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Who wrote..? Qui a écrit..?

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Who wrote..? Qui a écrit..?

Old 8th Feb 2004, 03:40
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I'll mak siccar
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Who wrote..? Qui a écrit..?

Can any PPRuNer help me here? Years ago I read in some French text:

"Il y en a toujours l'un qui baise, et l'autre qui tourne la joue"

(my translation: There is always one of them who offers the kiss, and the other who turns the cheek).

That's as I remember it. I could be off on a word orwo, but that was the gist.

Who wrote it?
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Old 8th Feb 2004, 03:57
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Wasnt napoleon, was it?
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Old 8th Feb 2004, 04:31
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It starts 'in love....'

In love, there is always one who kisses and one who offers the cheek

old french proverb not attributed to anyone particular that I am aware of
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Old 8th Feb 2004, 05:58
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Well, my French must be a little more earthy than others, because to me, "baise" means something a bit more serious than kissing.

The poem was written about his gay lover:
"There is always one who ****s, and one who parts the cheeks."

But then, french wasn't le plus fantastique pour moi.
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Old 8th Feb 2004, 06:41
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Davaar

I think the wording would be :
"[En amour] Il y en a toujours un qui baise, et l'autre qui tend la joue"

Google only returned a couple links (the Aussie one is dead) plus 24 (similar) Russian links.

It is quoted at the beginning of "Two ways to love" by Susan Coolidge.

"Entre deux amants il y a toujours l'un qui baise et l'autre qui tend la joue."

Something quite similar by Honoré de Balzac :

"En amour, il y en a toujours un qui souffre et l'autre qui s'ennuie"

In love there is always one who suffers and one who gets bored.

I also found a French quote site

Boss Raptor

I guess you must be right, I could not find any author.

Ascend Charlie

You are definitely right.

The verb baiser used to mean kiss, and is still used unambiguously when directed to "correct" body parts, such as in "baise-main"="hand-kissing", "baiser la joue"="kiss the cheek" or "baiser le front"="kiss the forehead".
but "baiser quelqu'un" definitely has some nasty acceptions (not necessarily sexual).

Molière already used to play on the double entendre in the 17th century "Baiserai-je?"

Last edited by Bre901; 8th Feb 2004 at 07:04.
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Old 8th Feb 2004, 17:17
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Exclamation

Goodness gwacious! I seem to have had a post banned! Could it be twue?

Mods?

You might have had Bins, but it sounds unlikely. Sure it wasn't finger trubs?

Last edited by flapsforty; 9th Feb 2004 at 02:09.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 01:28
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Madam and Gentlemen:

Thank you for all the help. Very interesting.

Ascend and Boss:

My French is more "workmanlike" than fluent, but I did know there was something ambivalent about "baiser". Still, "baise" was the verb I remembered reading.

Long ago I had a book entitled "Bozziemacoo", a study of swearing in, again I go by memory, Canada. "Bozziemacoo" was itself a testimony to the enrichments of multiculturalism, since it derived from "baisez mon cul"".

We are wandering, perhaps, from the original point, but in fairness to the French , and I want always to be fair to the French, they do not deserve all the credit or blame for the imagery, distressing as it must be to your average PPRuNer of refinement.

I make that qualification because of Bagg's Case (1615) 11 Co. Rep. 93b, 99a, which arose after one James Bagg, a chief burgess of Plymouth, had engaged in unbecoming conduct vis-a-vis the mayor, as by saying "You are a cozening knave", "I will make thy neck crack", and by "turning the hinder part of his body in an inhuman and uncivil manner" towards the mayor and saying "Come and kiss".

Now there, I suppose, it would have been "baiser".

Anyway, Mr Bagg emerged triumphant.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 02:10
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Mais où sont les baisers d'antan?
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 02:16
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Je pas. Mais les neiges sont aux cheveux.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 02:41
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Davaar

You see me a bit puzzled

I guess that "Je pas" stands for "je ne sais pas", but what about "aux cheveux" ? a bit pulled by the hairs, if I may say so.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 02:44
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Ceci me rappelle une chanson paillarde du temps jadis.

"For the hairs on mine are silver,
And the hairs on yours are gold.
Let us put them both together,
Silver hairs among the gold."
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 03:15
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Sorry, Mr Bre. This is a lesson to me for trying my luck in French. I took Dr Knife's allusion to the baisers d'antan to be a play on Villon's "neiges d'antan" from Ballade des Dames du Temps Jadis. I was suggesting that the snows of yesteryear have not disappeared, but in the hoary locks have left their mark. Mine anyway. Come to think of it, not so very different from the theme of The Picture of Dorian Grey.

I think the good Doctor caught it with his silver threads among the gold.

Moving right along with the hair, does anyone know the source of or complete text of the Victorian/Edwardian children's verses:

A little lass with golden hair,
A little lass with brown,
A little lass with raven locks,
Went tripping into town.

It runs on for a few verses and then concludes, as we might expect, with A Moral.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 03:51
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Well, I can't find it anywhere Davaar. Sounds a bit Browningy (Robert, not EB) bit I can't pin it down.

I hope you won't take it amiss, but the following sprang to mind...

KING LEAR:
Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanes, spout
Till you have drench'd our steeples, drown'd the cocks!
You sulphurous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Smite flat the thick rotundity o' the world!
Crack nature's moulds, all germens spill at once,
That make ingrateful man!

Fool:
O nuncle, court holy-water in a dry
house is better than this rain-water out o' door.
Good nuncle, in, and ask thy daughters' blessing:
here's a night pities neither wise man nor fool.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 04:12
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Donnerwetter!

Thank you for looking. I once traced it to Boston, Mass., ca 1890. When the library arranged an inter-library loan, hey had sent the second edition, and the verses I was seeking were in the first edition, or vice versa. The trail died there. The verses did have currency in UK children's story books 1915 or so to 1935 or so. I'll keep looking.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 04:46
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Well, don't worry Mr Davaar, I am not a French teacher and I do appreciate anyone's efforts to speak/write that difficult language, especially in these days.

Please do not take any offence from my comments or remarks, I'm just trying to help.

To answer "Mais où sont les neiges d'antan ?", one would probably say "Elles sont dans mes cheveux"
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 05:17
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Merci, mon vieux.

"James Bridie" (O H Mavor) (1888 to 1951) was a Scottish author, playwright, physician, humourist and general good chap. Inter alia, he enjoyed some success on Broadway.

He served through WW1 in France as a medical officer in the RAMC.

He also wrote an autobiography, in which he addressed the difficulties of speaking French and concluded: "I speak French as French should be spoken. If the French choose to speak it in some other way, that is entirely their problem". I have always thought it a rather good rule.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 05:30
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How lucky are the English!

They are able to joke about hair from here and there,
Confusing the audience,
While our French comb is used only for "cheveux" and never for "poils"..........................
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 05:41
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I think Gramps is trying to underline the difference between cranial hair (cheveux) and body hair (poils). A hirsute man is thus 'poilu'.

So Gramps, how would you translate 'libre mais pas gratuit' into rosbif?

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Old 9th Feb 2004, 06:13
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As I think you refer to a dame,I would say :"Available but not free of charge"
Other better translations of course exist but my command of English is not to that standard.
Davaar
You have a few ladies in your hair!That's because,to Villon,those beauties of yesteryear (Snowy hillocks and all) are the snows which precede the blossoms of to-day's springtime.
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Old 9th Feb 2004, 06:49
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Actually, I was thinking of a car park that is free but not free.

In your example, are you assuming a woman who is 'libre' (free) is 'disponible' (available)? If so, the feminists are going to have a fun time with you, mon pôte.

un de ces 4 (and translate that!)

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