Rudestuff is undoubtedly correct in what he says, the (f)ATPL courses will continue as the majority already well into the process are likely to continue.
Those course members who have yet to start flying might well decide to cut their losses and stop training.

The dilemma facing those about to start is whether to continue if money is no object; the vast majority will undoubtedly think again about being an aviator, or delay sine die.

The ATOs will undoubtedly start to shrink significantly with a semi arid desert by 2021, although any military contracts will probably continue unhindered.
Attractive deals will start to emerge for the brave & the bold.


My heart goes out to all trainees but especially to the MPL customers who training have come to an abrupt stop.
Jumping to the (f)ATPL route is the only option if a professional licence still remains the immediate goal, with the shortfall of the flying training to complete.

The MPL will be the last style of course to eventually restart but only once the green shoots are well established.

You seriously need to avoid embarking on this course right now.

A moderator on this site used to refer to the "Wannabe zombie army". Judging by some posts here, it seems that its march continues unabated even now

Thanks for all your answers !

But is it possible to have just facts and not empty sentences without arguments like "forget this job" or something like that ?

There are a lot of threads available to create your own way of thinking in this forum ... So if we could only have facts here from CAE or Easy, that would be great !

Thank you for understanding.

I noted on cae the programme is showing as closed.

You're on a forum page, if you want absolute validated facts then I suggest you get in contact with the ATO directly so it comes from the horse's mouth, CAE/Easy do not use these forums to communicate directly.

As said above, the programme is closed for applications, people in the system already are genuinely at risk of job offer suspension/termination, if you want that fact validated, don't take it from me, many of those finishing training have social media and are already starting to show the pressure.

To paraphrase William Pitt the Younger in 1806:

“Roll up the map of Europe as it wouldn’t be needed for 10 years”
or in your case for up to 3 years....
Start training not before 2022 is my best guess

planesandthings

I didn't say that I wanted an absolutely validated fact, but perhaps someone who is currently in training has more information about the situation inside the school. And I am sure that the information he will give us will be much better than "Forget this job", "avoid an integrated", "do not waste your money" etc ... We can read these things anywhere on the forum. This is why I try to refocus this thread on the information we want. I think "we" just want to talk about CAE and EZY here. That's all.

You seem to not fully appreciate that a Tsunami of gigantic magnitude has hit the aviation machine.
There is not a lot to talk about.....it is in ICU on life support and will be for sometime.
Transfer to High Dependancy 2021.
Back on a Ward 2022/23.
Convalescence 2024/25.

Start talking aviation after 2021. Go into higher education ~ become fluent level 6 in English until at least then.

Thanks for the good advice, but I actually got a master and I'm a physical education instructor in high school, so, I got my plan B :)

I understand there is a big tsunami, we only can heard things about this on every thread in this forum. If I want things about the covid-19, I'll read on the topics who's refer to it. But, I passed the stage 2, and I just want to know what will be happen for all who's wait a stage 3...

Once again, I read many things in this forum, also about this crisis but this not the topic...

Anybody who is considering opening money on Flight training of any type right now .........crazy.

I have some skin in the game in the orange machine .

If you'd like to wire the money to my account I will call you every day and tell you how wonderful you are , you will be getting much more than if you throw money at flight training for the foreseeable,
There are likely to be 1000's of qualified type and line experienced pilots floating around the world for years now . Flybe ,TCX,Monarch just the ones that have already gone and left many pilots no longer flying .

Massive furloughs and redundancies possible from BA/EZY/VS in fact everyone, even the solvent carriers = 1000's ahead of you when/if hiring ever restarts in the next 5 years.

The golden years have gone where you could remortgage mum and dads house and have an EZY command in 6 years at the age of 25. Gone for good.

I second what NF has said above. Even allowing for a significant number of the soon-to-be unemployed pilots walking away from the industry forever, it's hard to see a way into the industry for a newbie for a very long time to come.

I urge you, used Linkedin, social media. There you will get a better idea and will be able to easily contact people and see the sceanrio.
But do you really think it's easy for these affected individuals to immediately talk, this is very raw for a lot of people, devastated over what probably is a life dream, people who are facing large training bills and no job for the foreseeable future, others potentially facing some form of redundancy, maybe even some form of bankruptcy or credit agreements as the loans need repaying. This isn't hype, this is the reality of when an industry is in freefall, and for a lot of people, they will not want to talk right this minute, they want advice too, this is absolutely life changing.

On here, search on the terms and endearment forum for Non TR EasyJet Recruitment, there you will see posts from 'Larki' who's son on EasyJet MPL has had his contract terminated as a result of Covid 19 by EasyJet during the Type Rating phase, it's not a nice thing to read and my thoughts are with those people facing this stark reality.

Says it all

https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/covi...7f8ee-56731165

Don't be surprised if you hear nothing at all........you know the answer, unfortunately......

NIL FURTHER~ the ECA link is conclusive evidence

In the same boat as many of you. I was supposed to begin training on the easyjet MPL on 14th of April, but was told at the end of March that obviously this would be 'postponed' and a new start date would be confirmed in the next 'few weeks'. I'm not hopeful to be honest, when you step back and look at the wider situation you really do have to be realistic.

All has gone quiet since then, and CAE are extremely slow at responding to emails, as you'd expect at the minute (especially when you are asking the tricky questions). It's just a matter of waiting for now, at least until there are some firm plans for Europe starting to get back onto it's feet. Beyond that point will have its own challenges, so it's by no means a given that even if the course goes ahead that it wouldn't get pulled at some point during training - that is what worries me the most if I'm honest. CAE and easyJet will need to be very upfront with the terms and conditions surrounding this, because there is no way I'll be signing up to something that has a high chance of being pulled.

I agree with a few of the other comments above, we all know that everyone loves to voice their opinion on the industry, but just spouting constant 'negative spam' is counterproductive. No one is asking for sunshine and rainbows, but FACTS regarding CAE and/or easyJet is what this thread is about. For the good of everyone who is trying to use this thread for sharing information on this topic, we should keep it to just that. Finding good info is difficult at the best of times, but with all the extra 'crap' it's even more of a needle in a haystack than it needs to be.

@pilotmatt2020
 

Mate I gave you all the facts you need.

maybe you want to ignore the data and overwhelming evidence, not good.

for the avoidance of doubt

1. I have some skin in the orange machine.
2. Do not, do not. give any money to anyone for pilot training for the foreseeable,
im talking 2 - 3 years.
3. I can easily foresee 20% redundancies across the industry, see BA announcement this evening.

if after all this you still want to waste your money, my offer to call
you every day and stroke your ego stands . Just wire me the cash and we can talk.

Just another 2c from the industry..

If you are thinking about starting flying training at any point in the next 2-3 years then don’t. If you are in groundschool I would highly recommend taking the £5k hit and leaving. This industry is about to be decimated. There will be mass redundancies meaning a flooded job market. I have flown with many Captains who graduated flight school in 2008 and then spent 2 years searching for an initial job.

This situation is much, much worse. In 2008 the banks pissed a lot of money away and the economy got hit fairly hard. But life went on, people still went to work and it recovered. This is on a different scale. If, and when restrictions are (slowly) lifted, the absolute last thing to go will be international air travel. And even if that’s allowed it could be very well followed with 2 weeks quarantine for any foreigners landing. That’s the end of the holiday market. Cadets could be facing waits of several years for the job market to recover. Do not indebt yourself and your family for this, it is not worth it. No one has any idea what is going to happen past next week, there is no exit plan, there could be a second wave. Life may not return to normal ever again.

There was some Ryanair FO on instagram talking about how it could be a good time to start training as in 18 months they will be hiring again. Do not listen to people like this. Most insta-pilots are responsible for 95% of the material online and they make up a tiny percentage of the workforce and they are not seen favourably from within.

Also it’s a pretty safe bet to ignore anything L3 or CAE tell you, they will lie to your face in order to get you to sign the line and pay them 6-figures. The sales reps work on commission and will say anything for their cut. Asking CAE if you should start training is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas...

The whole airline industry pretty much relies on the public’s disposable income, in any recession holidays and travel are one of the first things to go.
You are all in fortuitous positions not being in the industry. For the time being, keep it that way.

Also so don’t think (as I did) that being an MPL will offer you any form of protection, the latest MPL course who joined the company earlier this year have had their contracts terminated and told to PFO.

Think about it.

Icelandair just shed 2000 jobs .... i guess this is the start...

don’t waste all that money guys its a lot !

I feel for you. It's the worst situation that has ever occurred in Airline history. There are literally thousands of Pilots now, worldwide, out of work. Many experienced Pilots don't know how they'll feed their Children in the coming years and I do mean that literally. The good info which you're looking for doesn't exist. I'm extremely sorry for that. I'm sorry for all of my colleagues who are fearful right now.

Please stop dismissing the reality, we work in this part of the industry, I have colleagues in airlines who are in absolute pieces trying to work out how they'll stop the bailiffs coming in on their training debt and to provide for their family, one even works for a flag carrier, another for EasyJet and to see us dismissed as 'negative spam' is frankly insulting to these individuals. If you need evidence of this then I'm sure many of us, myself included will be able to provide you with it via DM.

You ask for real examples. As I said earlier in the thread, search on the terms and endearment forum for Non TR EasyJet Recruitment, there you will see posts from 'Larki' who's son on CAE EasyJet MPL has had his contract terminated as a result of Covid 19 by EasyJet during the Type Rating phase. If you believe that it's negative spam then send a message the individual. You said recently that you want the 'relevent pieces of information' and guarantees, if the above isn't enough to show you that it isn't guaranteed then I'm not sure what will, FlyBe went under with MPL cadets having started only months before, many of us knew FlyBe were in trouble but the courses still rolled on, Flybe MPL trainees/graduates have posted in the last few weeks on this forum about their woes and are potentially facing further cost to convert their MPL training to ATPL.
Unless EasyJet is paying or securing finance for your training they hold almost no risk to letting you continue training which you are paying for personally because they will be able to terminate contracts (as shown in an example above) if there is deemed any threat to the going concern of the business, they won't even blink an eye in exercising these rights in your training contract as all contracts have been passed through the legal team who have ensured CAE/EasyJet can call the shots whilst costing them almost nothing. At the same time they can hire you if it turns out there is no problem as has been the case until now.
As such, you carry the financial burden, and the risk! Does this sound unfair? Of course, and that's why many of us are so vocal about how bad the industry has got, Aer Lingus on the other hand paid for their recent new pilots to train to completion in 2020 and now the industry has gone wrong, Aer Lingus carries the financial burden and risk, those pilots though without any flying to do are reasonably relaxed with no debts compared to EasyJet peers, some of which are 100k in debt.

The facts of those employed are today that nearly all of EasyJet's current pilots are furloughed or have taken serious paycuts, anyone in the training system has stopped training and is at risk on termination, a lot of this is on a master thread in PPRUNE. Nobody knows when we will be allowed out to socialise again, let-alone go flying across the world. Pilot George's blog which is searchable online, who probably wrote the best and honest training blog that has ever existed spells out the current situation well and the horrifying financial implications it may have if unable to pay training debts. It also mentions the exact same situations of some MPL contracts being revoked at the end of training.

I appreciate this might be a lifelong dream for you as it is for many and that the reality is very hard to swallow, but please, none of us get any 'kick' out of writing what is happening, it would take a rather sick individual to do so, we'd much rather write how absolutely booming it is and how all of us are getting pay rises and promotions. But at the moment many of us get the feeling you and others are seeking positive answers or more-so 'confirmation bias' to assure yourself that you should start training, having spent time writing this out for your benefit I urge you to take a more balanced view. All of us want re-assurement, but in your position, you have nothing to lose by delaying training.

This will get better in years to come, but now is not the time to be pursuing that dream you're imagining, it doesn't exist for now.

Good luck.

PM2020
You knew in March that the writing was on the wall, and you, with your aviation background, even more aware than others with a course placement that a devastating tsunami alert had been sounded.

You were smelling the coffee then......your olfactory organ has since become impaired...

Stick with the day job if that aviation option still exists.

MPL Update
 

Just as an update I have just received the following letter from Easyjet. I passed stage 3 in Feb so was yet to get a start date.


Firstly I hope you and your loved ones are all safe and well. I trust that you are finding ways to make good use of your time whilst your training has been suspended.

We can all see the scale and impact this virus is having on every part of our society and our economy. The travel industry has in particular been hit badly and it may take a long time to fully recover, even after restrictions are lifted. I am quite sure that you personally are extremely worried about what this means for your future as a pilot. You will no doubt have seen that easyJet has grounded its entire fleet, and most of our employees are furloughed or on extended leave. We have been very focused on preserving cash in order to be able to ride out a prolonged grounding. As part of these cash preservation measures we have completely frozen all recruitment across the business.

I am writing to you following your successful selection to join the Generation easyJet Pilot Training Programme (GePTP). Unfortunately, as a result of the impact of the pandemic, we have had to take the difficult decision to suspend the GePTP programme which means that your progression will be stopped at this time. CAE have been made aware of this decision, and they will be in touch with you directly about your options now which will include transferring you onto a CAE ATPL programme. If you have paid a deposit to CAE in respect of the GePTP programme, CAE will refund this to you

I know this will be a very difficult time for you due to the uncertainty that lies ahead and I am sorry we cannot proceed as planned. However I can confirm that your easyJet selection results will still stand for the next 12 months while we navigate through this difficult period so, when we start hiring again, you will be amongst the first to be selected. I’m afraid I can’t tell you when that might be yet as it will depend on how quickly the world recovers from this event.

Whilst I am absolutely certain that airlines will recover, as air travel is so important in our societies, it is also clear that the recovery process is going to take some time. This means that the career that you have chosen will still be there for you – but it may take some time before you are in a flight deck of a commercial airliner. My advice to you would be firstly, remain optimistic and secondly, once flying commences and opportunities arise anywhere, go for them. Don’t sit back and wait for your dream flying job to come to you.

In the meantime stay safe, keep your enthusiasm for flying and at the earliest opportunity try and get in the air!

Thanks Richard for sharing this with us, it is good to see EasyJet making a quicker move than we perhaps expected to be upfront about this.

However, picking out some of what has been mentioned.

Anyone considering to transfer to the CAE ATPL programme as some sort of alternative/next best thing after the UKs largest airline has stopped recruiting for an indefinite period is sorely mistaken and it's disappointing that they are happy to sell people down this path currently whilst thousands of pilots are set to lose jobs, but again we must view flight training as business not a charity that of course will sell their product even if there are no jobs to graduate in to as CAE stand to lose serious levels of revenue also and sadly staff too. I seriously hope nobody with a clear head reading that would even contemplate doing an untagged course until at least Q4 2020 when we have a clearer idea of this crisis, unless you've recently won the lottery.

As for the selection results, Gatwick Airport, Norwegian and IATA alike are suggesting at the earliest it will be Q1 2022 before any significant amount of normality might be expected. The fact that results will stand for just 12 months is likely just lip service and in reality means the process will be re-started from scratch whenever the magic time comes to actually recruit new pilots which given those that will lose their jobs and those in training currently, could be a good few years. Time to focus on the other career methinks, and come back to all this when the bloodbath is over. But thanks for sharing.

No problem - knowledge is power in these types of situations so best to share when possible. When I get the call from CAE I will try and not sound sarcastic when I tell them it's probably not in my best interest to pay more for an ATPL with less job prospects at the end than the MPL. I think I will go do my PPL now - even if in 12 months Easyjet decide to reopen recruitment having a PPL won't do me any harm.

Good strategy. Even if no tagged MPL scheme comes up, going modular step by step and with a reputable school will give you the same ticket and the same skills in the end. Moreover, it's certainly better to have control over your training timeline and expenses in these uncertain times.

Doing a PPL will keep the interest in flying, and if in two to three years time, there are signs of green shoots, then you have begun down the modular route.

Read skyblue12 & others postings about the reality of the job to get a feel for what is in store.

Flying the Loganair Otters is probably the best commercial job going.

The chances of reopening the EZY scheme in 12 months is non existent. There is more chance that Elvis is on the moon.

Fantastic idea and will put you at no disadvantage, especially for a few years whilst banks will refuse to loan for people taking integrated courses, this may be a really good step to take so that you continue working whilst continuing to build skills skills. EasyJet had been taking cadets from modular backgrounds more readily recently, to the displeasure of a few and ultimately no matter if you spend 130,000 or 55,000 you end up with exactly the same blue licence book that says you're deemed suitable to operate aeroplanes.

Right now regardless of the route taken, those just graduating from the shiniest school to the smallest are finding that they're all in the same boat with getting a job. Their only differences being how much they paid.

Easyjet MPL - pilot george
 

not CAE but L3 but still an Easyjet MPL graduate and still with major debt- should be required reading for anyone thinking of any MPL training now!

https://www.pilotgeorge.co.uk/blog/p...m-coronavirus/

To be correct on what his blog states, George was a Whitetail ATPL cadet who then got a job with EasyJet after graduation. I believe looking at PilotGeorge on facebook, he is furloughed.

By far the best blog written and very honest. Wishing you all the best along with the many others if you're reading this George.

I got the same letter as Kenneth above, was due to start my course this month. Fortunately I hadn’t quit my current job as I saw the writing on the wall.

Nevertheless, was pretty disheartening as long time wannabe (with more applications under my belt than I care to remember). Who knows if/when another opportunity like this will crop up.

Anybody know what happened to those already on/part way through the course? Feel bad for all those in a difficult position right now.

Nobody knows when things will be better. Lots of people have lots of views on recovery time and impact, but all of it is pure conjecture. Once a vaccine is developed the world will change again....... but how fast and how far...... we will see.

Anyone mid-way through the course in Europe have had to stop temporarily anyway as flying schools are mostly closed due to government restrictions.
Those at the end of their training have had any offer of a job rescinded by EasyJet and effectively told they'll go into a pool indefinitely, I believe it's down to the student to pay to remain current (unless corrected). Of course one of the disadvantages all along with the MPL was the difficulty to transfer it or get a job flying something small single pilot which the ATPL graduates could can do. All of this stress whilst for some, the repayments for the courses loom. Many of the posts above explain further.

I understand that EasyJet MPLs currently in the Ground School phase of training haven’t received any communication regarding the future of their course yet. Depending on school, some are completing a very limited amount of online classroom based training.

If anyone has anymore information on those currently part way through their training I’d be interested to hear.

Current easyJet MPL student
 

I am currently an EasyJet MPL student, having just completed ground school. I can confirm that we have not had any news from easyJet as of yet. We have been told we will receive an update shortly.

In addition to courses that were due to start being cancelled, some who have just started have also been cancelled. Things are not looking hopeful.

It’s incredibly frustrating, I have worked for 10years to save money for training for my dream job, in addition to giving up my career, it now feels so far away. I agree with comments above, if we do get the bad news that the MPL course is being pulled, I don’t think I will pay more money to convert to an ATPL course. There just isn’t any point given the massive number of surplus pilots out there. Unfortunately I’ve got to be realistic.

If I were to continue my training it most likely be down the modular route. I am in the fortunate position that I haven’t paid for any of the flying as of yet so can get out of this without having incurred too much damage, unfortunately some are not as fortunate.

I hadn’t heard about courses that had already started being cancelled. Do you know if they were the new style Generation EasyJet courses being run in Oxford?

Worrying times for all concerned. Good luck with your training & don’t lose faith.

I'm also an easyJet MPL cadet who just finished phase 1 of ground school before everything came to a stop.

What do you know about the courses that have already started being cancelled? Does this apply to those who started in 2020 under the new MPL contract?

Cheers

Livethedream83

As you say, you are at a comparatively convenient point in training compared to many other unfortunate customers. With the ground school completed and I presume exams passed, you need to decide what is next.

Technically speaking, modular students need to be a PPL holder prior to embarking on the EASA ATPL exam phase. However due to circumstances beyond your / anyone control (apart from the Chinese) fate has intervened with a huge tsunami.

I am certain that the CAA will be entirely sympathetic to your circumstances, and accept that the batting order has been modified due to the abrupt ending of the MPL course. You need it in writing from the CAA.

Once restrictions permit, at least complete your PPL, and complete the rest of the CPL/IR training within the prescribed timeframe. Again get any variations in writing from the CAA.

this I can comfirm as my son was a few days away from doing his base training with generation easyjet (touch and go) and they pulled the plug on him , they cancelled his contract with them so now he has no job and a £130k debt and no decent reply from the training school as yet.
Larki

Hi Larki,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, that is indeed the worst situation a cadet can be because the MPL licence does not give flexibility to apply for a different airline or look for any job (bush flying, banner etc). That will require extra training/conversion, extra money and extra effort. For many aspiring pilots a MPL route is 'better' than an ATPL route due to the conditional job offer and many, if not all, will chose MPL route if that is offered. From this perspective your son has no fault in this and he must be supported.
For this reason I think EZY together with the training organization must do everything possible to ensure a future job for your son (when the situation will be better). That means even if there might be a pool of highly qualified pilots when the market recovers, EYZ should first honor the MPL contracts.
I think you should stay in close contact with EYZ/school. We all know the situation will eventually get better, we just don't know when. Different people have different opinion about time, but the reality is no one knows when market will recover.
On the other hand, having in mind the circumstances, EZY could not have continued the training (like any other organization/business in Europe) due to lock-down/social distances and due to the lack of jobs they can offer in the near future. However I am horrified that they have canceled/void the training/contract instead of delaying it.

For the avoidance of doubt, did EZY cancelled/abandoned completely the training/contract or they suspended it for the moment with the intention to resume back when situation will get better?

The MPL situation is difficult; similarly, a significant number of ex-Flybe MPL cadets have been left high and dry with no physical licence, some already flying the line, and others waiting for a base training slot. They effectively have nothing to show for a very expensive course of training, and even those with some experience on the Dash were left practically unemployable prior to the Covid-19 situation. Most had no previous experience therefore no PPL to allow their ATPL TK credits to be attached to anything, and I understand a number were seeking a path to obtaining a PPL so that they could at least apply for a modular route CPL utilising the TK and flying credits earned on the MPL course, and making good any shortfall. They have been left in a precarious situation with an uncertain short-term future whilst trying to obtain a lower standard of licence at additional cost!

I don't feel MPL is properly understood by most candidates entering the industry - there is an understandable appeal as a result of the course construct which suggests a strong link between the trainee and airline but that is meaningless without the job, or a tangible flight crew licence at the end.