Major pilot shortage.......apparently !!!
Before "Ze Germans" get here
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: ?
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think I need to put my hands up here and admit I'm wrong...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F/O shortage
I work within a pilot recruitment department and I can assure you all that most airlines are short of either F/O's or Cpts. The reason for this is due to company budgets. Since 9/11 airlines have held onto their purse strings, waiting to see how the market reacts to the next political incident. It cost a considerable amount to train and type rate a cadet/Pilot. It makes sense from a business point of view not to recruit and let your current employees work that little bit harder.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear all,
This will be my very last post as I'm sure you will be very pleased to hear!
Over the last few weeks I have recieved a number of emails, a couple of which give me a right royal slagging off and even to the extent of calling me racist!
Well I have also recieved quite a few emails saying how people agreed with me and that i sould have not put my hands up so quickly. As these emails are from people who work in the big boy airplane business it does make me feel justified to say that I still feel it is unfair to employ other nationals before Brits!
I bet most of you feel that we are a soft touch letting in all these asylum seekers well you would be very right, the are too many Brit pilots out of work and they, we and me feel a bit hard done by
so what if I'm pissed off I have a right to be, most of the non-national pilots are here because they cant get a job in there own country...
And yes I would love to work in other countrys but I understand that if a national is out of work and the is a slot then he/she should Get it..
Simple it is...
Good luck to you all
I'm out of here
Speedjeans
This will be my very last post as I'm sure you will be very pleased to hear!
Over the last few weeks I have recieved a number of emails, a couple of which give me a right royal slagging off and even to the extent of calling me racist!
Well I have also recieved quite a few emails saying how people agreed with me and that i sould have not put my hands up so quickly. As these emails are from people who work in the big boy airplane business it does make me feel justified to say that I still feel it is unfair to employ other nationals before Brits!
I bet most of you feel that we are a soft touch letting in all these asylum seekers well you would be very right, the are too many Brit pilots out of work and they, we and me feel a bit hard done by
so what if I'm pissed off I have a right to be, most of the non-national pilots are here because they cant get a job in there own country...
And yes I would love to work in other countrys but I understand that if a national is out of work and the is a slot then he/she should Get it..
Simple it is...
Good luck to you all
I'm out of here
Speedjeans
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: fairview park
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, its true...!!
The amount of retirements for most major airlines (especially the USA) are about to see the biggest retirement bump in history. Airlines such as Continental will see 1800 of its now less than 3000 pilots retire by 2007!! United airlines will have similar percentages, and although there are many MANY guys on the street right now, there will be a rapid surge in hiring start to occur in 2005, evidence will surely be seen by the end of next year.
They always tell you this industry goes in cycles, just have faith...because it will happen....the numbers don't lie!! Get that jet time under your belt, and you could be in line for rapid PIC upgrade!!
They always tell you this industry goes in cycles, just have faith...because it will happen....the numbers don't lie!! Get that jet time under your belt, and you could be in line for rapid PIC upgrade!!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: lux
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there will be a rapid surge in hiring start to occur in 2005, evidence will surely be seen by the end of next year.
I'm sorry to tell that, but it's another false truth.
Just wait & see.
cumulo,
Don't loose sight of the fact that there has been in the past pilot shortages. The last one in the late 80's saw my instructor whipped off to one of the majors half way through my PPL. They just pitched up and offered interviews to all suitable candidates. They where desperate!
I've heard it said (note, NOT by me) from a couple of old boys that the current situation is not disimilar to the last shortage. Just for the record, these old boys had nothing to do with commercial training.
Just thought I'd add that.
Splat
Don't loose sight of the fact that there has been in the past pilot shortages. The last one in the late 80's saw my instructor whipped off to one of the majors half way through my PPL. They just pitched up and offered interviews to all suitable candidates. They where desperate!
I've heard it said (note, NOT by me) from a couple of old boys that the current situation is not disimilar to the last shortage. Just for the record, these old boys had nothing to do with commercial training.
Just thought I'd add that.
Splat
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Mostly Western hemisphere
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Were there also lots of experienced pilots from failed airlines in the 80's ? What about the number of wannabes compared to today ?
I don't have the answers, and I'd certainly like to believe you, but I'll need more info to buy that (interesting) theory.
I also hear some airlines are still afraid to "invest" in hiring right now, and prefer to push their crews to the limit.
I don't have the answers, and I'd certainly like to believe you, but I'll need more info to buy that (interesting) theory.
I also hear some airlines are still afraid to "invest" in hiring right now, and prefer to push their crews to the limit.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jump over to the American Forum fellas.
Last round of lay offs sees 7000 experienced pilots walking the streets looking for work (unquote).
Just thought you might like to know.
PS Good luck.
Last round of lay offs sees 7000 experienced pilots walking the streets looking for work (unquote).
Just thought you might like to know.
PS Good luck.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
Age: 60
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't panic folks, things are cyclical, and will turn once again.
I've watched mates leaving the RAF for a long time now. At one stage, the situation was such that the military started to panic about pilot numbers, and offered retention bonuses. One of the major low-cost airlines matched this with a 'golden hello' of £30k.
That sounds so far removed from today's situation that it's hard to believe it was only 3 years ago, but it was.
I know only too well that patience doesn't pay the mortgage, but it is a virtue. Things have started to look up, and there's a long way to go up from here, so be ready.
I've watched mates leaving the RAF for a long time now. At one stage, the situation was such that the military started to panic about pilot numbers, and offered retention bonuses. One of the major low-cost airlines matched this with a 'golden hello' of £30k.
That sounds so far removed from today's situation that it's hard to believe it was only 3 years ago, but it was.
I know only too well that patience doesn't pay the mortgage, but it is a virtue. Things have started to look up, and there's a long way to go up from here, so be ready.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jam Tomorrow?
I have heard all this stuff about pilot shortages
ad nauseum. I have been involved with avaiation
since the late 80's and I can tell you that there
has never been a pilot shortage.
Periodically there has been a shortage of type rated pilots
There has been, is, and will be, a huge surplus of GA guys
that sadly will never work for the airlines notwithstanding
the massive committment that they have made both financially
and in terms of sheer physical effort. There are well over 14,000
fATPL holders or above in the UK alone and only about half
of these are employed in the airlines.
Since JAA came in the cost, time, and difficulty has all increased and paradoxically the number of jobs available to newbies has shrunk as the only expanding airline sector (UK low-cost)
continues to recruit from pilots shed from the failing flag carriers
of Europe.
JAA FCL policy will continue to shrink the UK training sector as these realities continue to bite. Noboby voted for all this in the the UK but we will foot the bill...
Most flying schools will operate on this jam yesterday, jam tomorrow philosophy - just look at the guys in these schools and ask yourself why the instructors that teach you are not
employed by an airline? Its because there are too many of us.
ad nauseum. I have been involved with avaiation
since the late 80's and I can tell you that there
has never been a pilot shortage.
Periodically there has been a shortage of type rated pilots
There has been, is, and will be, a huge surplus of GA guys
that sadly will never work for the airlines notwithstanding
the massive committment that they have made both financially
and in terms of sheer physical effort. There are well over 14,000
fATPL holders or above in the UK alone and only about half
of these are employed in the airlines.
Since JAA came in the cost, time, and difficulty has all increased and paradoxically the number of jobs available to newbies has shrunk as the only expanding airline sector (UK low-cost)
continues to recruit from pilots shed from the failing flag carriers
of Europe.
JAA FCL policy will continue to shrink the UK training sector as these realities continue to bite. Noboby voted for all this in the the UK but we will foot the bill...
Most flying schools will operate on this jam yesterday, jam tomorrow philosophy - just look at the guys in these schools and ask yourself why the instructors that teach you are not
employed by an airline? Its because there are too many of us.
If you want to improve your chances of getting a job then spend the time/money/effort on getting some other skill or qualification which will look good on your c.v.
If you can speak fluent German/Spanish/French, as an example, then you are going to stand out from the crowd with all their other c.v.s. With companies expanding their operations to other parts of the world you might look quite attractive to them.
I have only picked languages as an example. With a bit of creative thinking I am sure you could think of some more examples. Just ask yourself the question, if you were an employer with XYZ company what would make you consider pilot x for an interview against pilot y given the same sort of flying background and experience.
If you can speak fluent German/Spanish/French, as an example, then you are going to stand out from the crowd with all their other c.v.s. With companies expanding their operations to other parts of the world you might look quite attractive to them.
I have only picked languages as an example. With a bit of creative thinking I am sure you could think of some more examples. Just ask yourself the question, if you were an employer with XYZ company what would make you consider pilot x for an interview against pilot y given the same sort of flying background and experience.
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't remember exactly how the CAA count the number of commercially qualified pilots in the UK, but I *think* it is based on holders of CPL/ATPL licences that have a current Class 1 medical certificate. Assumption being that if you have a Class 1 medical you intend to commit aviation at some point.
14,000 sounds familiar for the CPL/ATPL + Class 1 and 7,000 airline positions sounds familiar as well. On top of that though what about the Brits abroad that work for the likes of Singapore, Cathay, Dragonair etc etc. That must account for a few bodies as well.
14,000 sounds familiar for the CPL/ATPL + Class 1 and 7,000 airline positions sounds familiar as well. On top of that though what about the Brits abroad that work for the likes of Singapore, Cathay, Dragonair etc etc. That must account for a few bodies as well.
Plus the pilots looking for work in the other 11 JAA countries who speak fluent English.
Since 1945 there has never been and will never be a shortage of <250hr pilots.
WWW
Since 1945 there has never been and will never be a shortage of <250hr pilots.
WWW
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Inside an airplane
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fever
Maybe you guys don’t remember that if even a fever does this damage to the aviation market, we must consider the fragility of all the predictions made for the years to come.
Zeke
Zeke
