Job After 200 Hours
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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lets get back onto the topic!!
As the member who initiated this topic, I have read with some fascination the views of those in the business and not yet in it! What is troubling me is the way that our discussion is getting a little out of hand! All I really wanted to hear were incidences of pilots being hired on 200 hours- please stick to the crux of the question!!!
cheers people
cheers people
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batty
I am not surprised to hear that low hour pilots (within FR?) cope to a good standard with non precision approaches etc etc. Compare a 737-800 to a ATP or a J31? I know which one would make life easier for me if I wanted to let down!!! Luxuries like an autothrottle are often overlooked but can make a big difference to someone who is trying to get to grips while on type. Not many ATPs or J31s have an autothrottle!! LNAV/VNAV and EFIS are all tricks of the jet trade that many traditional props don't have! Just a few reasons why the transition to props can sometimes be harder then a transition to a jet for a low hour chap. This has been demonstrated in the past and I was speaking to someone about it yesterday!
I am not surprised to hear that low hour pilots (within FR?) cope to a good standard with non precision approaches etc etc. Compare a 737-800 to a ATP or a J31? I know which one would make life easier for me if I wanted to let down!!! Luxuries like an autothrottle are often overlooked but can make a big difference to someone who is trying to get to grips while on type. Not many ATPs or J31s have an autothrottle!! LNAV/VNAV and EFIS are all tricks of the jet trade that many traditional props don't have! Just a few reasons why the transition to props can sometimes be harder then a transition to a jet for a low hour chap. This has been demonstrated in the past and I was speaking to someone about it yesterday!
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Mister Geezer- hate to burst the bubble but I fly the 200 not the 800, there are many low aritime pilots on the 800 but there are also many on the 200. On the 200, in most cases no autothrottle, no alt select, no heading select, no LNAV, no VNAV, no EFIS....just alt hold and approach....... and we are flying faster....
An 800 would be wonderful....
An 800 would be wonderful....
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Modular too!
Lets not forget the guys who 'prove' themselves by self sponsoring on a modular course. The hard yakkers who juggle 2 jobs while studying get a little leverage in an interview. In my experience anyway.
Cant really comment on the low vs high experience debate but someone compared flying a 172 to 737 flying. Please remember people building experience in single engine lighties, incl. instructors, actually gain experience in 'making decisions' without a captain to turn to. Ok, so the a/c are much slower, but you do not have to be TOP GUN to fly an all EFIS, VNAV, HNAV, singing dancing jet into FAMILIAR airfields. There are various paths to the job of your dreams. Lets not knock anyone for being low/high houred, lucky, unlucky, rich/poor. Just as long as we are safe.
MAX
Cant really comment on the low vs high experience debate but someone compared flying a 172 to 737 flying. Please remember people building experience in single engine lighties, incl. instructors, actually gain experience in 'making decisions' without a captain to turn to. Ok, so the a/c are much slower, but you do not have to be TOP GUN to fly an all EFIS, VNAV, HNAV, singing dancing jet into FAMILIAR airfields. There are various paths to the job of your dreams. Lets not knock anyone for being low/high houred, lucky, unlucky, rich/poor. Just as long as we are safe.
MAX
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We all have to start somewhere.
Every one of you guys was once at 200 hours and made it with determination and hard work.
DHL seem happy with low hours according to the other thread on here. Experience and ability are totally different aspects. Anyone can eventually gain experience but not everyone has a high ability level.
I am just starting out so excuse my ignorance on the topic but I will be giving it my best shot to get that lucrative RHS one day whether I have 200 hours or 2000 hours.
Every one of you guys was once at 200 hours and made it with determination and hard work.
DHL seem happy with low hours according to the other thread on here. Experience and ability are totally different aspects. Anyone can eventually gain experience but not everyone has a high ability level.
I am just starting out so excuse my ignorance on the topic but I will be giving it my best shot to get that lucrative RHS one day whether I have 200 hours or 2000 hours.
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YAWN!!
Why has a perfectly interesting post descended into the normal slinging match about Modular vs. Integrated. I don't care which course you take, there are good and bad pilots from both systems. I know plenty of both who have found flying jobs with all sorts of hours.
As for myself, first general aviation job with 230 hours, first RHS job on heavy Turboprop with 1300.
Why has a perfectly interesting post descended into the normal slinging match about Modular vs. Integrated. I don't care which course you take, there are good and bad pilots from both systems. I know plenty of both who have found flying jobs with all sorts of hours.
As for myself, first general aviation job with 230 hours, first RHS job on heavy Turboprop with 1300.
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hey bat boy have been looking at your start date and hours and if you take into consideration ground school, sim, line trainig holiday etc that means you have been doing over 90 hours a month or more than the required duty hours in any givern week. where do you get the time to write such a long history?
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There is no intrinsic substance to the argument that a 200 hour pilot is a liability in the RHS of an airliner. Obviously, greater experience generally translates into higher safety margins, but that is why these low-hour pilots spend a great many hours flying with training captains and, later, with the more experienced line captains. By the time they are released unrestricted on the line, they will have many more than 200 hours.
It's worth pointing out that the RAF's co-pilots on C130s, VC10s, TriStars, C17s, E-3Ds, and Nimrods (and the captains on all fast jets) can have less than 200 hours on appointment, and their captains as little as 1000 hours. Their accident rate is no worse, and often considerably better, than the airlines'. It is the standard of training that has most influence on these pilots and the associated statistics.
The practicalities of the employment market mean that, just now, the airlines can and do usually ask for higher hours - it keeps their beancounters happy, and specifying higher hours and a rating is designed to attract experienced pilots from other airlines (which may have gone bust). When pilots are more difficult to come by, as was the case in '97-'01, the minimum requirements fall. It is simply a case of supply and demand.
Scroggs
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It's worth pointing out that the RAF's co-pilots on C130s, VC10s, TriStars, C17s, E-3Ds, and Nimrods (and the captains on all fast jets) can have less than 200 hours on appointment, and their captains as little as 1000 hours. Their accident rate is no worse, and often considerably better, than the airlines'. It is the standard of training that has most influence on these pilots and the associated statistics.
The practicalities of the employment market mean that, just now, the airlines can and do usually ask for higher hours - it keeps their beancounters happy, and specifying higher hours and a rating is designed to attract experienced pilots from other airlines (which may have gone bust). When pilots are more difficult to come by, as was the case in '97-'01, the minimum requirements fall. It is simply a case of supply and demand.
Scroggs
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Cathay Kid.....
Mar 2001 - Mar 2003 = 24 months,
Started with 202 hours.
1800-202=1598....1598 /24=66.58hours per month or 799 per year.......
Infact that leaves me 101 hours a year or about 2 months total time...that takes care of the ground school and inital sim.
Quite feasable when you consider who I work for!! ......
Interested in how you calculated my duty hours per week
Mar 2001 - Mar 2003 = 24 months,
Started with 202 hours.
1800-202=1598....1598 /24=66.58hours per month or 799 per year.......
Infact that leaves me 101 hours a year or about 2 months total time...that takes care of the ground school and inital sim.
Quite feasable when you consider who I work for!! ......
Interested in how you calculated my duty hours per week
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I wish there were US carriers taking on 200hr pilots in 737's. I got my FAA commercial about 1 year ago and managed to get a job flying a Cessna 206 with 250 hours, people here were surprised I landed that job considering my low time. I am now an instructor at a school in LA building twin time before I would even be considered for something like a king air. It seems that over here you need at least 1000+ TT with about 300+ multi before your cv would even be looked at if it was for anything with turbine engines or even a large piston twin.
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nick19767
You wouldn't need more than 200hrs to fly for the USN but you would have needed to enroll first and gone through the training.
Nowadays they take only the top pilots from each school and it is very tough even to get flying a KC135 you still have to graduate near the top....
"no prizes for second place"
However i agree the situation in the US is crazy if you are looking for a job....the lads in Europe have the right idea...if you can do the job then go for it....and the end of the day you can either fly the plane or not.....if not....well then too bad.
I know of 2 guys who have go hired with RyanAir with between 200-250hrs and are doing fine with no problems and i know of another guy who went from his CPL to an A300 in a matter of months....they all say they fly just like a C172....i think you just have to have good all round SA to do the job......they are doing the same job as the UAL/DAL pilots....the only difference is the pay!!!!
Nowadays they take only the top pilots from each school and it is very tough even to get flying a KC135 you still have to graduate near the top....
"no prizes for second place"
However i agree the situation in the US is crazy if you are looking for a job....the lads in Europe have the right idea...if you can do the job then go for it....and the end of the day you can either fly the plane or not.....if not....well then too bad.
I know of 2 guys who have go hired with RyanAir with between 200-250hrs and are doing fine with no problems and i know of another guy who went from his CPL to an A300 in a matter of months....they all say they fly just like a C172....i think you just have to have good all round SA to do the job......they are doing the same job as the UAL/DAL pilots....the only difference is the pay!!!!
I say there boy
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BPM,
Without in any way wanting to belittle your achievement, were your residency rights a factor in getting hired, or was it purely right place, right time?
cheers!
foggy.
Without in any way wanting to belittle your achievement, were your residency rights a factor in getting hired, or was it purely right place, right time?
cheers!
foggy.
Foggy.....
i don't feel belittled in achievement at all.... my residency rights WERE an important factor as i do live in the channel islands, but i do disagree slightly with FLY-146.....
"if you live in the channel then you're guaranteed a job with them"
Not true at all.... although you do stand a better chance.
Out of the 25 - 30 f/o's recently recruited only a handful are from down here.
I know of at least 2 people down here with all the correct licences and the little blue book who haven't been able to get jobs with us.
Also - EVEN WITH the residency rights we still have to pass the sim check, ground school, simulator, base training etc... to the same standard as everyone else.
On my course one chap unfortunately fell at the simulator stage - so they do have standards to meet.
Anyway..... i'd better get back to my few days off.
Cheers guys
BPM
i don't feel belittled in achievement at all.... my residency rights WERE an important factor as i do live in the channel islands, but i do disagree slightly with FLY-146.....
"if you live in the channel then you're guaranteed a job with them"
Not true at all.... although you do stand a better chance.
Out of the 25 - 30 f/o's recently recruited only a handful are from down here.
I know of at least 2 people down here with all the correct licences and the little blue book who haven't been able to get jobs with us.
Also - EVEN WITH the residency rights we still have to pass the sim check, ground school, simulator, base training etc... to the same standard as everyone else.
On my course one chap unfortunately fell at the simulator stage - so they do have standards to meet.
Anyway..... i'd better get back to my few days off.
Cheers guys
BPM
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At Lufthansa Cityline they take lowtimers with 180 hours. They are not JARFCL yet, but will be in may this year. At the moment they are not recruiting, but times will change.
Good luck!
Good luck!
