Recent MCC/JOC experience
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Recent MCC/JOC experience
Hi all
I've seen the older thread on MCC and JOC courses but theres no recent posts.
Can I have some feedback on the different courses people have attended? I'm a modular student and have seen various courses with prices range from £2500 to £9400. Does it really make that much difference where you go?
Who's recently got an airline Job, attended an interview or been turned down and with the benefit of hindsight would you go to the same provider?
I've seen the older thread on MCC and JOC courses but theres no recent posts.
Can I have some feedback on the different courses people have attended? I'm a modular student and have seen various courses with prices range from £2500 to £9400. Does it really make that much difference where you go?
Who's recently got an airline Job, attended an interview or been turned down and with the benefit of hindsight would you go to the same provider?
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If i were you, dont go for the cheapest. You better spend some money on this because i think it is a vital thing in your flying career. On top of this, this kind of stuff you will do when doing sim asessements when you are invited for a job interview. And go for a jet. So you can get used a bit to the speeds.
Good luck with your choice.
Good luck with your choice.
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And how did it go with Ryanair? If you don't mind me asking.
A good friend said a middle of the road one will be fine and CAE Oxford is middle of the road price wise and good on a CV
A good friend said a middle of the road one will be fine and CAE Oxford is middle of the road price wise and good on a CV
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You will think age is not a factor, but the reality is that the older you are the more likely you are to be a training risk.
Going jet for the first time aged 40 or so, is regarded by a number of employers as a risk to far.
The turbo prop route though is viable.
Simtech have a good name.
Virtual Aviation, Cambridge have an impressive set up as well with quality instruction as well.
Going jet for the first time aged 40 or so, is regarded by a number of employers as a risk to far.
The turbo prop route though is viable.
Simtech have a good name.
Virtual Aviation, Cambridge have an impressive set up as well with quality instruction as well.
de minimus non curat lex
And what Airgus is forgetting to tell you is that, you need to reach an acceptable standard on the sim ride assessment.
So if you are a hot shot, then the bare minimum MCC5 will suffice.
If however you do not fall into this rare category, then the more practice you have flying a 737 variant the better chance you will have. Think about it.
JOC is not, as yet, a regulated course; Ryanair are simply saying it is entirely up to you how you prepare for the assessment.
Not all ATOs charge a premium for MCC/JOC. Do your homework carefully, and make an informed choice based on your circumstances.
So if you are a hot shot, then the bare minimum MCC5 will suffice.
If however you do not fall into this rare category, then the more practice you have flying a 737 variant the better chance you will have. Think about it.
JOC is not, as yet, a regulated course; Ryanair are simply saying it is entirely up to you how you prepare for the assessment.
Not all ATOs charge a premium for MCC/JOC. Do your homework carefully, and make an informed choice based on your circumstances.
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Ok,
My choices are - top two need accommodation on top as I live 80+ miles away.
CAE Oxford £5200
Virtual Aviation Cambridge £5500
CRM Aviation Europe White Waltham £3100
Simtech Dublin €5500
My choices are - top two need accommodation on top as I live 80+ miles away.
CAE Oxford £5200
Virtual Aviation Cambridge £5500
CRM Aviation Europe White Waltham £3100
Simtech Dublin €5500
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I went with CRM Europe and wouldn't hesitate to go with them again. I got my first airline job soon after.
They use a generic jet simulator set-up to replicate a Citatin bizjet which in my opinion is more than enough to get used to. Remember that the point of the MCC is to build your CRM, not learning how to fly a 737 or other complex jet!
It's all well and good paying £9K to do an MCC in a 737, and you might feel a tad more comfortable getting in to your Ryanair sim assessment if the cockpit looks familiar, but if your CRM skills are useless you'll still fail!
Personally I'd save the pennies, get quality CRM instruction, and then worry about your potential interviews afterwards. What if you never get invited to a Ryanair interview and (for example) Thomas Cook come along and stick you in an Airbus sim assessment but you did your MCC in a 737? It'll be totally different!
They use a generic jet simulator set-up to replicate a Citatin bizjet which in my opinion is more than enough to get used to. Remember that the point of the MCC is to build your CRM, not learning how to fly a 737 or other complex jet!
It's all well and good paying £9K to do an MCC in a 737, and you might feel a tad more comfortable getting in to your Ryanair sim assessment if the cockpit looks familiar, but if your CRM skills are useless you'll still fail!
Personally I'd save the pennies, get quality CRM instruction, and then worry about your potential interviews afterwards. What if you never get invited to a Ryanair interview and (for example) Thomas Cook come along and stick you in an Airbus sim assessment but you did your MCC in a 737? It'll be totally different!
de minimus non curat lex
Whilst FZRA is quite correct is saying that Boeing and Airbus are different, what you must appreciate is that what is common is the inertia/momentum compared to a light ac, not to mention experiencing the power/couple.
Again he is quite correct in saying MCC/CRM forms a critical part of any airline assessment, but to have experienced previous of that size of ac all goes to help in providing a competent performance when hand flying it.
I would imagine the quality of instruction at these well known ATO is never in any doubt. The more effort you put into the course, the more you get out of it.
You will need to work harder compared to the light ac flying phase.
Demonstrate your learning curve and ENJOY it !
Again he is quite correct in saying MCC/CRM forms a critical part of any airline assessment, but to have experienced previous of that size of ac all goes to help in providing a competent performance when hand flying it.
I would imagine the quality of instruction at these well known ATO is never in any doubt. The more effort you put into the course, the more you get out of it.
You will need to work harder compared to the light ac flying phase.
Demonstrate your learning curve and ENJOY it !
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MCC/JOC or just MCC
Hi guys, question from a standard 200hr merchant.
I want to complete an MCC as soon as possible. My question is, is the combined MCC/JOC worth the extra, or is the MCC sufficient for getting a job in the business.
I can get the £ for the combined course, but don't want to unneccassirly spend the extra £ if it's of no real benefit.
I want to complete an MCC as soon as possible. My question is, is the combined MCC/JOC worth the extra, or is the MCC sufficient for getting a job in the business.
I can get the £ for the combined course, but don't want to unneccassirly spend the extra £ if it's of no real benefit.
Last edited by jeremykeano; 29th Jun 2017 at 08:24. Reason: Error in initial post
de minimus non curat lex
JK
It really depends what job you are after.
If you have aspirations to apply for Airbus/Boeing jobs, then MCC/JOC would be the preferred option.
Experience of the power/pitch couple, and the novelty of INERTIA are critical items in that all important sim ride.
If however you have set your sights on a turboprop job, the MCC5 would probably do. Having said that, the more exposure to multi crew experience the better when it comes to your CRM being assessed as a critical part of the sim ride.
Choose a MCC course where the simulator used is appropriate to your plans
It really depends what job you are after.
If you have aspirations to apply for Airbus/Boeing jobs, then MCC/JOC would be the preferred option.
Experience of the power/pitch couple, and the novelty of INERTIA are critical items in that all important sim ride.
If however you have set your sights on a turboprop job, the MCC5 would probably do. Having said that, the more exposure to multi crew experience the better when it comes to your CRM being assessed as a critical part of the sim ride.
Choose a MCC course where the simulator used is appropriate to your plans
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CRM Europe JOC/MCC
I'll be finishing my JOC/MCC course at crmeurope tomorrow. I highly recommend them! Rob and his team are fantastic and I feel my money has been well spent and at a very fair price. The quality of instruction both during ground school and sim has been excellent and the ALSIM fnpt2 is the perfect training device for the course. Complex enough to simulate system failures you'd expect on your typical medium jet but with a simple SOP that doesn't take too long to learn. This allows you to concentrate and work on the CRM and failure management side of things which are the fundamentals of the course. All the instructors are highly experienced and really go out of their way to pass on their knowledge and share their own personal experiences. With regards to the JOC. It's a one day course at crmeurope and although the instructors do their best to do as much as possible in the sim during those 4 hours, to be honest, the MCC covers everything and more. My advice would be,only do the JOC if you want to apply to an airline that requires it. Otherwise the MCC will do the job just fine.
I can't praise everyone involved here enough and highly recommend them. You will not be disappointed.
I can't praise everyone involved here enough and highly recommend them. You will not be disappointed.
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How about doing a cheap MCC course (cheap due to the use of a basic FNPT2) to focus on developing CRM skills and gain what is now a mandatory qualification for most flying jobs, then if you do get invited to say, a 737 simulator assessment, book a few hours in a 737 sim specifically to develop operational skills for the aircraft with the money you saved going for a cheaper MCC course? Doesn't that sound more sensible or am I missing something here?
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The first UK ATO to receive CAA approval with the JOC element embedded into the course.
An enhanced course for those who aspire to Airbus/Boeing employment.
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How can you say that? Where have you heard that simtech pass rate at assessment has dropped?