FTE (Jerez) Grads - Who has got a Job?
 

Calling all FTE Grads. Any of you got a job yet and if so did you have to pay for a type rating?

Marks out of 10 for FTE would be........

At the very least 12 ;)
A lot of FTE taken by BA Cityflier & BACon

I will be the first to break cover then……….Off my course (we were the penultimate course to graduate in 2006) 4 have gone to cityflyer... one started in feb and the other 3 who went for BA started in march. That leaves 6 of us to go..... I know one guy is off in Malaysia doing instructing, one is in Ireland building hours to instruct, one is in Spain trying to crack the Spanish airlines, two have interviews with Logan air this month and I have an assessment with ryan air some time in the not too distant future........

the course before me most of them were bacon the self sponsored guys two are with cityflyer one at Gecat and I know one hasn't got anything but is waiting for the school to sort out flybe or logan...

course 48 I think most are with Flybe, one with cityflyer and one other is instructing.....

Oh marks out of 10 for FTE well I honesty most of us will bitch about the food and stuff but at the end of the day it wasn't too bad.... I managed to get fat on it.... or was it the beer!!! There is a good camaraderie at the school or well at least there was and I enjoyed many a night having a couple of scoops underneath the andalucian sky. The standard of ground school is good with many of the course averages 92% + and a high standard of flight instruction with well looked after planes.
Problems with the place really are the sims.... the hawker 737 haha which is a tad old and I must stress is getting replaced with a real 737 sim at the end of the year, but for the MCC it was more than adequate! The main problem I found with the school was a disparity in the way they treated the airline tagged students compared to the self sponsored guys and also the ambiguity that surrounds their recommendation process..... they seem to think once we have graduated we dont talk! However I hope that this will be sorted out with the reshuffle that seems to have occurred!

I spoke to a self sponsored guy from 52 who graduated this year and he said that they haven’t heard anything from the school but the Thomson guys who were then earmarked for flybe have now signed their contracts for Thomson (good bunch of guys too, I’m glad it worked out for them).

Good school though and the andalucian women are sexy as hell ;)


hope this helps im sure the other guys from the respected course will add bits too.

C47: 1 has just finished his type-rating, 2 have job offers, and the other 2 have things in the pipeline.

Overall: Good training, good reputation, brilliant location, but recommendation process is a shambles and could do more to help people get jobs.

C41. 10 on course. 9 had jobs within 6 months. 1 paid for type rating with ryanair.

Chaps,

Thanks for your replies. I have applications in with OAT and CTC at the mo but am seriously condsidering FTE as the package seems good value. At the end of the day I want to get a job out of the investment. I think OAT is poss overpriced and CTC have a good gloss!

Hmmmm decisions decisions!

Course 46 Integrated
2 Thomsonfly (self sponsored students who got selected whilst at Jerez - no money up front for the type rating, but a contribution towards the cost is taken out of the salary for the next 5 years)
1 BA (on a SSP salary scale)
1 Ryanair (paid for type rating)
3 still looking.
The final modular course also graduated at the same time and 1 guy is with Thomsonfly and another is with Eastern.
Regarding the marks out of 10, a bit tricky really as I've got nothing to compare it against. Most aspects are very good, some aspects could be a bit better but that's life really. Having since talked to people to went to other schools, I'm still quite sure that I made the right decision by going to Jerez (but that is just personal choice). If you are looking at a variety of schools, visit all of them and see where you feel the most comfortable.
:ok:

In what respect are they unfair, and who are they biased towards?

In the cadet to management meeting (that are normally held every month!) just try and get a direct response off the person who decides this or did decided this, on how the process is conducted........ he will tell you it’s a simple process where they use the BA criteria (above 85% in the ground school and first time passes in the CPL and IR)! But its not…!!!!! another former student has already commented on how some people are put forward to BA ticking all the boxes in the above criteria whilst others aren’t!! Also if this is the criteria why are some students recommended with fails in CPL or IR and/or a partial in the other, whilst others are over looked? I know life isn’t fair,,,,,,,,, but for time you spend deciding if you should pay 93,000 euros to train at the establishment I wish the establishment would give you transparent recommendation process for you to work towards! Oh and I too think they are ever so slightly biased towards airline tagged students and they don’t seem to care if you ace or fail ground school…. The recommendation process (bar BA) all goes on the flying

Oh and one person who graduated with course 50 has just got Jet airways….. well done!! I dont think they have to pay for TR.

If you are interested in training in FTE....definitely go to the school and talk to some of the senior courses they will give you a feel of how things are!! BUT as someone who is currently still at the school said recently... "I would chose here again but only as an airline tagged student"

To give you a realistic assessment x/10 would require me to have trained at other institutions. I would nevertheless like to point out a few aspects of the training as follows:

(1) The overall quality of the training is quite respectable (groundschool very well organised / flying fairly well managed) with the exception of the MCC. It is great to see that someone has finally realised that the use of a Hawker HS737 simulator is inadequate for conducting the MCC and appreciated the need to “concentrate on Business and Project Development” (Many congratulations on this awakening! :) ) At the end of the day the course was completed without any delays.

(2) Ground instructors have been very friendly and helpful. Flying instructors, generally helpful and supportive (with some exceptions). Rest of staff also very friendly and generally helpful.

(3) As within any institution, final decisions tend to be made by a board. Although this board claims that all decisions are based on “BA style” criteria, this is not always the case. Having discussed the recommendation criteria at length with different “managers” it is evident that no 2 can agree on the same statements. To answer “future captain” they are unfair mainly in the respect that their requirements are not clearly stipulated and no one is clearly told what it is they assess (after having asked).
How can you strive without knowing what your aim is? – because it appears that acing Groundschool / passing the flying and MCC does not suffice. Obviously it would appear that it is all a matter of opinion and that each manager will adapt the criteria to his opinion!

(4) FINAL POINT: Ask yourselves this, do you really want to invest money into an organisation where more importance is attributed to 3 people’s opinion rather than your performance?
And for those of you who think that this is a generalisation and a load of **** please provide me with some sort of explanation as to why there are SO MANY “exceptions” out there?

I remember hearing someone didn't get put forward to BA because they were deemed a training risk despite this person having passed CPL and IR first time. They had partialed 1 of the other 3 flying tests. Hardly a training risk. I want to add that this person had no personality problems or anything like that. Absolute shocker!

All you can do is take it on the chin and move on.

But sometimes there is a lot of luck involved. Sometimes the best candidates fail flight tests due to bad luck and the weakest pass due to good luck. FTE @ Jerez is a 14 month interview. The senior staff profile individuals and recommend them to where they think they will best fit.
Pay your money and take your chance! - its life

Recommendations
 

Those of you who made it to the airlines can appreciate the fact that being able to fly the perfect NDB approach or knowing everything about air law are the least important bits in being an airline pilot.
Everybody knows one or two guys in their airline who are very good pilots technically speaking but don't really fit in or even worse than that - no one wants to fly with them.
Where does this put the CRM and the safety of the flight?
Recommendations are based on overall impression.
The impression you made on the guys in Jerez is most probably the impression you are going to make on the guys in your airline.
Add to that the fact that recommendations are a matter of supply and demand at the time of graduation.

How was the Jerez experience??
 

So how was it for everybody? i had a good chat with the Chief Instructor, Bill i think his name was ?? but he seemes a spot on, modest guy. He said basically, if you ace all your exams and the flying, you will be recommended for a job. Seems to meake sense to me!!

What really appeals to me about Jerez is that it is purpose made campus (formerly BA training place apparently) and everything is included, apart from your shoes! Of course, a school coudl just offer that to get more students but they seem to have a good reputation and im sure the chap who wrote the book 'To Be an Airline Pilot' has done wonders for the schools name.

How well did everyone do, any gripes with the place??

All info is welcome and appreciated!

hi guys, just wondering really what age would you recomend to actually apply for a place in FTE.. because i want to do it now but i don't want to get turned down and even if i did could i apply again????? oh and what is an airline tagged student??
thanks for the help

fte
 

Hi,

I did Modular Course, and it worked very well. Dont think its available at the moment. One thing I might just summise from my observations, while there.
The Recommendation is an informal opinion made by 3 or 4 Individuals. Nobody could figure the 'Recommendation' process out. You may all say it is similiar to a BA Process, based on Groundschool and Skills tests.etc. Should that be the case, please asks yourselves two questions:
1. Would you be prepared to part with a lot of Euro to become another potential victim of politics? and potentially seriously damage your Job Prospects........
2. Does FTE hold its reputation(which is a well respected one), based on this 'recommendation' process, or is it based on the High Standards of instruction/tuition?
(3...................Why do they bother with their selection process for entry, if these are the cases)

I, was not involved in this 'recommendation' scenario, as only did some modular training there, and from the start they will not recommend Modular students, which I knew and can understand. I found instuctors brilliant.

In relation to Flight Directors Comments, airlines often rely on these 'recommendations' as they have nothing else to go........apart from the odd personal recommendation, from fellow pilots, within their Airline.........
Is one CAA First Time pass the same as Another?

There are essentially 3 categories of FTE recommendation: The first two are very similar

Full Recommendation - What this means is that the airlines with which FTE have contacts with, i.e. Thomsonfly, FlyBe, BA, BA Connect, GB - when they are looking to recruit low hours pilots then FTE will put forward the names of these students with a full profile to the airline. This will often guarantee you an interview. After that you're on your own.

Partial Recommendation - Everything except BA, or turboprops only

No Recommendation - What it says on the tin. I know of people who have come here on the advice of parents and they aren't even interested, others with too much money and aren't prepared to put the hard work in. But when you are out there you can generally tell who those students are.

Then there are a few other airlines (such as Jet 2, First Choice (as was), Thomas Cook) that the school doesn't have any influence or formal links with but if you apply to them and mention FTE then they do rate your training more highly and your odds are improved. The rest is up to you.

After graduation support is limited, most courses have to do all the applications themselves. And with regards to airline tagged students, with nearly 50% in FTE being tagged - they are at an advantage in the recommendation scheme, in that as long as you perform well enough then should the initial partner airline back out, you almost automatically get a full recommendation (not always but almost).

'After graduation support is poor, most of my course are having to do all the applications themselves.'

What you really mean you had to apply to airlines yourself no secretary?

FTE Modular Recommendations
 

Headinclouds.
Quote;
"I, was not involved in this 'recommendation' scenario, as only did some modular training there, and from the start they will not recommend Modular students, which I knew and can understand. I found instuctors brilliant."

This is not true, I was modular, and myself and another mod, were both recommended, and we both have jobs, one as a direct result of the recommendation.
Yes there are some politics involved I think, but overall it's not a bad process and they are highly thought of in the industry.

I was integrated and did get recommended. However, I do know for a fact that modulars were being recommended to Thompson for the 757 with 2nd series, 2nd attempt IR passes.

The whole thing is a lottery.

FTE- WHat have they done about it?
 

So what on earth are FTE goign to do about it? Its very easy to be persuaded by glossy covers or smooth talking instructors, as you guys said, they are selling a product. Have any of you given feedback to FTE??

What have you guys heard about other airlines help in job hunting, in comparison?? Its a difficult game but i doubt it only applies to FTE.

Also the Pre-Approval process baffles me, are you meant to request it of the airlines whilst you are completely unqualified and prior to starting training.

Is this not an informal case of discrimination?

Also This is a great system, BUT FOR ONE REASON:

Nobody I have spoken too, were openly given a description of this process(a process they were about to enter unaware), when they paid up their pony..or passed the 'selection'..............

This type of system seems to create a 'Spanish Mafia' type of Management within the Compound............

EVERYONE SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS PROCESS, BEFORE ENTERING A SELCTION PROCESS, AND ALSO BE AWARE OF THE SECRETIVE ODDS, of success.........btw the numbers of recommendations seem to vary to the extreme, depending on the actual course ............(in my huble opinion)

Capt Caos,

I stand corrected, that was what I was told before I started, and you are right some modular have been recommended since my course..............Either I am not bothered, have a job and all that, without the FTE assistance, but back to the point of this what seems 'Cruel' process......

tagging
 

Hi,

just wandering if anybody know how the 'tagging' process works and how to go about getting 'tagged'?

Whats Tagging?

Simple
 

Now some of you wannabes out there think that the whole airline system is designed to get everybody a job - well it's not!

Tagging - this is where the airline and FTE get together in the persuit of the best individual to SUIT the airline.

FTE want to be involved wth the airlines, which is why they don't do modular any more. They do take on self sponsor people, but only to make up the numbers - they wouldn't take em if the could go 100% tagged.

The deal is the airline and FTE advertise for recruits. FTE do phase 1 - 3 of selection - sorting the wheat from the chaff. Phase 4 is done by the airline - the final selection phase. Those that are successful pay their own way thru FTE - no risk to said company. If the student gets all the way thru with a reasonably acceptable performance they have a job at the end, if not, no recommendation then on your own. As there has been double selection then the failure to achieve recommendation rate is expected to be low.

Reasonably acceptable performance does NOT mean everything has to be passed first time!

In the end the students want to go to a school which will give em a job (i.e. FTE, who get their money). The school wants the money from the students and the airline wants the right guys/girls for them.

Might not suit you but..................

Look at www.flighttrainingeurope.com

thanks 4 the help anotherspaceman!:ok:

Not so simple
 

anotherspaceman,

I think you are certainly correct that FTE isn't that interested in self-sponsored cadets, and this shows.

It's no secret that SS cadets are treated as second-class citizens when it comes to prioritizing student's flights, tests, progress and even recommendations. However, I think it would be important for the school, and especially the finance department to realise that SS cadets do make up a large portion of the business, and they wouldn't want to lose that. Yet still, support for SS cadets remains poor.

What I will say is that the training at FTE is top notch. The instructors, both ground and flying, are some of the best teachers you could hope for. With their huge wealth of experience and nerves of steel, they are a real credit to the school.

Most people's problems lie with the management and their lack of "after sales support". So your remark that most students want to go to a school that will give them the best chance of getting a job is very true, in turn prospective may want to consider all their options.

I'll hold comment on the recommendation process for another rant.

Uh?
 

Well FTE, glad you have graduated - congratulations!

As you appear to have agreed with me, it appears that it is indeed quite simple.

Remember that other institutions, such as Oxford, have their pecking order too.

Whilst this is true at the moment, it is an ever reducing proportion, which suits FTE

The SS students will eventually find it difficult to find a place at one of the major schools as tagging grows. Modular students are now experiencing difficulty finding somewhere to spend their cash.

It will continue like this until there is a downturn in the aviation industry when the boot will be firmly attached to the other foot. In the meantime FTE sees tagging as the best way forward for its business. If it produces only high calibre tagged students who go directly to an airline it will be more than happy.

Not being on a mixed SS and airline cadet course i can't really comment on the supposed prioritisation on the airline boys vs. the ss guys. However on my SS course i saw no evidence of other courses taking priority over us.

I feel the school do a fair job in getting people interviews, not an amazing job but a fair job. They never claim they will get people jobs, the best they can do is provide interview chances. It's then up to the individual. Also, just cause FTE or any other FTO have "contacts" doesn't mean you shouldn't apply to every other possible job. You have to help yourself in this industry.

I'm sure OAT and Cabair offer similar opportunities to all thier students although i have heard airline cadets at OAT do get some priority. Maybe an OAT grad could provide some insight into this.

With a lot of luck and a lot of money the jobs are out there.

FTE Course 51 Job update
 

Just returning to the original thread a little - course 51 graduated in December and as of today we are:

4 pre-approved students with BA CityFlyer, on the RJ in Edinburgh and just about on the line now

2 self-sponsored picked up by BA CityFlyer, one started last week, the other in the holding pool, both for the RJ in Edinburgh

1 self-sponsored picked up by Connect but now with FlyBe, in type rating

1 self-sponsored just finishing type rating with Aer Lingus

1 self-sponsored starting type rating with RyanAir next week.

The other 3 graduates (also self-sponsored) are still waiting, though 1 has a sim check this week with BA and another a sim with RyanAir sometime soon.

Overall not bad for four months after graduation. At least four of the self-sponsored guys have directly benefited from the school's recommendations - but... there's a fair amount of ill feeling both towards the school's after-graduation support and the recommendation process.

We as a course had the process explained to us personally by management in an hour-long question and answer towards the end of the course - but, even then, if you look at the empirical evidence of exactly who got what and with what results in their flying tests, it's sometimes difficult to follow through the logic, and to tie up what we're told with what actually happens. Inevitably, some people are left feeling very disappointed and disillusioned with the whole thing - just look around this forum for proof of that!

Undoubtedly, if you can get yourself on a pre-approved scheme, that's the way to go.

Course 45
 

We graduated in April 2006. Out of 7 (all self sponsored):

3 got GB airways A320/21
1 got Thompson Fly 757
1 got Logan Air on the Saab
1 is doing his A320 type rating at the moment for My Travel
1 has got interviews and sim rides coming up.

I personally dont have any complaints bar the usual food etc. Some more challenging cage cricket teams to play against would have been a bonus though. :}

Well done everybody on Course 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51 and 52. It seems like a lot of you did well and have got jobs. :ok:

Hi,

When I visited FTE I asked a few students there on and off the Thomsonfly approved scheme and they told me "it's a bit of a joke" and that the airline "messed us around"... and that it's not worth being on these approved schemes considering that if you do get a recommendation you have more choice?

Do many self sponsored students get jobs with airlines which are not one of the "partner airlines". i.e. not through a recommendation to a partner airline? If I was to apply to say, easyjet or bmi, what kind of chance would I stand after having been to FTE?

Do any of the "partner airlines" make you pay for type rating?

Recommendations
 

Hello,

Having Graduated a few months ago i believe, the FTE reccomendation process in my opinion is a waste of time and i am still not sure how it works. But i do know that i worked my a*se off for the whole 14months out there to recieve no reccommendation as they thought i didnt put in enough effort.

Got 1st time cpl/ IR Worked the hardest out the course with my MCC partner and still nothing.

Where as there were people on the course who Messed up cpls and IR's Turned up to sims twatted and they still all get reccommended so where the logic is in the whole thing is beyond me!!!

I didnt go to FTE expecing to get a reccommendation but it is still dissappointing that when you really try hard they leave u high and dry trying to find a job.

I wouldnt Reccommend anyone goes to FTE just on the hope of a reccommendation, but i would reccommend to go because the instructors ground and flying are second to none!!!!

Hours
 

ppl_student

Some people manage to complete the course in the required hours
i only know of a few people who dont, and it tends to come after partialling or failing a flight test, and if you fail some of the training flights i think i was between 5 and 11 hours overflown on the course. If you get a ppl before the course starts which maybe benificial, then you can have a reduction on the dual hours needed in the warrior.

Hi guys

Did any of you take advantage of the loan deal with BBVA ?
If so can you tell me what the repayments are like and for how long, also what do you need to secure the loan (house?)

Thanks

Could somebody kindly share on update on this matter and explain how FTE graduates are doing these days? I've been reading those with at least an ICAO level 4 Spanish have ended up in Vueling, a few in Volotea and some in Ryanair, Jet2 as well. Is this correct?

Could a few current self-sponsored graduates of this year share their experiences?

Cheers!

Slightly skewed in the last 2 years. A lot of courses are filled with emirates, cityflyer, BA aer lingus etc.

BA guys are just starting, Aer Lingus have done well and I believe most (all?) are now on line, emirates steady flow on to 777 type ratings. I've heard whispers of one or two getting Jet2 pilot apprentice but don't quote me. I know of 3 at Ryanair, a few have got volotea and Vueling (requires Spanish) and neither is assured.

Flybe guys who were there, don't have jobs. A lot of self sponsored without jobs though as well and not a great deal in the way of companies queuing up to hire as was the case a few years back. It's tough out there but looking up.

Long story short don't go self sponsored and think there will be a job at the end of it. Training is top notch at FTE but know what you're getting in to. In a few years when things are on the up maybe, but right now don't unless your sponsored. Im sure the same holds for most of the schools.