By the Cabin Crew door?
 

Hi,

I completed my flight training about 4 weeks ago and apart from chilling out and generally recovering, I have been looking at possible options for me to pursue whilst I wait for that first RHS job. One of the options I have heard mooted before is to work as cabin crew and keep your flying hours ticking over on days off. I am aware that certain airlines will not consider frozen ATPL cabin crew for pilot positions but would still like to explore that option as a means of staying within the industry and potentially developing some useful contacts.

Anyone out there care to offer me some insight into this option? I would be most interested to hear from those who have been/still are in this position, did it help or hinder your career and did you have sufficient time to keep building those hours on days off?

If this is the wrong forum, for what is essentially a question, then I apologise.

Thanks.

I've heard it said that CC are discouraged to make the switch into the cockpit. Don't understand why.

Why not consider getting a job in the Ops room, dispatcher etc.

S

I am at present operating as cabin crew. I am finding it very enjoyable and also very interesting. It is a good way of getting to know the company and the people that work within it. I have been encouraged by the flight deck and the cabin crew and both departments view this as bennifical for a multi - crew environment. Some of our present flight deck use to be cc and all of my my cc colleagues say that you can see a difference and that they are much better pilots for it. Ultimatly it gives you the oportunity to see what happens on both sides of the door, fit into a commercial airline, and spend quality time on the aircraft that you may possibly be flying one day. :cool:

Also Pilots need to be good comumicators, team leaders and best of all good at customer service etc... isnt cabin crew ideal for this?

any advice on cabin crew???
 

Hi folks,

I'm thinking of applying for Cabin Crew but have'nt a clue where to start. Was wondering what are the best airlines to work for and who has best working conditions, pay, promotion prospects etc.
Can anyone tell me what a typical day from start to finish entails, what sort of take home pay i can expect (as some basic pays seem alarmingly low, i'm assuming allowances bring pay up)do u enjoy ur job, just generally trying to get a feel for the job.
Also do i need to speak a foreign language and what other qualities or experience should i have? I'm currently a Police Officer so obviously have a lot of contact with the public but have no Bar/Restaurant experience. Is that necesary?

Any advice whatsoever on this subject would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance :D

Scotsman

Try the cabin crew forum.

Yeah I think your post will be moved soon. Re: pay, O'Greedy says that "his" cabin crew can get up to £23k (yesterday's Daily Mail) :ooh: but the average in this country is probably between £10k & £15k.

MF

Scotsman Ive sent you a PM

Working in an airport or cabin crew...could it help?
 

I was just wondering if working in an airport or on board as cabin crew could help job prospects in the future if you successfully get the required licenses to apply to airlines?
Could working in an airport possibly get you good contacts?
And may be working as cabin crew could get you good contacts as well as being known by the airline and possibly moving in the company?
Sorry if these are stupid questions, I haven't even started any flying lessons yet but I was just looking at possible job opportunities to fund my training (if I go modular route) and those kind of jobs came to mind of something that could be more useful, and also they are in the industry I am most interested in :D

Thanks!

Dan

similar situation
 

Not a stupid question at all Dan, infact i'm pretty much in thesame boat myself. I graduate ths year from Uni, i on the other hand do have some experience on the piper warrior aircraft out of coventry, highly insufficient however it may seems i got the taste as they say. Currently i'vew been looking toward graduate jobs within airlines at operations management level, for the same reasons as your good self. The truth is i don't know if this will or even can help. Sponsorship seems to be a forgone conclusion, until those cheque books appear, wll we can do is persavere with as best knowlege we have, Good luck;)

Hello,

It will be good and valuable experience either working in an airport or as cabin crew has you get to know many aspect of the business, many of my friends that are pilots started their careers as Cabin Crew.

Its worth a go.

Good Luck :ok:

thanks
 

Its nice (and reassuring) to here some positive news about the current situation, cheers for the reply regards:ok:

Don't knock yourself for thinking these things. The really dumb ones (like me :O ) only give this kind of thing due consideration when they stumble out of their flying school, clutching a licence with its ink still wet, wondering why the airlines aren't queued up outside waving their chequebooks.:confused:

Any aviation experience you can get in addition to your flying is a bonus - the more involved with actual a/c ops the better. It will give you the opportunity to learn about the way the industry works beyond the invaluable skills of making cows get bigger or smaller, and you will get to meet many people whom you will most probably want to contact upon completion of your training and will inevitably meet again at some point in the future. Contacts in the industry can certainly be a good source of information and advice, and even those who are in no position to influence the recruitment decision are worth having as allies - the industry is so surprisingly small that they may know somebody who can.

Sounds like a good idea then in the future if I get the chance, I live 40 mins from LBA and 50 from MAN if the motorways are kind (yeah right) so they are both options.
I need to finish my degree first though, or should that be start :{ but when the time comes it does seem like a good idea to me, aviation is my main interest so I was thinking of those kind of jobs anyway before thinking of any advantages in the future but if they are there anyway then I'll take them:)

Thanks for your quick replies, if anyone else has anything to add its always welcome :D

Cheers

Dan

Hi

A friend of mine joined "Sabre", ex excel a few years back. Within 4-5 months he had made a few useful contacts but a particular one put him in touch with the right guy.
So with his 300 hours he went on to fly the 727 (not for Sabre though). So who know ? Worked for him though...
As for me, I worked as cabin crew, check-in agent and now fly the 75. It didn't give the job but helped in developpong my personaility which certainly was more than helpful to prove myself at the interview.
If you want to give it a go then why not? Nothing like finding by yourself plus you will probably enjoy it and get even more motivated in achieving your ultimate goal.

Good Luck anyway

Working at a airport/cabin crew is invaluable experience.

I worked in airports due summer vacations etc doing everything from engineering to check in. Learnt loads.

And once I had a license in my hand I became a dispatcher, bad money but great fun. 2 months latter I had a jet job with a company I used to dispatch.

So look at it as part of the training and enjoy.

Its a good strategy. Join the likes of Servisair and work as a ground handler then move into despatching. You'll gain a very useful insight into the operations of an airline which will stand you in excellent stead at interview. Plus you get to make contacts with airline employees. Similarly joining as cabin crew is a viable strategy.

Good luck,

WWW

Glad someone has brought this up, as similar thoughts have crossed my mind and I am sure many others.

How about if the situtation is reversed, you gain your frozen ATPL, then you go to the airlines and apply for a cabin crew position, hoping you can make the necessary contacts in the business to get employed as a pilot. Would they see this as inititive, or blagging it?

Personally, if I was employed as cabin crew, I would work hard and take the job seriously and give it 100%. However, in the back of mind, I have thought that airlines may take the attitude this guy onlys want the flight deck and may take a relaxed approach to the cabin crew job?

Any opinions please?

Cat3, after I came back from Africa where I had been flying for a year, I joined a ground handling agent then followed by BA (cabin crew).
Although I met some great people I am still very much in touch with I was not considered for any flying position wether I am talking about BA or British Midland.
Actually when I tried BA, I was told by the guy in charge of recruitment (POD for those who know him ;)) all sort of porkies plus told to leave the company and rejoin as flight deck once I have more experience.
I guess I did just that but I am very unlikely to rejoin as there is nothing there for me anymore.
A shame really since at the time I really wanted to stay with BA...

As for British Midland it didn't work out probably because I was LGW based and recruitment being at LHR, I couldn't just pop in. It happened a couple of times but no doubt, I was far from being the only one doing that.

On the other hand, I ve heard or met some people for whom it worked out juts the way I had tried but been unsuccessful. So there we, once again no rule there but why not giving it a go ? I mean, I really enjoyed my time in both jobs and learnt about what goes on on the other side.

Personally though I have always omitted to tell I was a trained pilot during interviews. I figured out this could go against me so I chose not take the chance. Whether or not it happened to be the case I don't know and I never will but the end result was satisfactory which is what mattered.

Bye

AMEX,

Thanks for your response, some interesting points made. I am hoping to finish my IR off in the summer, so this is the time I will be looking for work, either flying, which would be great of course, or something else. I really would like a job in the industry whether it be ground crew or cabin crew, just to keep a hand in, if I can't get a flying job straight away. I was involved in the Aerospace prior to starting pilot training, however it was indirectly and not at an airport.
Now I must admit, I have thought of taking this approach, however, due the fact I finished my ATPL exams 6 months ago, and have been flying full time since finishing, I have now been out of full time work for a long time! I would dread the question in the interview that say's, 'so, I see that you have not been actively working since 2002, so what have you been doing with all that spare time?':eek:

Will just have to see what happens I guess, mind you more importantly, I still have the pass the IR flight test!

CAT3,

I don't see any need to hide such information from an employer looking at a non-flight deck position. I know several people who have opted for jobs in dispatch, ops, cabin crew and all kinds of wierd and wonderful places who have found holding a CPL no barrier to employment, and subsequently struck lucky and landed a RHS.

Anyway, as you would undoubtedly need to provide details of the last 5 years of your life, I think it might prove a little difficult to hide the fact you have the licence, especially if you gained it via the integrated route. I'm always disappointed by the tendency towards dishonesty and secrecy in my potential colleagues - that would be a far bigger factor in rejecting a candidate as far as I'm concerned.

Hi all

Currently working for ezy as cabin crew. Graduated last year, needed to earn some money to pay off debts before starting training.

I say go for it; I don't feel as if I've done a day of work since I joined - it's actually good fun, and as some of you above have mentioned, the conversations I've had with flightdeck have been invaluable - everyone has something different to say, and you learn information which could impress at any future interviews.

Of course, I can't speak for the various ground-based jobs, but I'd say take whatever comes your way. At the time of graduation, no one except ezy seemed to be recruiting, hence here I am. I'd say the only difference between cc and despatch is the level of pay (cabin staff at ezy are paid more).

cheers

p.s. plenty of cabin crew holding licenses at ezy ;)

witchdoctor is probably right actually but at the time I didn't know what I know today. Also I wasn't completely inexperienced so like in many industries, the word "over qualified" could have struck me with its very unfortunate consequences.

Saying that when I worked at Transair Pilot Shop, that was a different story and my flying experience was certainly seen as a certain amount of commitment to the industry.

As for the 5 years history, well it's all but a joke.... Quite right if you have passed these years in the Uk, this is certainly an efficient way to know and confirm your exact whereabout.
Of course if you have been expatriated during that same period then these supposedly thorough checks are nothing more than a farce for that guy who really has something to hide. Yep, yep, yep.

Ive just got a job working as a dispatcher at Man.......not started yet though........I told them about my CPL and they seemed pretty impressed........they said it puts me in a better position than most of the people who applied for the job!

They told me in the interview that they had previuosly had a few people with CPL/IR's who had worked there for a few months and then went onto fly jets!!!

They knew my intention was to make some good contacts in the airlines and that mustnt have bothered them too much!!!


Anyone esle working at Man who could offer some advice for me, would be much appreciated!!!

Emirates / Virgin - cabin to cockpit
 

Is there any anecdotal evidence to suggest that low houred pilots have been successful in moving from cabin crew to FO positions in airlines such as Emirates, where they like their new FOs to have heavy jet time?

Thanks.

Cabin crew time is not a substitute for pilot flying hours. No airline which demands several thousand flying hours (ie pilot experience) from its applicants will waive that requirement because you are cabin crew.

The only airlines that will recruit from the ranks of CC are those which have an established cadet scheme and a training structure that goes from zero flight time to jet RHS. Virgin is certainly not one of those. Emirates might be - but almost certainly only for UAE nationals. To qualify, you'd have to meet the nationality and age stipulations of the course, as well as pass all the relevant selection procedures.

The other route you might consider (which has been used in many airlines, though not at Virgin) is effectively taking an extended leave of absence from your company while you go and get trained and build up to the company's required experience level - which may take a good few years. You may then be invited to rejoin the company as a pilot if you're lucky. It's a long shot, but it might work.

Scroggs

On my last CRM course out 12 pilots present, 8 had been Cabin Crew but...
All of us were self improver, therefore we had qualified before /whilst working as crew and only one or two had worked for our present employer.
Possibly a good way to make contacts though a friend of mine worked for Sabre and got a 727 job within 3 months of working... Not with Sabre though but because of it.

Like anyhting when it comes to get a job, no magic receipe.


PS: Just remembered that a few years back BA ran an internal recruitment drive. Qualified people to apply only but some had been engineers, some had been cabin crew.
Of course by the time I joined BA though, it was over...

as far as i'm aware it is a requirement to sit a brush-up course before you attempt any exams...

when you say "I don't know if it's gonna be very manageable to take twice two weeks off for the brush up courses besides days off to sit the exams..."
are you referring to the fact it is inconvienient to use your annual leave for the brush course, or do you mean you cannot take leave????
there are plenty of cabin crew i work with who have done the same and have had no problem getting leave to do the brush up course..

"...those of us who you are working for a company which doesn't seem to allow to take some days off in that way...."

in what way??
what is the problem??

unfortunately i had to use all my leave for this year on my brush up courses......a necessity I'm afraid...

:yuk:

Same here guys I did my ATPLs on a distance learning basis with Bristol groundschool while working full time as cabin crew for a Low cost in the UK.

It's a requirement to attend the brush up course and quite frankly I don't think i would have passed the exams without attending the classes.

So DX man I suggest you try to use your annual leave (that's what I did).

It's hard work .

Good luck

CFTO

thanks
 

Thank you guys for inputs.

Well I think i'm going to do the same (to use my annual leave) ;)

CFTO check your PM

:ok:

From cabin crew to pilot...is it realistic???
 

Hi people, I realy want to be a pilot but unfortunely I don´t have enough money to do my training.

I was wondering what option would be better to get the money I need and consequently continue pursuing my dream.

Then I remember I could try to start as Cabin Crew to get some money and some experience or connections.:}
I heard some managed that way but some say it´s almost impossible to be a pilot for people like me (people who don´t have thousands of euros):(

Others have said to forget it and start thinking in ATC which is not easy too but is a lot more cheaper!:hmm:

But it´s not easy for a peson who always wanted to be a pilot to give it up that way, just because of the STUPID money!:{

Anyway, if you have some ideas that you´d like to share than be free to do that!
I would realy appreciate!:ok:

Hope to hear your comments soon!!!!!


P.S. Im twenty years old and I´m from Portugal.

Unless you can get scholarship then you will have to pay for your training.

When you think of the overall costs involved you do get a bit jaded and think 'gosh how can i afford that?' I certainly did.

I'm 19, so just younger than yourself, I work 40hrs a week full time, and take home the average wage a 19 yr can expect, and I put 3/4 of my monthly wage into flying. It took me 6/7 months to get my PPL and now i'm spending all my wages on VFR flying, in around 1 yrs time I hope to have around 150hrs with my IMC rating and ready to start my ATPL theory.

I will save up a few months to cover the costs of my ATPLs theory and after this point, I may vist the bank manager for a little loan to get my CPL/IR done and perhaps my FI rating.

This way the debt isn't upto my eye balls and i'm taking it at a steady and enjoyable pace.

Wow! That's one sensible 19 year old!

Good luck to you mate! :ok:

i had some pilot friend which started as cabincrew in the airline,after few year of working they try to apply for the cadet pilot program and they manage to get it and now some of them are F.O for 747...

Well done wbryce...you remember me!
I started working two years ago as Lifeguard during summers and I managed to save 10 000 euros!

It wasn´t easy seeing the others getting new cars and all that stuff while I was with so much money in the bank for my future training!
But time has passed and the 10000 are there intact!

About those cadet pilot programs, not all comapanies have them or have they?
I know easyjet has but im not sure about the rest of them!

Thank you all for your replies!!!!!

i'm currently doing atpl ground school and theres 2 cabin crew in my class, one downstairs doing his i/r , i know of one person who was a cabin crew member for easyjet and is now flying 75's . so i think its possible. albeit the two flying are a "little" in debt.

GB recently started a scheme where they sponsor some of their cabin crew for pilot training. However I think this is pretty unique in the industry.

I teach ATPL groundschool. We have a lot of students through the course who have worked as cabin crew, and generally they do better than average on the course. They get to know aviation, they have access to good advice before taking the course, knowing so many pilots, and have realistic expectations. They also tend to get jobs more easily due to the connections they have made.

Money is tough, but you are young and have time to complete the courses gradually, and to pay back any loans you need to take out over the course of a career.

I agree with Send Clowns about the Cabin Crew having no problem with the flying.

It's who you are not what you are, if that wasn't true I wouldn't have taught people as diverse as Solicitors, Policemen and Cabin Crew who all went on to become pilots.

Oh and Emma G, please notice I said "Crew" not "Staff" (she knows what I mean :O )

In fact thinking back, one of the Cabin Crew I taught, a gentleman called Nayan was amoungst the cleverest people I've met, and a really nice guy to boot.

Getting a job in aviation to build up your funds is a great idea as you're in touch with the sharp end and should find out about vacancies first. You'll also get your face recognised which will help.

Good Luck

Million thanks to you all!!!

You don´t imagine how good it is to read your words.:O

I think I will manage to save a good money as Cabin Crew, after all I saved 10 000 in only two summers as a lifeguard!

There´s one thing I´m not sure about... should I make my PPL asap and enter an Airline as cabin crew after it or shall I go to UK now and start working and do all the training after?

Cause I know if I had the PPL I could study for the ATPL while I was working.
As I told before I saved 10 000 euros, that would allow me to do a PPL and NQ in the States easily.

What is your opinion?

Oh...once again, thanks for your replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Bruno Silva