Ryanair current information cadet and FO work condition.
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IndiaNovember, so after interview with ryan r u able to get contract with mcginley, is that contract will tell you what are the rules and payment and your first assigned base?
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Ivan @IndiaNovember, be aware when you put your "contract" details on this forum. They can easily know who you are. I don't say that you are not allowed to do it but just be careful.
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Same contract as hundred and hundreds of others so probably not that enlightening.
I don't work for them anymore but 750h/year was a good one to plan from for an FO when I was there.
In my first year I took home €42500. Please be aware of a couple of things with this number. Firstly it is the net pay from my pay slips. It does not take into account hotac expenses, uniforms, id, medicals, travel etc etc.
Most importantly that figure is paying MINIMUM 'legal' (as defined by our dear supplied accountants) tax due to the offset of the type rating. The deal is pay all income tax in Ireland and social security/national insurance in your based country (this varies a bit from place to place). In many countries now you will be stuck paying both the employers AND employees contributions for social security as technically you are both employer and employee.
Retention is about 85% with expenses to use. It drops HEAVILY once you have no expenses left due to the above. I was expecting to retain no more than about 35-40% which can be better or worse depending on where you are based (which you have as good as no control over).
Not the worst first step into the industry but please go in with your eyes open. Have your boundaries and make it work for you. I went in with a target of leaving within two years and things have worked ok for me. Don't expect to be doing 1000h/year as an FO retaining 85% of your income forever and make sure you save when you get the funds to save because you will need them in the quieter months.
I don't work for them anymore but 750h/year was a good one to plan from for an FO when I was there.
In my first year I took home €42500. Please be aware of a couple of things with this number. Firstly it is the net pay from my pay slips. It does not take into account hotac expenses, uniforms, id, medicals, travel etc etc.
Most importantly that figure is paying MINIMUM 'legal' (as defined by our dear supplied accountants) tax due to the offset of the type rating. The deal is pay all income tax in Ireland and social security/national insurance in your based country (this varies a bit from place to place). In many countries now you will be stuck paying both the employers AND employees contributions for social security as technically you are both employer and employee.
Retention is about 85% with expenses to use. It drops HEAVILY once you have no expenses left due to the above. I was expecting to retain no more than about 35-40% which can be better or worse depending on where you are based (which you have as good as no control over).
Not the worst first step into the industry but please go in with your eyes open. Have your boundaries and make it work for you. I went in with a target of leaving within two years and things have worked ok for me. Don't expect to be doing 1000h/year as an FO retaining 85% of your income forever and make sure you save when you get the funds to save because you will need them in the quieter months.
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Thanks for all info guys,
I am trying to figure it out what will be the best for my and my family. I do have a couple of options Ryanair is one of them.
Can someone tell after all deduction of TR from tax what you can expect to take home per month as SO, FO?
Thx
I am trying to figure it out what will be the best for my and my family. I do have a couple of options Ryanair is one of them.
Can someone tell after all deduction of TR from tax what you can expect to take home per month as SO, FO?
Thx
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It depends entirely on what country you are based in. As said above, you will in general pay income tax in Ireland and social security in whichever country you are based in.
In a lot of countries they (annoyingly, but correctly) want you to pay both the employee and employer contribution towards social security. This can add up to rather a lot. In Portugal for example the employee rate is 11% and the employer rate is basically 24%. This means that you will be paying 35% for social security. This is obviously on top of income tax in Ireland which at the higher rate I believe is 41% and you also have to pay a thing called USC (universal social charge) in Ireland which is about another 5%.
On a sizable chunk of your salary then you will be paying 46% to Ireland and 35% to Portugal.
If you do 80 hours in a month and are getting a rate of €75/sbh (the highest possible on the latest contracts) less €4.5 per hour for recurrent training you will gross €5640. of this €1974 goes to Portugal (as an example) and €2594 to Ireland leaving you with €1072 for yourself.
Of course that is just a crude example. Some countries are better, some countries are worse. Unfortunately you don't normally get much choice.
In a lot of countries they (annoyingly, but correctly) want you to pay both the employee and employer contribution towards social security. This can add up to rather a lot. In Portugal for example the employee rate is 11% and the employer rate is basically 24%. This means that you will be paying 35% for social security. This is obviously on top of income tax in Ireland which at the higher rate I believe is 41% and you also have to pay a thing called USC (universal social charge) in Ireland which is about another 5%.
On a sizable chunk of your salary then you will be paying 46% to Ireland and 35% to Portugal.
If you do 80 hours in a month and are getting a rate of €75/sbh (the highest possible on the latest contracts) less €4.5 per hour for recurrent training you will gross €5640. of this €1974 goes to Portugal (as an example) and €2594 to Ireland leaving you with €1072 for yourself.
Of course that is just a crude example. Some countries are better, some countries are worse. Unfortunately you don't normally get much choice.
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Wow, i really appreciate Your time and detail explanation. 1000€ is a bit not what i would expect to be honest how is that possible? Is there anything that You can do to to make more? It is hard to belive in this numbers because as cadet you will ger 50 per SBH so You will get couple hundrets €....
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This "divided" system(tax in the country of the operator, social in the country of your base) is not a Ryanair thing alone. Quiet a lot companies HAVE to use that now, because it is a union law. You have to pay your social contribution where you live(or are based to be precise).
In return you get social security in terms of medical, child support, retirement. You don't like it, the ME is a good choice then. Don't pay anything, get nothing(except some company insurance that even often does not help you when you are on leave back in your home country).
That's that.
Usually you do not pay double - I do NOT know the portugese laws but it sounds strange to pay for one thing in 2 countries. But then again, we talk about Portugal, so everything is possible. I heard rumors about having a bad deal being based there.
I had already contracts like that with other companies, normally it works out very fine. Sometimes even nobody wants your tax, neither the country of the employer and not your homebase country. Seldom, but there are cases. Perfectly legal. Only social needs to be paid then.
The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.
Well, Ryanair is a huge company and it gets even more aircraft, of course they need lot's of people. Plus I am sure there are always pilots leaving(no surprise with more then 300 planes) searching for new adventures in the ME or in China. Or changing operators here in Europe.
In return you get social security in terms of medical, child support, retirement. You don't like it, the ME is a good choice then. Don't pay anything, get nothing(except some company insurance that even often does not help you when you are on leave back in your home country).
That's that.
Usually you do not pay double - I do NOT know the portugese laws but it sounds strange to pay for one thing in 2 countries. But then again, we talk about Portugal, so everything is possible. I heard rumors about having a bad deal being based there.
I had already contracts like that with other companies, normally it works out very fine. Sometimes even nobody wants your tax, neither the country of the employer and not your homebase country. Seldom, but there are cases. Perfectly legal. Only social needs to be paid then.
The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.
Well, Ryanair is a huge company and it gets even more aircraft, of course they need lot's of people. Plus I am sure there are always pilots leaving(no surprise with more then 300 planes) searching for new adventures in the ME or in China. Or changing operators here in Europe.
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Wow, i really appreciate Your time and detail explanation. 1000€ is a bit not what i would expect to be honest how is that possible? Is there anything that You can do to to make more? It is hard to belive in this numbers because as cadet you will ger 50 per SBH so You will get couple hundrets €....
Usually you do not pay double - I do NOT know the portugese laws but it sounds strange to pay for one thing in 2 countries. But then again, we talk about Portugal, so everything is possible. I heard rumors about having a bad deal being based there.
...
The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.
...
The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.
TO clear one thing up - the problems here come from the fact that in the above example you are NOT paying for the same thing twice anywhere. Double taxation covers that. The above shows paying INCOME related tax in Ireland and SOCIAL contributions in the based country. The only slight oddity is the USC (Universal Social Charge) which is also paid to Ireland but that is because it is not a social security contribution and is a separate income related tax in Ireland which was renamed to USC a while ago.
I also wouldn't advise anyone to make career decisions based solely on what I am saying, that would be foolish. I am just giving a realistic example of how it works.
It does vary from country to country because some will treat you as self employed and not make you pay both employee and employer contributions for social security. The issue is that the contracting deal in Ryanair forces you to set up a LTD company and then be an employee of it - so you have to stump up for both parts if the decision is made that you are an employee.
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Ok can You explain me who and what kind of proof required about social security? Company require some kind of statement from country of base? Or the country of base require statement from company?
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It's essentially irrelevant. You have to pay it. Through the LTD company set up you are told to pick an accountant out of a few 'selected' ones. They are the ones that will manage your payroll and ensure you pay it. As far as I am aware it is essentially required by Ireland since you are an employee/director of an Irish LTD company that you pay it there. However the system is that you pay social contributions in your based country and you will need to do this to get an A1 certificate to prove that you are paying it somewhere to Ireland. Having this is essentially what stops more than 1 country asking for the same payment.
I am no expert on this so do your own research. What I can say is that the figures I gave in the previous post are representative of what to possibly expect once you are properly paying tax and not using type rating expenses as a way to pay less.
I am no expert on this so do your own research. What I can say is that the figures I gave in the previous post are representative of what to possibly expect once you are properly paying tax and not using type rating expenses as a way to pay less.
If you are a UK citizen and based in the UK, all tax and social insurance is now paid in the UK as part of a "deal" with HMRC (pay it all here or we will investigate you) and expenses allowed are far lower. Retention rate is around 60% of before tax income after some time in the company.
Your agency will provide you a base assignment letter once you get your permanent base and this must go to your accountants who will hopefully advise you on what is required. You will have to apply for a certificate from your country of base to state you pay your social insurance there. I have only done this in Italy and the U.K. so can't tell you anything about anywhere else in Europe. Obviously, if you are based in your country of residence things are much simplified.
Your agency will provide you a base assignment letter once you get your permanent base and this must go to your accountants who will hopefully advise you on what is required. You will have to apply for a certificate from your country of base to state you pay your social insurance there. I have only done this in Italy and the U.K. so can't tell you anything about anywhere else in Europe. Obviously, if you are based in your country of residence things are much simplified.
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I heard on the grape vine that it's about €28000 after all taxes. After you pass 1500 hours you get a rise to €75/hr, I think this is supposed coincide with the expenses running out to help you offset the taxes you have to pay. I don't work for FR so I'm only telling you what I've pieced together from all the different things I've heard. A lot of speculation on this thread and all Ryanair salary threads for that matter. I don't understand why FR pilots won't publish what they earn for real, I can only speculate that there is some contractual clause stating that the real pay shouldn't be disclosed.
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I know that OhNoCB just wanted to demonstrate the concept and did not claim that his numbers are accurate, however I felt it would be handy to clarify the Irish income tax - please keep in mind that it's a progressive (sliding) tax, meaning the less you earn, the less percentage you pay. Minimum base is 20%, maximum is 40%. So if you are earning 75eur sbh, you fly 80h a month or 960h a year - that means your annual income will be 72000. Certain part of it is not taxed, it's called a tax credit. If you don't have any other tax credits (for example, if you're married or have children etc, you can get more tax credits), the total you will have to pay as income tax during that year is going to be €18,740.00.
The USC, which is on it's way out btw, is also on a sliding scale, so it's not strictly 5%, but it works out close to that anyway @ €3,302.00
So how does that look when we go back to our bloke in Portugal? Ireland gets 1836 euros, not 2594
now on to Portugal - as in quite a few countries social security tax amount can be determined by the self employed person itself, 32% is the very maximum you can legally contribute. The minimum rate, which covers the basics is 25% - but - here's the interesting part - as a self-employed you can apply this rate to whichever amount you like as long as it's not smaller than minimum monthly wage, which is something like 600 eur at the moment.
So instead of giving Portugal €1974 a month, there's nothing stopping you to pay just 150 euros instead - that does mean, that if you get sick, you get very little protection, so the more you contribute, the better the protection. But the point is, if you get €5640 a month you can keep up to 3654 eur to yourself, and not just 1000
The USC, which is on it's way out btw, is also on a sliding scale, so it's not strictly 5%, but it works out close to that anyway @ €3,302.00
So how does that look when we go back to our bloke in Portugal? Ireland gets 1836 euros, not 2594
now on to Portugal - as in quite a few countries social security tax amount can be determined by the self employed person itself, 32% is the very maximum you can legally contribute. The minimum rate, which covers the basics is 25% - but - here's the interesting part - as a self-employed you can apply this rate to whichever amount you like as long as it's not smaller than minimum monthly wage, which is something like 600 eur at the moment.
So instead of giving Portugal €1974 a month, there's nothing stopping you to pay just 150 euros instead - that does mean, that if you get sick, you get very little protection, so the more you contribute, the better the protection. But the point is, if you get €5640 a month you can keep up to 3654 eur to yourself, and not just 1000
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Martin, thats look much better because 1000 is just impossible in my opinion, i am happy that You mentioned that it is accountants job to help you out with situation. Just wondering if you are paying social in your country and you have international protection do you need to pay it in your base country 2nd time? Any ideas?
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Yep it is true that my example was a bleak look because of not accounting for tax free allowances, credits etc.
One thing though Matin, is that in some countries they will NOT accept you as self employed. They will determine that you are employed by your LTD company. THis means you CAN NOT pay the self employed contribution. You have to pay an employee contribution and an employer contribution yourself. This is not a pleasant situation and I can assure you that there have been many discussions with accountants and it has been them along with the authorities in the countries concerned that have decided this. Some accountants do have other opinions but as you are restricted as to which accountants you are allowed to use it can leave you a bit stuck.
One thing though Matin, is that in some countries they will NOT accept you as self employed. They will determine that you are employed by your LTD company. THis means you CAN NOT pay the self employed contribution. You have to pay an employee contribution and an employer contribution yourself. This is not a pleasant situation and I can assure you that there have been many discussions with accountants and it has been them along with the authorities in the countries concerned that have decided this. Some accountants do have other opinions but as you are restricted as to which accountants you are allowed to use it can leave you a bit stuck.
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Hey @OhNoCB ; Can you mention a few of the countries you know of which make you pay both employee and employers contribution. Would surely be one of the top priorities for someone choosing the 3 base options!!
Regards SAR
Regards SAR