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Silverjet Second Officer Recruitment
I thought this might be of interest to some wannabes as I couldnt see it mentioned on pprune.
Silverjet are advertising for low hour pilots BUT with a type rating for second officer positions (cruise relief pilot). Upgrade to handling pilot F/O after 2 years. More details on their website. |
we are exploring the possibility of giving the opportunity for employment to low hours type rated pilots Current Second Officer salary scale starts at £27,810 pa (£28,644 year 2) They are not only expecting the applicant to accept this pathetic package, but they also expect the successful applicant to have stumped up for their own type rating prior to application! |
Thanks for pointing that you, I have already applied and would love the chance to fly for such a great airline! Thank you again.
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Thanks for pointing that you, I have already applied and would love the chance to fly for such a great airline! Thank you again. If so, can you explain what would possess you to accept this package when you could go elsewhere and command upwards of 40k basic & more importantly get to actually fly the aircraft. |
I didnt post that to get into a typical pprune debate about my position, which is frankly none of your business. I just wanted to thank the other chap for the information which has allowed me to apply for an airline that I have great respect for.
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CABUS: It's an interesting vacancy and one I am quite undecided upon. Despite the fact that it would be "cruise relief" work, after 2 years, then you'd be "guaranteed" (or so it says!) to hold a F/O position.
Do you have a 75/767 type rating though? That's the bit that worries me - I don't really want to spend another £30k in this current market on a generic type rating, which would mean that the way you were taught when you did, it was not the way that Silverjet wanted it. And besides, there's the golden phrase of: "No guarantees". So in reality, I'm relunctant to do anything towards it yet. But we will see how it develops. |
gator 32
I am quite curious about your assumption that on posession of a 75 rating you can automatically attain a more lucritave and fulfilling position.
I do possess a 75/76 rating however have unfortunately got low hours so where are all these wonderful 75/76 jobs that I can get so easily then. ID |
islasdad
I think gator 32 seems to think if you have a T/R you can just choose what airline you want to work for! I have a 75TR with low hours, and have been applying to airlines since last summer, with no luck yet. I have had some interviews but the furthest I have got is a hold pool for one operator. This is great, but when you are not sure how big the pool is, or where you stand in it, means you have to keep searching. I have heard people waiting a few weeks to a year, so you can see the problem. :hmm:
Airlines at the moment are short of experienced aircrew. Yes there are plenty of jobs out there, but reading the min. requirements 500-1000hrs seems to be the norm.:( There are a few good operators that will take low hours guys, but it means the job market is quite a bit smaller than it might be, with a disproportionate number of people applying. We just need to keep on applying, we will get there in the end. It is just a matter of hoping the money doesn't run out before we get there.:E Good luck to all job hunters!! :ok: |
Just don't pay them any money up front, unless you can afford to lose it. If the economy starts to struggle even more then Silverjet will be one of the hardest hit airlines. Their competitor Maxjet recently went bust. So, no guarantees to say the least.
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tartan
I agree I have only recently done my type and have had one interview so far.
However I am extremely bored with all this dont pay for your type it makes it worse for the rest of us and why dont you just wait around and a job will eventually show up. I have a family to support and have already spent a small fortune getting to this point. If I have to lay out a little more in order to secure my families future then that is what I will do. Anything I can do to make me more marketable and I can afford it I will do it. Are these sanctimonious idiots advising against it going to pay my mortgage or any of my other bills I DONT THINK SO. I will get there in the end perseverance will out eventually. ID. |
......and an empty wallet!
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It amazes me that low houred pilots still do a 757 TR, do they not realise that the fleets in the UK are drastically diminishing.
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Who's 757 fleets are 'drastically diminishing' ?We have loads of low hour 757 FOs who have paid for the TR and got a job, and what about :
BA Open Skies First choice/thomson DHL Titan Astraeus Thomas Cook Monarch Jet2 Globespan Silverjet If you are going to buy a jet rating it is still a reasonable throw of the dice,not forgetting all those contract jobs out there |
Before jumping at this I would suggest doing a bit of research as to the future of Silverjet... Jan passenger loads were only 54%.... down from the 58% achieved last year. Shares fell 19% on the news. Many people questioning if the airline has a future (could it go the same way as Maxjet?)... think I read somewhere that a 65% passenger load was needed to break even (based off an assumption of much low fuel prices).... would be a shame to blow all of that cash on a type rating for the airline to be in bankruptcy when you finish!
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This isn;t a new or innovative idea. VS did this when they launched HKG flights in the early/mid 90's. Admittedly, they didn't ask pilots to buy a T/R but the world has changed and self funded T/R is now a fact of life -move on and acept it; pilots have no right to demand airlines fund T/Rs in the same way that any other career can demand other voacational course costs.
VS used cruise pilots as a form of cadetship that gave many of them the opportunity to get on the career ladder - some of them are now four stripers so it has some value - even with a modest salary pakcage. Go for it! If you do nothing you'll be left grounded and if they do go down the pan after you have the T/R then you have improved your chances but there are no guarantees. |
Two years as a cruise relief pilot? What exactly does a "cruise relief pilot" do exactly? Sit there and watch the auto pilot for 10 hrs? Two years of that sounds thrilling. Mind you, you'd be getting paid £28000 a year for doing absoulotely f###k all, could be attractive to some. Would be a bit like Homer Simpson's job in sector 7G. Personally I reckon it'd piss me off after a while, 2 years without so much as one landing!
This scheme sounds to me like a bit of a scam by silverjet. They want to cut costs and avoid paying a cruise pilot a full first officer's wage, saving what, 15-20k a year per cruise pilot. How can we do that? I know! we'll get a load of desperate low hours pilots in to do the job and pay them a reduced wage. Yet more exploitation of wannabe's by an airline. |
I've had a 757/767 rating for nearly 2 years and although there is a longish list of airlines that have 757s and 767s you will find that it is very difficult to get into those companies with low hours, even more so if not impossible if they only have 767s, due to their high hour requirements or their own criteria.
To run through that list above. BA; Do not take low houred pilots that are type rated. You do not fall into the category of non rated pilot nor direct. (new pilot has strict criteria, certain schools, certain grades and only intergrated and normally you have to be referred by your school). Getting rid of 757s to Open Skiies that recruit experienced rated pilots. My travel - No 757/767 left. FC/thomson - Not recruiting at the moment and still a huge holding pool exists. They also tend to be very selective as to which schools they recruit from. Their have got rid of several aircraft. DHL - About 12 months ago they did take some low houred TR pilots, previous criteria was 3500hours and currently looking for those with experience. Titan - only apply if your Father works there are you have experience. Astraus - they only take a select few from the bond course. GSM - Plenty of experience required, as mainly based on 767. Jet2 - will take low houred with a TR, but have now recruited Thomas cook - looking a phase out 757, mainly looking at all airbus fleet. Monarch - experience required or direct from Jezez and dont expect to get paid. Silverjet - FOs need experience. If i was to pay for a new TR without the prospect of a job I think that it would be wise not to look at the 757 but look seriously at only the 737. |
The 73 rating is a bit of a dead rating in Europe to be honest with you, unless you want FR. When I look out of my 737 window, I mostly see Airbus 319/320 here in Europe. Certainly if you want to fly the 737 in the UK, there's not much choice of airlines to go to, even less if you are 300-500 rated.
The 757 rating is very overpriced, Bond charge GBP27K! I don't know of any other establishment with a 757 JAA rating which offers non-airline bods a go, as I think GECAT and Alteon don't accept private applications. |
Following Maxjet?
Grass strip basher is dead right.
In today Motley Fool a report shows that Silverjet are probably not the most attractive long term option at the moment, http://www.fool.co.uk/news/investing...oowfeml0040008 , At least wait until the Ides of March. :confused: |
Beg to Differ - Big Time
Saxon_Ops
pilots have no right to demand airlines fund T/Rs I beg to differ - by the same token; Airlines have no right to demand pilots pay for TR's. They are their aircraft (systems) and if they want qualified commercial pilots to fly them for them, so they can make a profit, then they should pay for them to be trained on their 'systems'. END OF ! I know it's been said time and time again, but guess what people won't listen. If people stopped paying for ratings, certain airlines would have to changes their ways, rapidly. It annoyed the f*&^ out of me to hear MOL on Monday banging on about how Europe is facing a mighty recession this year and air travel will suffer, but then, using as an opportunity to put on some spin and add, "but I'm not concerned because Ryanair will survive because people will still want to travel but do it cheaply and as we are Europe's cheapest airline they will all fly with us!" C&^% ! |
Paying for type rating blah blah! Ok lets say you do, you would then have to be an idiot in my eyes to have no job waiting for you at the end of it. As much as I disagree with certain outfits for making you pay your way, at least you get some work at the end. Massaging your ego and spending a small, hh,hhmm large fortune on a rating out of choice i.e 757 with no hands on experience seems like a foolish choice. Tell me those of you with a rating and six circuits to your name, was it wotrth the money? Because the longer you aint flying the more worthless that rating becomes, no hands on experience you see. Beware paying for types with no job prospects, because it does'nt improve your prospects of getting a job, except in exceptional circumstances.
The silverjet thing is a joke in my opinion, if maxjet are anything to go by they wont last the course. |
All future posters please read the thread title before posting and digressing away from the main issue. As normal this thread has stayed a little from the proposed vacancies at SJ into a debate on self funded TR's.
So in an attempt to bring it back on: Its £27,810 + £2.75 per hour away from base. That makes it low 30's total? How many flights per month could a SO expect and hours logged? I'm doing about 4 flights (10 sectors) and 95 hours a month at present. Good company to work for? Conditions, etc. or is that a question for Terms and Endearment forum? It says 2 years till promotion but any chance that can be moved forward? Future routes? NY and Dubai are not the worst but any new ones definitely happening, not just conjecture and rumour? Financial stability? I don't want to leave a stable job on a wing and a prayer for a company who's jacket is on a shakey peg. Do you spell 'shakey' with an e or not? |
Dreamshiner
You are already flying 10 sectors 95hours a month. PLUS you are, I'm guessing, getting a take off and landing,what type are you flying, for which airline, what routes are you operating and whats your pay like, what total time do you have? Are you 75/76 type rated could you apply else where for a F/O position with your experience? TCX MON Globespan, Excel,DHL. I would seriously think twice about leaving a stable job to end up sat in the right hand seat only logging cruise time. I'm gessing it wont be all the cruise time either, only when one of the operating crew wants a rest. Dont think Silverjet have crew rest area so a lot of time spent sat on jumpseat, or will they make a passenger seat available - looking at the load factors there should be plenty spare. £27810 after tax?? mmmm. Flight pays not too bad. Sim session every 3 months - ouch!! - not nice. What route would you be on. Dont need cruise pilot for New york or Dubai. so only ever going to be flying to the same place rumour of South Africa, LA, San Fran, I'm guessing they wont start all 3 routes. Looking most likely as West Coast US, after their latest recuitment. All the above are just my twopence worth. Lots to be considered. Silverjet share price currently at 25p!! I spell shakey with an E doesnt mean I'm right though:ok: BF |
Brian in answer to your questions:
You guess incorrectly on a number of things and to be honest I don't really want to divulge too much extra however as a) its an open forum and b) I have no idea of who will view my comments and c) I don't want anyone else second guessing me. I've sent you a PM explaining all. I also checked dictionary.com and found out there's no 'e' in shaky. |
Looks like initially San Fran & LA.
The 3 month sim I expect will be for the landings rather than full OPC. Not too sure how much time will be logged, expect minimal but still not a bad wage for doing very little! & promise of FO position. On the other side - poor wage if rated & very little experience obtained. |
Dreamshiner, you makes reasoned observations, and inside the calm well written serenity, I am sure there is a fire and hunger to get in a right hand seat. Though don't look for tits bits to confirm that desire, always look at the whole picture and stay objective. I was there many years ago, desperate for any job.
Tread very carefully with SilverJet for all the reasons mentioned. The reason they are looking at cruise pilots, is to lower their costs because THEY ARE going backwards financially. all new starts are very volatile, and economic factors point to an economic slowdown. Maxjet had more of the fundementals to succeed and still couldn't, I doubt SilverJet will make it through. The salary is rediculously low for someone expected to have a rating. and cruise relief time is pretty worthless to you if it all goes pear shaped, (as their figures suggest), which could result in a big finacial hit and useless time with no take off and landings. You won't get better than the Lo Co's for first job, experience, hand flying, rapid hours, job/company security and you will earn a lot more than that at Ryan or Easy. This is a MASSIVE gamble and the odds are you'll lose. Good luck to you if you do roll the dice |
Oh the contrary BT, I'm more than content to serve my apprenticeship and learn the ropes before given the reins of a 180,000kg beast.
My time in the RHS will come, I am in no rush, I am just content to absorb information and assimilate it at present. I do agree that SJ looks not peachy at the moment. For some reason a post on this thread this morning were removed either by moderators or the poster, I only know because I am subscribed to it and it was sent to my inbox. It did not make pleasant reading. |
Usual "Down with Silverjet" comments are out again I see. Why does it have to be a scam or a rip off? Well it wouldn't be worth posting on pprune i suppose.........
I think this is a great opportunity for type rated pilots with no experience to get on the big jets. Compare the wages with elsewhere and you will see they pay more than double. I think some of the pilots on here quoting higher salaries, are for pilots with more experience. I hope the opinions on this forum doesn't scare off those who would genuinely benefit from this, (as unfortunately there are vunerable people that base their career decisions on this website??? Madness.....) There are posts on another thread moaning about Silverjet and indeed other airline's minimum requirements where pilots felt more jobs should be offered to low experienced pilots jobs. Now they are offering out jobs which would help build experience - the gloves are back on?? The hours all count and they don't have to worry about long seniority lists and working for managers they hate, politics and everyone who works there has nothing but good to say about the company/people. If the company continues with its current amazing sales (despite all the bad press - I see those figures haven't been published on here) then they are still on track for a stab at success. Look at what they have achieved since launching, the load factor for 3 operations is higher than other start ups, expansion plans are still on track and BA are trying to compete - says it all. I know a few of the pilots there and know that they are promoting from within and are keen to do so, so IMHO they will look after those joining their venture in the future. A great opportunity for the SO's. Good luck to you :ok: |
Well said!:D I think Silverjet are a great company and I look forward to them announcing their forcast profits in March and as you quite rightly have pointed out they have caused a stir within BA.
I think this opportunity with Silverjet is an excellent way of gaining experience in an extremly professional company with great opportunities of new routes and a long term career for any type rated low hour pilot. |
Didn't realise the Silverjet HR team are tapping away on Pprune on the weekend.
"This ships unsinkable" said the captain of the Titanic. Blind optimism in the face of factual loads real finanacial performance and economic conditions doesn't change facts. I have no association with Silverjet or BA, but if one is thinking of handing over heanous amounts pf money for a 76 type, to work for virtually free. in jet terms as a cruise pilot:yuk: then at least get your facts straight. The results havn't been released, wonder why? Don't let desperation lead you into rash decisions, many any Airline pilot has been without job overnight as out of nowhere the company went bust. Silverjet may well suceed, but the financial fundamentals are not great and the success talked about on here and the laughable suggestion that with 2 routes out of Luton that BA is quivering, is built on delusion and mere optimism over substantative fact. Whatever you decide good luck and safe landings, |
Does anyone genuinely believe SilverJet will be operating by the end of this year???? C'mon get real guys.
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For those of you too young to remember.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2283244.stm Hope Silverjet dont do an encore to Sir Freddie. |
I think gator 32 seems to think if you have a T/R you can just choose what airline you want to work for! I have a 75TR with low hours, and have been applying to airlines since last summer, with no luck yet I have a family to support and have already spent a small fortune getting to this point. If I have to lay out a little more in order to secure my families future then that is what I will do. Anything I can do to make me more marketable and I can afford it I will do it. Are these sanctimonious idiots advising against it going to pay my mortgage or any of my other bills I DONT THINK SO. I know that I'll get a virtual kicking for saying this, but I chuckle when I read of how people like those above can't get a job. Not because I want to see anyone struggle to put food on the table or a shelter over their head, but because they're responsible for their own misfortune, yet blame everyone else, but themselves. islasdad implies that his motives are dictated by his need to secure his family's future and yet he is willing to pay thousands for the privilage of going to work. I suggest that his motives are more to do with him getting the job that he wants, which is fair enough, but don't lecture us about family values. If it was all about doing what's best for your family, you wouldn't have spent tens of thousands on getting the 'dream' job. You would have chased one of the millions of other vocations where the employer pays you to work, not you pay them! Sanctimonious maybe, but the above posts suggest paying does nothing more than increase your debts. I know it's not fashionable anymore, but in my job, they pay me. They haven't yet expected me to pay them. |
Thomas Coupling....The answer to your question is YES.
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From mail on Sunday - Sunday Feb 10th 2008
Silverjet woe for tycoons The billionaire Rueben brothers, who are bankrolling the struggling Silverjet business class-only airline, have decided not to convert their £10 million loan to the company into shares. Property tycoons David and Simon Reuben, who could have swapped the loan for shares tomorrow, have decided to keep it in place. A conversion would have given them 22% of Silverjet equity and two seats on the board of the airline, led by Lawrence Hunt. The decision not to convert reflects the nosediving value of Silverjet shares, which closed week at 24p. The airline operates two daily round-trip flights on the New York Newark route and a daily return service between Luton and Dubai. Good luck to you if you go for it, wish I had more money than sense. |
chicken leg
Sanctimonius idiots is what I said and what I meant. I am in the fortunate position of having paid for my training entirely myself with no assistance from mummy and daddy and with no debt to my name.
I had a succesfull business of my own after having spent many years in the airforce of The business however took up far to much of my time and the family suffered so with my families full support have chosen this path. Without the type rating I was getting no response from my C.V. s. However one cannot continue without an income indefinately. The difference in responsed since I have done one has been extremely marked. Please stop telling me what I should or shouldnt do with my money and what is best for me and mine when you know nothing about me or my circumstances.:= |
Please stop telling me what I should or shouldnt do with my money and what is best for me and mine when you know nothing about me or my circumstances. If you want a particular job so badly that you are willing to reverse Economics Lesson 1 (you go to work, you get paid) still fair enough, but don't get too surprised when those of us who work in order to earn money get excited and accuse you of damaging the industry. In spite of the above, I hope that you find the means to support your family soon. |
Guilt Trip
There is o guilt trip involved I am doing what I believe to be right in face of the fact that the industry has reached the point where you get a job easier if you have a t.r.
And yes I have studied economics so I do know that aint going to change any time soon. The guilt trip is al from people who say dont do it cause I cant. |
Whoop Whoop ALERT ALERT!!!!
DANGER .... Off thread, denegrating into a Pay for TR vs not debate, not the thread title or topic. Can we keep it Silverjet orientated please, God Almighty, please Whoop Whoop ALERT ALERT!!!! |
Just a thought…
lets say you got the job, and in 24 months time lets say silverjet are still going strong. That would give you 24 months experience of the right hand seat. And when I say experience of the 'right hand seat' I mean just that - you’ll have more experience with the seat adjust lever than actually flying the plane. This is all fine if you stay with SilverJet and move to FO, but what if you want to leave, or Silverjet go bust? You’ve spent a lot of money and a lot of time learning how to fly - can you put up with being bumped out of the RH seat when any real flying needs done – for 2 years? If you’re at a job interview for another airline, how much advantage is 24 months A/P monitoring actually going to give you over a guy with a new TR, you’re CV may still be put in the pile marked ‘never actually landed the thing’. Although you'll have an advantage over new TRs of knowing exactly what the best seat position is for you. You'd be looking for £35k+, and the low hour guys would probably take £20k+ I know I’ve over simplified this, but 2 years monitoring seems a very long time to me. …just a thought. |
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