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-   -   The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2. (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/250640-ctc-wings-cadets-thread-part-2-a.html)

razor27 13th Mar 2012 22:44

No, you can be let go at any time, it is a zero hours contract, although as long as you mantain the standard you will get some hours.
However......
As many people have found ej have over recruited massive amounts of FO's over the last two years (something we were told they would not do) so the flexicrew guys who were getting 900 hours a year are now finding that these hours are dropping off considerably. Over the winter plenty of people were flying 10-20 hours a month. That works out to about £1000 gross with a standby thrown in. That's tough to live on. Yes, but you fly loads in the summer I hear you say, great, a possible 100 hours in the summer months works out at circa 4.5k gross a month for about 4 months. Enough to break even from the incremental debt you got into over the winter and then it's back into the lean winter season.
Basically throw in another 5k loan at least for additional living expenses in the first year of flying and forget about paying back any of the loan which will be rapidly growing through accumulated interest.
Although with expansion rapidly slowing down at ej I would have thought that the odds of getting into a job are increasingly slim.
I would wait to see what kind of deal the MPL guys get when they get on the line.
Seeing as how they can only work for ej I can't see them being on anything like the hourly rate currently 'enjoyed' by flexicrew pilots.

The risk/reward ratio skyrocketed towards risk over the last 2 years. Anyone who signs up for a course of flying training now without a very clear exit strategy if all goes belly up and who simply hopes that they will get a job is, in my humble opinion, crazy.

Bombarde 14th Mar 2012 18:32

Accommodation
 
Hi, I'm due to start my course in October and was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the CTC accommodation in Southampton. They are very happy to show Clearways looking wonderful in NZ on the website but don't really mention what 'shared accommodation' will actually look like. Can anyone clarify for me or even post a pic?

Bealzebub 14th Mar 2012 19:41

The shared accommodation is comprised of houses rented on the commercial market. The ones I have seen are typical four and five bedroom modern homes on estates in nearby towns. You will need your own transport to commute a few miles into Nursling. Often people will share lifts with someone who has their own transport.

Bombarde 14th Mar 2012 23:55

Great, thanks.

MylesSRi 15th Mar 2012 15:44

Razor27, thanks for the info. I agree with you, it would be hard to get a Job and I also think it would be difficult to financially survive even if you did!

Would anyone know if EJ still offer permanent contracts when you get enough experience? Whether it is for a base abroad or in the UK doesn't really matter to me.

razor27 15th Mar 2012 18:07

Myles,

Yes, people are constantly heading off to Milan and Paris at the moment, not so much the other European bases. However, this is because so many new captains are coming from these bases and heading to LGW. Again, the number of command courses will rapidly slow down in the next couple of years which will slow down the recruitment and therefore movement to European bases.
If you are lucky enough to get into easy after finishing your training then plan on being on flexicrew for at least 2 years on much lower terms than currently exist. I'm pretty sure by then the management will have come up with ingenious ways of lowering terms in the European bases too so moving to them on a permanent contract will become less attractive.
My last point is that since starting flying training the terms and conditions have dropped at a jaw dropping rate. I am constantly amazed at how low the conditions have become.
Believe me, it becomes very tiresome losing 15% of your monthly pay when a nice long 4 sector day gets replaced with an AMS. It is impossible to plan because your monthly pay will vary so much even after your roster is published because of all the changes.

Sounds negative? Yep, this is the reality....

Stonebaked 15th Mar 2012 18:11

Anyone else currently on CP100 ?

razor27 15th Mar 2012 18:47

lol, oh well......

average-punter 15th Mar 2012 20:25

razor27
 
Thanks for the info! Is any of the roster fixed for instance the the first week? At what point are you offered a perm contract on the continent i.e is it straight after line training? Also what are the hoops to jump through to get one?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to research as much as I can

Cheers!

HPbleed 15th Mar 2012 22:02

At what point? There is no point. You have to APPLY - go through a whole NEW interview process and group exercises even if you have flown for eJ for 3 or more years. These aren't hoops either. People fail at this stage and remain a flexicrew pilot. None of the roster is fixed.

Please also be aware that the future is not permanent contracts at easyJet. eJ don't want it, CTC/OAA don't want it because they get a cut from your flexicrew salary. eJ is becoming Ryanair - expect to pay for everything and get nothing. Expect in 3 years to have contract Captains, no permanent FO's and further degradations to working conditions.

average-punter 15th Mar 2012 22:40

Thanks for your response HP, seems like I completely misunderstood how the system works.

razor27 15th Mar 2012 22:45

average punter

HPBleed is spot on.
There really is no future for permanent positions at easyJet.
The callousness of the communications we get from management are truly amazing.
It is very clear to anyone with an ounce of foresight that the future at easy is contract Captains. Frankly the only thing holding the t's & c's of pilots in Europe together are the European unions. Balpa have openly admitted that they are not interested in pursuing the rights of flexicrew pilots so the rot has set and will only get worse.

razor27 16th Mar 2012 08:15

Yes, I am on a permanent contract but went through 18 months of flexiscrew.
When the latest pay deal came out Balpa had negotiated a pay freeze for flexiscrew for another 2 years. For some reason it is acceptable for us to accept a pay drop over the next 2 years. What kind of union negotiates that?

Having been in the industry for a few years I now realise that self interest rules, don't expect anyone to watch your back and certainly don't expect the 'friendly' management to do anything except try and screw you.
The communication all FO's have received in the last 48 hours about swaps is testament to that.

BlackandBrown 16th Mar 2012 08:42

All of this aside average punter, try and see the wood for the trees. Contracts and bases etc are all fine detail when compared with:

1. Can you finance the training?
2. Can you take the risk?
3. Will you pass all the training?
4. Will you be a good boy or girl and keep your head down so CTC don't get angry with you? I.e. accept everything they say to you with no reply from your side other than 'yes sir, no sir - I'm not a customer, I'm a very lucky boy or girl sir'. In other words you do not have a right to dissatisfaction - some people can't cope with that. This may be the same at all FTOs - I only trained at CTC so I don't know.
5. Why do you really want this?
6. If you don't train what will be the effect on you? Could you accept it?

Don't try and predict the future - the industry, what's on offer and your flexibility WILL change for the better or worse when out the other side of training. Though you may think you're being sensible asking what you're asking you are in fact being irrelevant.

It's all just my opinion, not advice - don't look for advice on here unless it is targeted, specifically through PM from people with a proven track record in posting.

razor27 16th Mar 2012 10:34

Indeed they did spicejetter.

Don't expect a permanent contract in the UK anytime soon.

Vive la France.

BlackandBrown 16th Mar 2012 12:22

The funny thing is by their very actions flexicrew are accepting and allowing it to happen. Those who put a priority on money and security have taken a Permanant mainland contract at the first instance or gone to other airlines on a Permanant contract. Those who have made it their highest priority to be in the uk are financially far worse off, a month away from no job, still being subsidised by someone and are perpetually complaining. A few are unecessarily bankrupt. Make your choice and live with it. As a caveat - I know there are one or two who need to be in the uk, at home for genuine personal reasons ( ill relatives and new offspring) and I sympathise with their situation.

Kishanp 18th Mar 2012 00:19

Just got back from the CTC Open Day... Got some time on the 737 Sim and allowed my parents a better insight into the CTC Wings Cadet program.

There's a lot of negative talk here about how Pilots are forced to slave away for long hours on the flexicrew program. Today I was informed that the holding pool is empty and every pilot has been given a full job with the airlines, direct entry I think.

Anyone else there today?


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