Bit of Advice Please
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Bit of Advice Please
Hi all,
Right, getting a little bit frustrated at the moment as i'm sure everyone else is who isn't yet employed in an office at 5 miles high.
Anyhow, just after a bit of advice, I'm 21 and hold a Frozen JAR ATPL with 240 hours, i went modular by the way, just out of interest how many people do you know who went modular with similar type of hours and age got straight into the airlines??
Reason i ask is i am considering a FI Rating, is it worth it at the moment, or should i just sit the current situation out for a few more months??
I am sick of being in the catch 22 situation where I have 240 hours and am qualified to join an airline however they want 1500 hours with 500 hours jet time, even turboprop airlines want at least 1000 hours fixed wing. So the only way to do this is to sit in a C152 bashing holes in the sky unti li reach the magical figure. Im not paying for a Type Rating, i'd probably have more luck on the lottery.
Cheers.
Right, getting a little bit frustrated at the moment as i'm sure everyone else is who isn't yet employed in an office at 5 miles high.
Anyhow, just after a bit of advice, I'm 21 and hold a Frozen JAR ATPL with 240 hours, i went modular by the way, just out of interest how many people do you know who went modular with similar type of hours and age got straight into the airlines??
Reason i ask is i am considering a FI Rating, is it worth it at the moment, or should i just sit the current situation out for a few more months??
I am sick of being in the catch 22 situation where I have 240 hours and am qualified to join an airline however they want 1500 hours with 500 hours jet time, even turboprop airlines want at least 1000 hours fixed wing. So the only way to do this is to sit in a C152 bashing holes in the sky unti li reach the magical figure. Im not paying for a Type Rating, i'd probably have more luck on the lottery.
Cheers.
Last edited by cleared24right; 14th Aug 2003 at 01:22.
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"Qualified to join an airline" you may well be but you have no experience, the FI route would be good to get some hours otherwise you may never get a job, you could try the easyjet scheme.
Good luck
Good luck
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Cleared24Right
I know exactly how you feel ... I also have a frozen ATPL with a recent MCC, all completed modular !
I am currently 21 years old with 400 hours and have just started the FIC ! I to had the frustrating feeling of not knowing what to do next ... not prepared to do a type rating unless a job was almost garunteed !
So the FIC is how im going to build my experience and hours once complete. I can't see many other options available apart from joining an airline in ops, and getting to know the right people ???
Age is on our side, and if i do have to instruct for 4 years will only be 25 ... so whilst as much as i expect to enjoy instructing - i still want to fly commercially as do most other instructors !
Good luck
I am currently 21 years old with 400 hours and have just started the FIC ! I to had the frustrating feeling of not knowing what to do next ... not prepared to do a type rating unless a job was almost garunteed !
So the FIC is how im going to build my experience and hours once complete. I can't see many other options available apart from joining an airline in ops, and getting to know the right people ???
Age is on our side, and if i do have to instruct for 4 years will only be 25 ... so whilst as much as i expect to enjoy instructing - i still want to fly commercially as do most other instructors !
Good luck
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Essex Boy,
Whereabouts did you do your training?? And where are you doing your FIC? Have you had any luck in someone offering you a job instructing upon completion of your course??
Cheers
Whereabouts did you do your training?? And where are you doing your FIC? Have you had any luck in someone offering you a job instructing upon completion of your course??
Cheers
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where I have 240 hours and am qualified to join an airline however they want 1500 hours with 500 hours jet time, even turboprop airlines want at least 1000 hours fixed wing. So the only way to do this is to sit in a C152 bashing holes in the sky unti li reach the magical figure. Im not paying for a Type Rating, i'd probably have more luck on the lottery.
ah ah, sorry, but I have had a big laugh!
there are outside 1000nd guys with 2000h and more, and you say you are qualified to fly for an airline, so what are the other guys?. Tell us why you want be on the top of the waiting list, when all these pilots are more qualified than you and are like you waiting for job.
Yes, you are qualified to fly a c152, so go on a c152, Mr Lazy pilot!!.
and in 10 years or more, you will maybe have the minimum requirements to fly for an airline (4000h, 500h jet)
ah ah, sorry, but I have had a big laugh!
there are outside 1000nd guys with 2000h and more, and you say you are qualified to fly for an airline, so what are the other guys?. Tell us why you want be on the top of the waiting list, when all these pilots are more qualified than you and are like you waiting for job.
Yes, you are qualified to fly a c152, so go on a c152, Mr Lazy pilot!!.
and in 10 years or more, you will maybe have the minimum requirements to fly for an airline (4000h, 500h jet)
Experience Vs Qualifications
Surely you did some research before embarking on your training 24R? I cannot believe that you entered into spending £25k+ without checking out your employment prospects after gaining your CPL/IR. Even during "the boom" times getting an airline job with 250 hours was a struggle without a few contacts, even worse post 2001. Anyone who told you different was either selling a course to you, ignorant or lying.
Nearly everyone who sits comfortably in their office at 5 miles (what about the chaps from 1/2 mile to 4.9 miles) has been through the situation you find yourself in, many of them several times throughout their careers with '000s of hours under their belts. You aren't alone (clearly or you'd be offered a job tomorrow) They are employed through experience, hard work and quite often sheer luck.
The "current situation" for low houred chaps like yourself is not going to improve for the forseeable future, there is too much uncertainty in the world and, more importantly, too many out of work pilots with a wealth of experience (read type-rated). Airlines love experience (but not too much) cause it lowers their premiums and associated training costs.
Your last comments about your sense of injustice in the world can only be born of your frustrations. The hoops will always move and so will the requirements for airlines. At the moment it is an employers market and they can pick and choose who they like. My analogy to anyone considering aviation is to think of it like Motor Racing, everyone wants to drive for the big F1 teams, especially those in karting, but only the lucky few get there.
Get the FI rating and get some hours under your belt. It leads to all sorts of opportunities that you may not be considering at the moment and one of them might be the job you feel you are owed.
Nearly everyone who sits comfortably in their office at 5 miles (what about the chaps from 1/2 mile to 4.9 miles) has been through the situation you find yourself in, many of them several times throughout their careers with '000s of hours under their belts. You aren't alone (clearly or you'd be offered a job tomorrow
) They are employed through experience, hard work and quite often sheer luck.The "current situation" for low houred chaps like yourself is not going to improve for the forseeable future, there is too much uncertainty in the world and, more importantly, too many out of work pilots with a wealth of experience (read type-rated). Airlines love experience (but not too much) cause it lowers their premiums and associated training costs.
Your last comments about your sense of injustice in the world can only be born of your frustrations. The hoops will always move and so will the requirements for airlines. At the moment it is an employers market and they can pick and choose who they like. My analogy to anyone considering aviation is to think of it like Motor Racing, everyone wants to drive for the big F1 teams, especially those in karting, but only the lucky few get there.
Get the FI rating and get some hours under your belt. It leads to all sorts of opportunities that you may not be considering at the moment and one of them might be the job you feel you are owed.
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If you absolutely can't wait to get your hands on the big stuff, the other option for roughly the same money as an FI rating is the CTC ATP scheme. Check out www.ctcaviation.com and look under services to individual pilots - note this isn't the ab-initio scheme, it's for qualified pilots. If you pass selection and the 3 week AQC course (which includes MCC) you make it into a pool awaiting placement with a jet airline. Do a search and you'll find lots of hits.
Only catch is that it's probably a little more financially risky than an FI rating as you have to pass AQC first time to make it into the pool whereas I guess you can do a retake on an FI test.
I've got nothing against the FI route, especially considering your age. Just another option to think about... Good luck.
Only catch is that it's probably a little more financially risky than an FI rating as you have to pass AQC first time to make it into the pool whereas I guess you can do a retake on an FI test.
I've got nothing against the FI route, especially considering your age. Just another option to think about... Good luck.
Last edited by buttline; 15th Aug 2003 at 12:05.
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CLEARED24RIGHT
Firstly congratulations on passing the course. Quite an achievement to get that under your belt and I am thoroughly jealous!
Personally I would be opting for the FI course as you will earn money, meet more people and build your hours. When you get the instructional hours up you could be looking at smaller, regional operators before that elusive jet job.
Keep your chin up and good luck.
Firstly congratulations on passing the course. Quite an achievement to get that under your belt and I am thoroughly jealous!
Personally I would be opting for the FI course as you will earn money, meet more people and build your hours. When you get the instructional hours up you could be looking at smaller, regional operators before that elusive jet job.
Keep your chin up and good luck.
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1) Start the FI rating
2) Apply to CTC: ****** all hours -> shiny jet in one easy leap
Incidentally does anybody know of anyone who's been accepted for the easyJet TRSS scheme with 500hrs-ish...
2) Apply to CTC: ****** all hours -> shiny jet in one easy leap
Incidentally does anybody know of anyone who's been accepted for the easyJet TRSS scheme with 500hrs-ish...
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Mate
You might be qualified but you don't have the experience. Sorry to put a dampener on your situation.
Put it this way. Would you go to a brand new doctor straight out of school who knows how to do a circumcision but actually hasn't performed one or go to the doctor who has done thousands of them?
Get some experience. Try instructing or meat bombing or glider towing. Something that will help with the hours.
Most places won't touch you without 500 hours TT. This is usually for insurance purposes.
Hope this helps.
You might be qualified but you don't have the experience. Sorry to put a dampener on your situation.
Put it this way. Would you go to a brand new doctor straight out of school who knows how to do a circumcision but actually hasn't performed one or go to the doctor who has done thousands of them?
Get some experience. Try instructing or meat bombing or glider towing. Something that will help with the hours.
Most places won't touch you without 500 hours TT. This is usually for insurance purposes.
Hope this helps.
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currency is vital to pass the sim ride
1. There are some turbo prop operators who do not require anything more than the minimum. Furthermore I think GB air, for example, have taken on some competent Jerez students onto the airbus.
2. What is important is to remain current, otherwise when you come for the sim ride those skills which you had to pass the IRT will be, to say the least, rusty.
One hour in a FNPT 2 every two weeks is essential to keep those IF skills in shape.
3. The FI route is a good way to keep current, even if the pay is less than what a FO would receive.
4. The bottom line is that you are wasting your time applying to any airline unless you are current. The longer you go without sim or flying, the less likely you are finding yourself in the right hand seat.
2. What is important is to remain current, otherwise when you come for the sim ride those skills which you had to pass the IRT will be, to say the least, rusty.
One hour in a FNPT 2 every two weeks is essential to keep those IF skills in shape.
3. The FI route is a good way to keep current, even if the pay is less than what a FO would receive.
4. The bottom line is that you are wasting your time applying to any airline unless you are current. The longer you go without sim or flying, the less likely you are finding yourself in the right hand seat.
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Guys,
Just because you have the ticket doesn't mean, that's it, where is my job.
I was in your position, I was told you need 1000 hours, so I went out and got the hours any way I could. I bought in to an aircraft share and built up the hours, also I saved up and went to the US for more hours.
It took blood, sweat and tears but I got there. Three years later I am on the 747-400.
Put your mind to it and you will get there. Just remember, getting the ticket is the easy part, getting the first job is the hardest part.
Good luck.
SC........................
Just because you have the ticket doesn't mean, that's it, where is my job.
I was in your position, I was told you need 1000 hours, so I went out and got the hours any way I could. I bought in to an aircraft share and built up the hours, also I saved up and went to the US for more hours.
It took blood, sweat and tears but I got there. Three years later I am on the 747-400.
Put your mind to it and you will get there. Just remember, getting the ticket is the easy part, getting the first job is the hardest part.
Good luck.
SC........................
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Relax
Don't sweat it; you guys with 250hrs at 21 yrs- there are lots of guys in lots of other places that have thousands of hours who are still sloggin it out- try canada not unlikely to have 4000hrs and be flying a navajo........
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Here's a tit-bit of info for you guys over in Europe.
A mate of mine from NZ with ATPL and several thousand hours went over and converted his licence. (6000 I think, mostly as Command)
He got a job on EasyJet as an F/O 737. He spent 18 months sitting there in the right hand seat waiting.
When he got his Command on the 737 his F/O was a brand new 737 F/O with 300 hours under his belt.
When the weather got a bit rough he was hesitant and landing in a crosswind was a complete disaster.
He knew his stuff, passed every subject first time and was a complete whiz. However flying wise with only 300 hours he still had a lot to learn.
Good on him for getting in but I think this shows a lack of flying experience over getting the ticket and being able to fly.
A mate of mine from NZ with ATPL and several thousand hours went over and converted his licence. (6000 I think, mostly as Command)
He got a job on EasyJet as an F/O 737. He spent 18 months sitting there in the right hand seat waiting.
When he got his Command on the 737 his F/O was a brand new 737 F/O with 300 hours under his belt.
When the weather got a bit rough he was hesitant and landing in a crosswind was a complete disaster.
He knew his stuff, passed every subject first time and was a complete whiz. However flying wise with only 300 hours he still had a lot to learn.
Good on him for getting in but I think this shows a lack of flying experience over getting the ticket and being able to fly.
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Its not always easy to move on when you get some jet hours. I have 2500 total a full ATPL and 1000 on jet (Falcon 20). I would love to move to the airlines but not a sniff, why? beacause I dont have a Boeing or Airbus rating. There is still a great element of who you know and being in the right place in the pile of cv's.
So keep flying whatever you can and one day you will get to FL360.
So keep flying whatever you can and one day you will get to FL360.
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After searching most places for a job, including the local chinese(i got free food!), I wandered off and did an FI course. Lucky enougth for me I was offered a job the day I finnished by someone who just happened to be there doing a a multi rennual.
I spent 9 months doing that and was then offered a job flying pa31s. Which Im still doing. And its bl00dy good fun.
At the mo Im only 22 and I wouldnt give this up for anything.....even a big shiny jet.
Anyway.....what Im getting at is.......airline jobs arn't everything.
And who wants to fly an auto pilot?
I spent 9 months doing that and was then offered a job flying pa31s. Which Im still doing. And its bl00dy good fun.
At the mo Im only 22 and I wouldnt give this up for anything.....even a big shiny jet.
Anyway.....what Im getting at is.......airline jobs arn't everything.
And who wants to fly an auto pilot?
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Good point Homer.....
I would say to any newly qualified pilot don't aim for the shiny jets:getting on one straight off would be tricky and don't overlook the fun that could be had elsewhere in the meantime:remember once you get on the jets most of your time will be spent on autopilot so flying a PA31 or the like is some of the most fun you will have.
Everybody gets frustrated and i myself tore my hair out on many occasions:getting that job is 80 % right place/time and 20 %qualifications and it can be done but it takes TIME.
i was made redundant after 11th \Sep with 3,500 hrs/1500 jet and it took three months to get that first interview and then another six for a second !!Thats the reality.If you start at 20/21 you have nothing to fear even if it takes you till the age of 30 to get ina 737,747 or whatever you will still be young and have 30 years in the profession in your shiny jet.
I would say to any newly qualified pilot don't aim for the shiny jets:getting on one straight off would be tricky and don't overlook the fun that could be had elsewhere in the meantime:remember once you get on the jets most of your time will be spent on autopilot so flying a PA31 or the like is some of the most fun you will have.
Everybody gets frustrated and i myself tore my hair out on many occasions:getting that job is 80 % right place/time and 20 %qualifications and it can be done but it takes TIME.
i was made redundant after 11th \Sep with 3,500 hrs/1500 jet and it took three months to get that first interview and then another six for a second !!Thats the reality.If you start at 20/21 you have nothing to fear even if it takes you till the age of 30 to get ina 737,747 or whatever you will still be young and have 30 years in the profession in your shiny jet.