Type rating of choice - hypothetically
I say there boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Type rating of choice - hypothetically
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I was in the lottery win scenario, money was suddenly no object, and I was convinced that a self-sponsored type rating was the way forward, which TR would you reckon would be the best for getting an airline job in the UK at this time?
737-3/5?
73NG?
757?
A32x?
ATR?
Shed?
Other type?
Please don't turn this into the merits/demerits of a self-sponsored type rating as we've discussed that one to death many times before.
Discuss...
737-3/5?
73NG?
757?
A32x?
ATR?
Shed?
Other type?
Please don't turn this into the merits/demerits of a self-sponsored type rating as we've discussed that one to death many times before.
Discuss...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Questions only you can answer.
What sort of flying do you want to do?
What sort of flying do you enjoy? Have you researched the pro's and con's of the flying that is around.
Short haul jet multi sectors?
Long haul IT type of flying?
Long/medium haul freight?
Short haul multi sector turboprop night freight?
Regional short haul pax ops?
What do you think would be suited to your temperament, skills, domestic situation?
Where do you want to live?
Will the flying fit into your lifestyle?
How fast do you want to progress into the LHS?
Will the supposed companies take you with only a type rating and no experience? Are you that good that you can convince them? (I only know of one person so far that has got a job with a bare type rating on a jet from a training organisation that wasn't associated with the airline. He had about 500 hours TT. Yes he is that good.)
What sort of flying do you want to do?
What sort of flying do you enjoy? Have you researched the pro's and con's of the flying that is around.
Short haul jet multi sectors?
Long haul IT type of flying?
Long/medium haul freight?
Short haul multi sector turboprop night freight?
Regional short haul pax ops?
What do you think would be suited to your temperament, skills, domestic situation?
Where do you want to live?
Will the flying fit into your lifestyle?
How fast do you want to progress into the LHS?
Will the supposed companies take you with only a type rating and no experience? Are you that good that you can convince them? (I only know of one person so far that has got a job with a bare type rating on a jet from a training organisation that wasn't associated with the airline. He had about 500 hours TT. Yes he is that good.)
I say there boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, let's put aside the lifestyle issues at the moment, although I understand that they are very important in the long run, let's say that like most wannabes I'm happy to take any job offered. Naturally if given the luxury of a choice would be attracted to the job that pays the most to do as little of the most glamourous work as possible 
On the simple criterion of how many doors will potentially be opened, which is the better Type Rating? Remember money is no object in this hypothetical situation, however the potential negative effects on employability (to TP airlines) of having a jet type on my licence might be a factor.
tailscrape
You didn't read my bit about not turning this into a merits of self-sponsored type ratings thread, did you
Splat
Sounds good - I'll give you a call, mate.
edited for typos
On the simple criterion of how many doors will potentially be opened, which is the better Type Rating? Remember money is no object in this hypothetical situation, however the potential negative effects on employability (to TP airlines) of having a jet type on my licence might be a factor.
tailscrape
You didn't read my bit about not turning this into a merits of self-sponsored type ratings thread, did you
Splat
Sounds good - I'll give you a call, mate.
edited for typos
Last edited by foghorn; 7th Jul 2003 at 03:19.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: f015
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it would be better to go for a non fly-by-wire type.
After talking to a few peeps i've come to the following conclusion
If your just starting to fly a commercial jet you won't learn much by having airbus modify your over eager stick movements.
Flying a 737, say, if you make a big control input you'll know about it and learn from it, as your coffee soaks slowly into your trousers.
So, i think i'll go for any of the boeing options.
After talking to a few peeps i've come to the following conclusion
If your just starting to fly a commercial jet you won't learn much by having airbus modify your over eager stick movements.
Flying a 737, say, if you make a big control input you'll know about it and learn from it, as your coffee soaks slowly into your trousers.
So, i think i'll go for any of the boeing options.
Quote "If your just starting to fly a commercial jet you won't learn much by having airbus modify your over eager stick movements.
Flying a 737, say, if you make a big control input you'll know about it and learn from it, as your coffee soaks slowly into your trousers"
Pure and utter twoddle if you ask me. The decision should be based upon what makes you more marketable bearing in mind that your ruling yourself out of the type that you've not just done.
Splat
Flying a 737, say, if you make a big control input you'll know about it and learn from it, as your coffee soaks slowly into your trousers"
Pure and utter twoddle if you ask me. The decision should be based upon what makes you more marketable bearing in mind that your ruling yourself out of the type that you've not just done.
Splat
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: CWL
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A non -200 737 rating will give you 300-900 on your license, in essence both classics and NGs.
However, if you train on one and then go to fly the other you need to do a differences course, I would say it's easier to go from the classic to the NG rather than the other way around - the improvements are easier to adjust to rather than learning the limitations of the classic (and the electrics is a nightmare).
So if you're going to do a 737 course do a 3/4/5.
I'm not sure that there's any value in doing a -200 course.
Regards
However, if you train on one and then go to fly the other you need to do a differences course, I would say it's easier to go from the classic to the NG rather than the other way around - the improvements are easier to adjust to rather than learning the limitations of the classic (and the electrics is a nightmare).
So if you're going to do a 737 course do a 3/4/5.
I'm not sure that there's any value in doing a -200 course.
Regards
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PJDJ,
Agree entirley.
FOGHORN,
If you know the answers, why ask the question? If you did your homework and a bit of a search on PPRUNE, you would find that this subject has been covered before. So, don't get arsey with me please.
Agree entirley.
FOGHORN,
If you know the answers, why ask the question? If you did your homework and a bit of a search on PPRUNE, you would find that this subject has been covered before. So, don't get arsey with me please.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foggy,
The best TR if money is no object is clearly for one's private 737-BBJ
Just kidding - If I were going to go down that route (I'm not), I would rent an hour in the Level D simulator for each type I was interested in together with a freelance instructor for that type (so he hasn't got a vested interest in selling me a course). That gives you a chance to see which one you like flying more and hopefully the guy showing you the ropes will have some idea what the demand is like for the type, maybe even some contacts.
I asked the same question recently to the pilot agencies who place experienced contract pilots around the world and they found it impossible to answer - varies month to month from location to location apparently.
IMHO, I reckon a Boeing rating would be a more 'fun' first TR to do from a handflying point of view but the Airbus ratings are more portable between types so may offer a larger employer catchment area...
I'd be very cautious about paying 10K+ for a turbo-prop TR in case I had to do it again when offered a jet job..
You have to really weigh up the costs here I think. Even if you have a lot of money - it'll take a long time to pay back the extra 15-20k from an FO's salary. If it means you get a job only 1 or 2 years earlier because you did a TR, it really doesn't make financial sense at the end of the day but I understand the burning desire to get on..
The best TR if money is no object is clearly for one's private 737-BBJ
Just kidding - If I were going to go down that route (I'm not), I would rent an hour in the Level D simulator for each type I was interested in together with a freelance instructor for that type (so he hasn't got a vested interest in selling me a course). That gives you a chance to see which one you like flying more and hopefully the guy showing you the ropes will have some idea what the demand is like for the type, maybe even some contacts.
I asked the same question recently to the pilot agencies who place experienced contract pilots around the world and they found it impossible to answer - varies month to month from location to location apparently.
IMHO, I reckon a Boeing rating would be a more 'fun' first TR to do from a handflying point of view but the Airbus ratings are more portable between types so may offer a larger employer catchment area...
I'd be very cautious about paying 10K+ for a turbo-prop TR in case I had to do it again when offered a jet job..
You have to really weigh up the costs here I think. Even if you have a lot of money - it'll take a long time to pay back the extra 15-20k from an FO's salary. If it means you get a job only 1 or 2 years earlier because you did a TR, it really doesn't make financial sense at the end of the day but I understand the burning desire to get on..
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another thing you might want to consider is this; by doing a type rating you are effectively putting all your eggs in one basket. If you decide that the 737 is the type that will make you most marketable, then you are closing all other types from consideration.
It is unlikely that turboprop operators will be interested in taking on someone who will, more than likely, disappear at the first sniff of a 737 job.
Similar to others I have fairly strong views on self funded type ratings.
It is unlikely that turboprop operators will be interested in taking on someone who will, more than likely, disappear at the first sniff of a 737 job.
Similar to others I have fairly strong views on self funded type ratings.
I say there boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to those who given good answers, keep 'em coming.
tailscrape
Sorry, I don't get your logic on that one. The reason I asked this question is I don't know the answer - I don't see me anywhere claiming that I do
On top of that, as buttline points out it's something that changes regularly.
Now I really don't want to pour oil on this one, but what I did say very clearly is that I didn't want to go down the old merits of a Self-sponsored type rating road, because I've done my homework and seen that it's been done to death. As flypuppy says, people have very strong opinions on that one. You provided no information other than to head straight down that road again. Hence I got 'arsey'. If you don't like what you read, why bother repeatedly responding?
cheers!
foggy
tailscrape
Sorry, I don't get your logic on that one. The reason I asked this question is I don't know the answer - I don't see me anywhere claiming that I do
On top of that, as buttline points out it's something that changes regularly.Now I really don't want to pour oil on this one, but what I did say very clearly is that I didn't want to go down the old merits of a Self-sponsored type rating road, because I've done my homework and seen that it's been done to death. As flypuppy says, people have very strong opinions on that one. You provided no information other than to head straight down that road again. Hence I got 'arsey'. If you don't like what you read, why bother repeatedly responding?
cheers!
foggy
Last edited by foghorn; 7th Jul 2003 at 19:29.
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foghorn,
Don't be dim. I did not go straight down that route "of the self sponsored type rating".
If you cannot see the fact that buying a rating is nearly pointless, or at best just funding an airline's profit margin, then you are in the wrong game mate. A rating without hours is generally useless. Did you ignore easyJet's latest ruling on the website re: type rated pilots??
You seem to have a problem with the way the airline training departments have worked ad infinitum. I maintain that the best rating is one which a company gives you, because that means you have a job. If you don't understand my logic, try thinking harder.
Any other rating is a wild gamble, especially one you pay for yourself because you have NO IDEA what airlines want or need that way. So, in short...gamble if you like. However, seeing as you must have loads of money can you lend me £100 as I fancy a horse in the 3.30 at Bath? It has a better chance of landing the golden goose than a non sponsored type rating....
Don't be dim. I did not go straight down that route "of the self sponsored type rating".
If you cannot see the fact that buying a rating is nearly pointless, or at best just funding an airline's profit margin, then you are in the wrong game mate. A rating without hours is generally useless. Did you ignore easyJet's latest ruling on the website re: type rated pilots??
You seem to have a problem with the way the airline training departments have worked ad infinitum. I maintain that the best rating is one which a company gives you, because that means you have a job. If you don't understand my logic, try thinking harder.
Any other rating is a wild gamble, especially one you pay for yourself because you have NO IDEA what airlines want or need that way. So, in short...gamble if you like. However, seeing as you must have loads of money can you lend me £100 as I fancy a horse in the 3.30 at Bath? It has a better chance of landing the golden goose than a non sponsored type rating....
I say there boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have a problem with anything, tailscrape I posed a hypothetical question and placed a simple constraint on the answers, that's all. I just pointed out that you seem not to have read that constraint. Really not worth getting so worked up about.
In this hypothetical situation money is no object, therefore a self-sponsored TR becomes much less of a gamble, unless it is completely worthless to a person's career prospects (possible, but unlikely to be completely so IMHO), or will have a serious negative effect on their employability, which is the valid argument about how a jet type rating would scare off potential TP employers.
Buttline seems to have the right idea with the BBJ. Maybe that should be called 'doing a Travolta'?
So then, roll up, roll up, pick a type, any type...
Cheers!
foggy.
In this hypothetical situation money is no object, therefore a self-sponsored TR becomes much less of a gamble, unless it is completely worthless to a person's career prospects (possible, but unlikely to be completely so IMHO), or will have a serious negative effect on their employability, which is the valid argument about how a jet type rating would scare off potential TP employers.
Buttline seems to have the right idea with the BBJ. Maybe that should be called 'doing a Travolta'?
So then, roll up, roll up, pick a type, any type...
Cheers!
foggy.
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FOGHORN
OK then, if it were just a frivolous game, I would probably go for an Airbus A320 series rating now. They seem to be getting quite a few orders these days.
easyJet have ordered a load of them, and as pilots are leaving that place in droves, it may be a good bet.
Tailscrape.
p.s. The horse came third
OK then, if it were just a frivolous game, I would probably go for an Airbus A320 series rating now. They seem to be getting quite a few orders these days.
easyJet have ordered a load of them, and as pilots are leaving that place in droves, it may be a good bet.
Tailscrape.
p.s. The horse came third
I say there boy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, tailscrape, that's what I've been hearing from quite a few others - I wonder if the self-sponsored TR du jour might change in the next few months...
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: cambridge uk
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think a 737 300 900 is the one I got the 300 and rated to 900 series, it got me a job too!
tailscrape - i am still waiting for that beer you promised me, i think i definitely deserve one now too.
foghorn - 737 or if you cant get the dosh ATR
tailscrape - i am still waiting for that beer you promised me, i think i definitely deserve one now too.
foghorn - 737 or if you cant get the dosh ATR
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: where ever I lay my head
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just wandering what will happen to Tailscrape his reaction as he finds out that CTC might start selling pre pay type ratings....
ps 737 NG or A320 would be my bet. However: never pay for a type rating unless you do it using company procedures and having a change of a job otherwise it is useless..
ps 737 NG or A320 would be my bet. However: never pay for a type rating unless you do it using company procedures and having a change of a job otherwise it is useless..
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AVIATIONTRAINERTOO
I don't care if they do or not. That is the answer. I have never paid for a rating and never will.
You will notice that most people agree with my sentiment about the subject, well at least pilots who have any experience or sense do.
I bet you are glad you paid for a rating just as jobs are becoming available. It will have served you really well that extra burden of debt. Congratulations.
I don't care if they do or not. That is the answer. I have never paid for a rating and never will.
You will notice that most people agree with my sentiment about the subject, well at least pilots who have any experience or sense do.
I bet you are glad you paid for a rating just as jobs are becoming available. It will have served you really well that extra burden of debt. Congratulations.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: where ever I lay my head
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I fit your two criteria verrrrry well thank you... and still do not agree that it would have been better to work for years as an FI at a flying club at no cost etc.
I make a more than proper wage and have less debt if I leave tomorrow than the average pilot with a bond which is far higher than the € 24k I paid!
I make a more than proper wage and have less debt if I leave tomorrow than the average pilot with a bond which is far higher than the € 24k I paid!