their driving skills when they were punished.

One Law for us....and the Police campaign for us to slow down and observe the limits set, how about do as we do rather than as we say.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:58
  #168 (permalink)  
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There was little or no traffic around when PC Milton was 'familiarising' himself.
Quite possibly true, but how could the driver have know what was 250 yards infront of him, when he was driving at 90mph in a built up area?
Did he have radar that allerted him to all vehicles and pedestrians?
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 19:59
  #169 (permalink)  
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I feel much safer now.

When I phoned the police to ask for help, and they told me, frankly they don't give a damn, it's comforting to know that if they did, they could get to me at 159 mph!!

I feel much safer now!!
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 20:10
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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One Law for us....and the Police campaign for us to slow down and observe the limits set, how about do as we do rather than as we say.
Yakker, It was his Police Force that called on the CPS to prosecute him. They wouldn't have done that if they thought it was one rule for them and one rule for us!! It was a Judge who gave him the sentence.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 20:15
  #171 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack
A question for G-CPTN ... just which lane on a multi carriageway is the 'Fast Lane' and which is the 'Slow Lane'?
My terminology was 'tongue-in-cheek'. Be aware that I don't cruise un-necessarily in any lane other than the nearside available lane. I despise the 'overtaking-lane' hoggers who are frequently the cause of severe congestion (and provoking some drivers to engage in undertaking and swerving into the outside lane - where there may not be a suitable gap - causing 'reaction' braking.).

Last Friday I undertook a 300-mile journey on the A1. Average speed for first two hours was 37.5 MPH, and after 3.5 hours I'd managed 140 miles.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 21:31
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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In respect of judging drivers against thier level of skill/how on earth do those that suggest it should happen suggest it is mesured?

A driving test? Which tests an ability to pull away, turn in the road an emergency stop and little else.

Against the avarage driver? Not a good idea, as the avarge ability is frankly rubbish!

The BBC mentioned retrial on 2 charges. Assuming that's accurate, what happened to the other one? What was the other one?

G-CPTN is absolutly correct, all trained police drivers are taught to look constantly for somewhere to go, if it goes bent. Planning is a large part of the advanced drivers course.

Which answers your point, 419 about what happens 250 yeards ahead. If there had been ahazard to effect him, he would have been going a great deal slower long before 250 yards. The teaches you to be looking as far as you can see, and anticipating hazards, that means looking for the line of trees, street lamps etc, which allow you to know, sometimes for miles where the road goes. Depending on visability.

Chases at those speeds are not unusal, especially when motorbikes are invloved. Race tracks are fine, but tend to be ideal, and not representive of public road conditions. Frankly, I would not be happy at the speeds he was driving at, that doesn't mean that it wasn't safe, just I wouldn't do it, and certainly would have pulled out of a chase at more than 120 on a motorway, or 80/90 on an A road(bear in mind I worked in London, not the countryside.). Then again, having scaped into getting an advanced ticket, and being fully aware of my own limitations, I know when to drop out.

That takes me back to the avarage driver, who, I'm afraid don't!

I think it will be interesting, if he does appeal to see what happens.

Oh, and heleport. It is not lawful for a Police officer to belong to a union, the Federation is a representative body, which really is toothless.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 21:54
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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G-CPTN In most areas you will be charged with dangerous driving for exceeding the speed limit by 30mph +/-

Most UK F1 Champions (extremely skilled in high speed driving) have been prosecuted for speeding on the road.

This PC is no 'plod' but 'plonker' and the Magistrate a 'muffin'

Watching 'Traffic Cops' recently and there was a traffic cop (not Panda) on his own in high speed urban pursuit giving running commentary over his personal radio which was not 'hands-free'
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 22:00
  #174 (permalink)  
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Most UK F1 Champions (extremely skilled in high speed driving) have been prosecuted for speeding on the road.
Indeed, not to mention the rally drivers given tickets in North Wales.

Now how about this for a really good excuse:

'Aliens made me drive too fast'
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 22:05
  #175 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Nov71
a traffic cop (not Panda) on his own in high speed urban pursuit giving running commentary
Something I never managed to master.
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Old 25th Aug 2006, 23:22
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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In most areas you will be charged with dangerous driving for exceeding the speed limit by 30mph +/-
That is not so. Dangerous Driving is a serious either-way offence for which the sentencing guideline starts at prison. Endorsement and/or disqualification for at least 12 months is mandatory. An extended re-test must be ordered.

I can only imagine that the District Judge must have found Special Reasons not to endorse, although none of the reports that I have read mention it.

The DJ concerned is an editor of Wilkinson's, the lawyers' bible on traffic law, so he certainly knew what he was doing.
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Old 26th Aug 2006, 03:12
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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"Dangerous Driving is a serious either-way offence for which the sentencing guideline starts at prison. Endorsement and/or disqualification for at least 12 months is mandatory. An extended re-test must be ordered."

If endorsement and/or disqualification for 12 months is MANDATORY on conviction how come the DJ didn't know this. Mandatory means no discretion allowed.
Even if you are the best driver in the UK when caught at 159mph the Police are likely to ask what you would have done if you had a blow-out at that speed. The DJ should have referred the case to Crown Court for jury trial - but that would have set a precedent!
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Old 26th Aug 2006, 03:21
  #178 (permalink)  
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Have I missed something here?

An off-duty copper decides he is really taken with the new whizz machine that his force has just got so he decides to take it for a spin at night when there is less chance of him getting caught:

a. Speeding
b. Taking the vehicle without permission (er...that would be stealing then would it?)

He then goes mental, egotistically thinking that he has the skills and attributes to cope with any unexpected road hazard at night with - as previously pointed out - headlights that reach out to a maximum of 100 metres and with a stopping distance in excess of 250 metres.

Having then been nicked he tries every craven and cowardly defence to get off the results of his stupidity instead of putting his hands up to it. Meanwhile, despite "suffering" for nearly 3 years during the disciplinary process he's back out on the street probably uttering the immortal phrase, "I don't care what your excuse is Sir, you were travelling over the speed limit and I will be issuing you with an infringement. The public highway is a dangerous place and antics like yours cannot be tolerated".

The idiots in the Police Federation ought to be whacked as well for condoning it.
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Old 26th Aug 2006, 03:36
  #179 (permalink)  
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I guess that Allan has SOME of the facts. It is possible that permission to drive the vehicle was 'implied'. I frequently attended when off-duty to talk with the drivers, and might impulsively take out a vehicle for 'appraisal' to endorse a reported condition, or even to familiarise myself (!).
What I SUSPECT happened (which was the undoing of PC Milton) was that HE activated the video camera (could presumably of switched it off) in order to show it to his colleagues in a bragging manner. One (or more) of those who observed his antics probably saw the opportunity to 'get one over him' and drew attention to the tape. Certainly at some stage one of his superiors obviously decided to 'report' him, and the rest, as they say, is about to become history. Had he NOT filmed his antics, no-one need have known, and even if others WERE aware, the would have been insufficient evidence for any prosecution.
So, hoisted by his own petard . . .
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Old 26th Aug 2006, 08:15
  #180 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Nov71
Endorsement and/or disqualification for at least 12 months is mandatory. An extended re-test must be ordered."
If endorsement and/or disqualification for 12 months is MANDATORY on conviction how come the DJ didn't know this. Mandatory means no discretion allowed.
I wonder what the law was about 30 years ago.

I had occasion to chase a guy in a new BMW who had come close to throwing 20 tons of petrol over a string of cars. One of these was mine, and I got the hump.

The Shell driver, who did a fantastic job of missing the overtaking motorist, said that my back wheels disappeared in a cloud of blue smoke as I set off after him. He was going at over 100 in a small country road in Essex and I would not have court up with him if he had not been held up at a junction. When I pulled across his bows, I got the surprise of my life...a retired gentleman at the wheel. He promised he would go back. But he didn't.

Picture a moderate decline, with just room say, for two lorries to pass each other. At the bottom of this 1/4 mile dip was a right bend. I was second in a line of cars all doing about 40. Suddenly I saw this orange BM in my mirror. I just couldn't believe it. There was no way....not a chance in hell, that he could have seen round the bend, and he was overtaking the entire row of cars at 70-80 mph straight at the blind corner.

As he passed the first couple of cars the worst happened, the Shell lorry came round the bend at about 40. I remember seeing the bowser lift up and white steam/smoke coming off the front wheels. A lot of it. The vehicle bounced a bit, breaking most of the suspension shackles. The BM had black-lined the road for some hundred yards and its speed was down...it was just able to get round the front car and was beating a hasty getaway. My blood was up, and I cared not a jot for the law at that moment.

The thing was, that I didn't really know what to do when I caught him. He seemed concerned and promised to go back, so I left it at that....until calling round my mate's house shortly before he was due to go on duty as a police m-cycle cop. He remarked that it was most bobby's dream to witness such diabolical driving. We chatted for a while and I left. An hour or so later his police bike pulled up outside my house.

The road...one that led to the local railway station, was blocked for hours. They had to hand pump 20 tons of fuel -- for reasons that I don't understand -- but the road was blocked with no other road to the station.

TCALSS...I was in a magistrate's court as a witness. What a total Fg farce! None of the Worships could get a clear picture of the proceeding...at one point I wanted to jump up and shout at them it was so fg bizarre. It was obvious that some of the witnesses were refering to an earlier overtake, but no one could make themselves clear.

His defense tried to make me look silly by deriding my description of seeing him in my ‘peripheral vision'. I waded into him until he was totally demolished, and he spent the next while trying to ‘de-hostile' me with platitudes about my ‘logical thinking.' What a dork.

Then it happened...and I'm sorry about our magistrate ppruners, but it was the final straw in my failing belief in the magistrate system....the main magistrate suddenly stood up, appologised that he had to leave FOR FCUKING TEA. This ‘Gentleman farmer' handed over the reins to some diminutive old red-faced soak in a tweed jacket. "I'm sure my able colleague will be able to continue without me."

Who the hell would have known, he looked dead...or near to it. Finally the retired (architect) stood up for sentencing. ‘Found guilty of dangerous driving, fined ??? quid, and licence endorsed.' The defendant bowed enthusiastically to the corpse on the bench.

What sort of message does this send out? The old boy network alive and well?
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