Looking for a clue!
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Looking for a clue!
Dear fellow PPRUNErs,
I'm a SACAA CPL/IR holder with 220 hours, trying to find out what should I look into to get started in aviation, I love teaching and working as an instructor but unfortunately there are no opportunities at the moment, and whoever I talk to they are all like oh no we don't need an instructor for like eternity!!(How the hell do they get Instructors?) Although I'm willing to be a ground instructor even just to be around an airport and survive. And also willing to do any rating required, be it a tug rating or Instructor rating or just ratings on different airplanes (anything required).
So please some of you who have ideas let me know what else is out there except instructing, it doesn't matter I can travel worldwide since I'm single and can live in any kind of environment.
You can PM me or just leave your comments here. I would be so grateful.
Thanks in advance.
I'm a SACAA CPL/IR holder with 220 hours, trying to find out what should I look into to get started in aviation, I love teaching and working as an instructor but unfortunately there are no opportunities at the moment, and whoever I talk to they are all like oh no we don't need an instructor for like eternity!!(How the hell do they get Instructors?) Although I'm willing to be a ground instructor even just to be around an airport and survive. And also willing to do any rating required, be it a tug rating or Instructor rating or just ratings on different airplanes (anything required).
So please some of you who have ideas let me know what else is out there except instructing, it doesn't matter I can travel worldwide since I'm single and can live in any kind of environment.
You can PM me or just leave your comments here. I would be so grateful.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi,
I'm not sure but have you tried Africa? there's a lot of charter/safari kind of flights on a lot of countries, look for Wilderness Air maybe..
Networking, making new connections wil always help, maybe someday you meet someone who knows someone who has a C172 for fun flying, etc. If you can not get a fliying job go for flight dispatcher/ramp agent for a while, in that time working you can make connections and more important; be looking for a flying job whilst you earn some cash.
Susi air has rised their requirments to 750hr TT now... so even that door is closed.
The requirments everywhere are just too high for a fresh CPL/IR like us with 200h.
With that little amount of hours it's difficult, even to get a FI position. Here in Spain were we have +300 days of sun a year, it's imposibe right now.. Few years back (2007-2010/2011) it was more or less easy to find a FI job. With the downturn of economy and airlines not hiring for las 4 years, there's a new FI on each corner... there a lot of unemployed FI's. Keep looking for anything!
Cheers mate!
I'm not sure but have you tried Africa? there's a lot of charter/safari kind of flights on a lot of countries, look for Wilderness Air maybe..
Networking, making new connections wil always help, maybe someday you meet someone who knows someone who has a C172 for fun flying, etc. If you can not get a fliying job go for flight dispatcher/ramp agent for a while, in that time working you can make connections and more important; be looking for a flying job whilst you earn some cash.
Susi air has rised their requirments to 750hr TT now... so even that door is closed.
The requirments everywhere are just too high for a fresh CPL/IR like us with 200h.
With that little amount of hours it's difficult, even to get a FI position. Here in Spain were we have +300 days of sun a year, it's imposibe right now.. Few years back (2007-2010/2011) it was more or less easy to find a FI job. With the downturn of economy and airlines not hiring for las 4 years, there's a new FI on each corner... there a lot of unemployed FI's. Keep looking for anything!
Cheers mate!
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I'm not sure but have you tried Africa? there's a lot of charter/safari kind of flights on a lot of countries, look for Wilderness Air maybe..
I don't know if you have been in africa lately, but the competition has been really high for the last couple of years, and pilots have been to every corner of the continent and it's really hard to get in with low hours (why no one remembers when they had low hours and were in the same shoe as we are now!) and Wilderness air, that requires 800 hours for a non Namibian!
Thanks for your reply thou. I think ramp agent is the best way to get some connections.
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Hi LowLevel,
You're welcome, I'm here to help
.
I don't have been in Africa lately however I know someone who has been there for almost 3 years now, when the situation was better and anyone with 200 TT had a chance... now it's true they have rised the requirments but i didn't know Wilderness Air is 800 TT!!! That's insane, too high even for Africa.. well nothing you can do.
I know someone who wants to go Africa to, however with just 210 TT it's impossible he says.. same problem, high requirments. I think the only way to gothere is being a FI (if you're lucky you can get a FI job) for a season/1year and then go wit 500-700TT.
Ramp Agent it's good for a while I have classmates doing that for a short period, you can do it for example for the summer season, few months, some cash and get some connections!. While you stay there you can start to think in your next step to go/move, for example.. Try being a Ground instructor to get a FI rating after, it could be a good way.
Good luck!
You're welcome, I'm here to help
.I don't have been in Africa lately however I know someone who has been there for almost 3 years now, when the situation was better and anyone with 200 TT had a chance... now it's true they have rised the requirments but i didn't know Wilderness Air is 800 TT!!! That's insane, too high even for Africa.. well nothing you can do.
I know someone who wants to go Africa to, however with just 210 TT it's impossible he says.. same problem, high requirments. I think the only way to gothere is being a FI (if you're lucky you can get a FI job) for a season/1year and then go wit 500-700TT.
Ramp Agent it's good for a while I have classmates doing that for a short period, you can do it for example for the summer season, few months, some cash and get some connections!. While you stay there you can start to think in your next step to go/move, for example.. Try being a Ground instructor to get a FI rating after, it could be a good way.
Good luck!
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Most of us do remember when we were "low hours". The thing is you needed 700 hours to hold CPL/IR (UK) back then, and nobody got near an airline (and you would start on an old turboprop) till at least 1500 hours.
Instructing, meat bombing, glider towing, photography etc were still the only way to build experience, and it generally separated the dedicated from the others.
Instructing, meat bombing, glider towing, photography etc were still the only way to build experience, and it generally separated the dedicated from the others.
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700 hours? That's harsh!
Well we don't mind doing the same thing, matter of fact I love to do exactly all the four different kinds of flying that you mentioned, and if I could make a good living out of them I'd never ever leave these kinds of flying for airlines and such, the problem is even that is quiet hard to find.
And I must clarify that I was referring to those (whom I know lots of them) that were in the same shoe 3 years ago or something and now they forgot how does it feel to be low hour pilot!
Well we don't mind doing the same thing, matter of fact I love to do exactly all the four different kinds of flying that you mentioned, and if I could make a good living out of them I'd never ever leave these kinds of flying for airlines and such, the problem is even that is quiet hard to find.
And I must clarify that I was referring to those (whom I know lots of them) that were in the same shoe 3 years ago or something and now they forgot how does it feel to be low hour pilot!
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If there's no work out there, make your own
Me and a good mate got most of our first 500 hours instructing by making our own marketing stand, and just sitting in shopping malls, university, car boot sales, that kind of thing. All we had was a desk and a video player and a few model airplanes and a bunch of brochures, flogging trial lessons and learn-to-fly packages.
We averaged about 2 or 3 trial lessons every day, maybe one in 10 of those would go on to do a few hours flying or a PPL. After a few months we had a full weekend roster of PPL students that we'd created out of nothing. The school took us on full time shortly after that and started giving us CPL students and full time flying started to happen.
We're both flying A330s now
Me and a good mate got most of our first 500 hours instructing by making our own marketing stand, and just sitting in shopping malls, university, car boot sales, that kind of thing. All we had was a desk and a video player and a few model airplanes and a bunch of brochures, flogging trial lessons and learn-to-fly packages.
We averaged about 2 or 3 trial lessons every day, maybe one in 10 of those would go on to do a few hours flying or a PPL. After a few months we had a full weekend roster of PPL students that we'd created out of nothing. The school took us on full time shortly after that and started giving us CPL students and full time flying started to happen.
We're both flying A330s now
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Not different era at all then, it took me almost exactly 5 years of instructing and air taxi before I got my first airline job.
There's no shame at all in doing several years instructing. It's absolutely normal in australia, america etc.
The only difference between 20 years ago and now, is that the schools have brainwashed everyone into thinking they must be some kind of failure if they don't get a shiny jet straight out of school, and their only hope in that situation is pay more money for type ratings and P2F.
There's no shame at all in doing several years instructing. It's absolutely normal in australia, america etc.
The only difference between 20 years ago and now, is that the schools have brainwashed everyone into thinking they must be some kind of failure if they don't get a shiny jet straight out of school, and their only hope in that situation is pay more money for type ratings and P2F.
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Different era, go instructing now and there is a good chance in five years time you will still be instructing.
@Luke SkyToddler
Sir I really liked your idea and that is what I'm gonna do, already started looking for where I can do it to get more people attracted, any other suggestion or idea?
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Lowlevel - well since you asked, sure, here's some more thoughts on the matter
First and very importantly you need to pick a good school - one that's presentable and has decent aircraft, and preferably one that also operates twins in some kind of commercial capacity i.e. air taxi or ambulance.
There are exceptions, but generally you won't make positive impressions on your customers if you're operating out of a dusty old prefab with a single thrashed C150 and a grumpy old codger of a CFI. However you ALSO want to avoid an excessively slick and massive sausage-factory type school where there's already a million young hotshot instructors hanging around. somewhere in between is ideal.
In New Zealand for example where I'm from, there are several aero clubs that also have the regional air ambulance contract, typically these flights are done in Senecas / Chieftains etc, and their senior instructors get to do that flying as well as teaching CPL/IR stuff etc. Another school I know has a couple of Partenavias doing regular charter work for a government environment agency that needs to fly out to remote island strips. That kind of thing. What you want to avoid is somewhere that does ONLY single engine instructing, because it's that multi engine time that will be your golden ticket onwards and upwards.
But that's all in the future for you, after you've ground out a year or two in the single pistons doing trial lessons and PPL training etc.
Go talk to the school and be straight up with them, say I want to buy an instructor rating off you guys and work for you. If they are willing to employ you and give you students straight away, then that's great, if not, will they please let you do what I said in my post above, wear their uniform and use their marketing material to go out and generate your own work.
Get a professional signwriter to do you a few cardboard signs with your school logo on it and "learn to fly" in big letters. Get a table, a DVD player and some kind of portable screen, the bigger the better. Get a hold of your school's marketing video - if they don't have one then that's your next project, make one! Get a few model aeroplanes and some of those beautiful big posters of Boeing and Airbus cockpits.
Get a bunch of brochures and business cards to hand out. For every punter who signs up on the spot, there's 20 more who just want a brochure. Make sure that it's YOUR phone number on the business card, if the customer just phones the school a week later then how will they know it's your student?
If your school will go for it, it's great to have a kind of draw thing where you give away a trial lesson or an hour's flying once a month, for everyone who signs up to your mailing list. Use of mailing lists should be self explanatory, back in my day it was actually posting a personalized letter and brochure at the end of each day, I guess it's all about email now.
Then it's just a case of setting up anywhere where there's a lot of foot traffic.
- Shopping malls and markets on weekends.
- The university had a market day thing like once a month, a lot of students are up for it, most don't have the money to continue on into PPL training, but one guy loved it so much he quit his degree and did his CPL instead.
- We got a lot of trial lessons from setting up outside the local car racing track on race day, petrol heads are totally fascinated by aircraft. Put on a video of like the red bull air races or aerobatic championships or something for that one.
- If there's a county fair, then a lot of farmers are up for trial lessons, specially if they can also fly over their house and take a few pics, there's quite a high return rate for PPL training with those guys too, they're older and can afford it.
Every town is different but I'm sure you can brainstorm a few ideas yourself and learn by trial and error.
Big hint, this works MUCH better as a team of two or more, it's boring as hell sometimes sitting there on your own for a couple of hours when nobody's interested, and also allows for lunch breaks and toilet breaks of course. Also, after a few weeks as you start to actually get your own roster of students, you'll find it harder to go sit on the marketing stand, so you need to plan with your mates to do morning and afternoon shift and the other guy gets to go flying. We very quickly ended up with a gang of 5 or 6 young instructors all getting in on the act at various stages. (One was a stunning blonde, which was great for actually selling the product, but then of course she also ended up getting all the flying).
Pilot uniform is optional but you really do need to look smart and presentable, I hate epaulettes, but I got a polo shirt embroidered with the flying school logo so it still looked corporate. Remember that most people are
terrified when they do their first trial lesson, so above all you've got to appear confident and professional and like someone they can trust with their lives.
Final problem of course is paying the rent while you're doing all this stuff, if you can work in a pilot related capacity that's great, I did some work for a banner towing company at the airfield, and also just as a gofer in the hangar sweeping floors and running errands and washing planes. If you can't do that, then bar work or some other kind of night work is best so you can fly during the day. Best of all, is bar work at the local aero club where all the jet captains drink on a friday night, because that can have a really spectacular payoff
That's about all I can think of at the moment, go forth and prosper mate. Ignore all the and negativity that's talked on this website by people with vested interests, about how instructing and GA is a waste of time these days. Stick with it and the hours will flow, and you'll have the time of your young life and make a lot of good friends and great memories, and the golden phone call WILL come before you know it
First and very importantly you need to pick a good school - one that's presentable and has decent aircraft, and preferably one that also operates twins in some kind of commercial capacity i.e. air taxi or ambulance.
There are exceptions, but generally you won't make positive impressions on your customers if you're operating out of a dusty old prefab with a single thrashed C150 and a grumpy old codger of a CFI. However you ALSO want to avoid an excessively slick and massive sausage-factory type school where there's already a million young hotshot instructors hanging around. somewhere in between is ideal.
In New Zealand for example where I'm from, there are several aero clubs that also have the regional air ambulance contract, typically these flights are done in Senecas / Chieftains etc, and their senior instructors get to do that flying as well as teaching CPL/IR stuff etc. Another school I know has a couple of Partenavias doing regular charter work for a government environment agency that needs to fly out to remote island strips. That kind of thing. What you want to avoid is somewhere that does ONLY single engine instructing, because it's that multi engine time that will be your golden ticket onwards and upwards.
But that's all in the future for you, after you've ground out a year or two in the single pistons doing trial lessons and PPL training etc.
Go talk to the school and be straight up with them, say I want to buy an instructor rating off you guys and work for you. If they are willing to employ you and give you students straight away, then that's great, if not, will they please let you do what I said in my post above, wear their uniform and use their marketing material to go out and generate your own work.
Get a professional signwriter to do you a few cardboard signs with your school logo on it and "learn to fly" in big letters. Get a table, a DVD player and some kind of portable screen, the bigger the better. Get a hold of your school's marketing video - if they don't have one then that's your next project, make one! Get a few model aeroplanes and some of those beautiful big posters of Boeing and Airbus cockpits.
Get a bunch of brochures and business cards to hand out. For every punter who signs up on the spot, there's 20 more who just want a brochure. Make sure that it's YOUR phone number on the business card, if the customer just phones the school a week later then how will they know it's your student?
If your school will go for it, it's great to have a kind of draw thing where you give away a trial lesson or an hour's flying once a month, for everyone who signs up to your mailing list. Use of mailing lists should be self explanatory, back in my day it was actually posting a personalized letter and brochure at the end of each day, I guess it's all about email now.
Then it's just a case of setting up anywhere where there's a lot of foot traffic.
- Shopping malls and markets on weekends.
- The university had a market day thing like once a month, a lot of students are up for it, most don't have the money to continue on into PPL training, but one guy loved it so much he quit his degree and did his CPL instead.
- We got a lot of trial lessons from setting up outside the local car racing track on race day, petrol heads are totally fascinated by aircraft. Put on a video of like the red bull air races or aerobatic championships or something for that one.
- If there's a county fair, then a lot of farmers are up for trial lessons, specially if they can also fly over their house and take a few pics, there's quite a high return rate for PPL training with those guys too, they're older and can afford it.
Every town is different but I'm sure you can brainstorm a few ideas yourself and learn by trial and error.
Big hint, this works MUCH better as a team of two or more, it's boring as hell sometimes sitting there on your own for a couple of hours when nobody's interested, and also allows for lunch breaks and toilet breaks of course. Also, after a few weeks as you start to actually get your own roster of students, you'll find it harder to go sit on the marketing stand, so you need to plan with your mates to do morning and afternoon shift and the other guy gets to go flying. We very quickly ended up with a gang of 5 or 6 young instructors all getting in on the act at various stages. (One was a stunning blonde, which was great for actually selling the product, but then of course she also ended up getting all the flying).
Pilot uniform is optional but you really do need to look smart and presentable, I hate epaulettes, but I got a polo shirt embroidered with the flying school logo so it still looked corporate. Remember that most people are
terrified when they do their first trial lesson, so above all you've got to appear confident and professional and like someone they can trust with their lives.Final problem of course is paying the rent while you're doing all this stuff, if you can work in a pilot related capacity that's great, I did some work for a banner towing company at the airfield, and also just as a gofer in the hangar sweeping floors and running errands and washing planes. If you can't do that, then bar work or some other kind of night work is best so you can fly during the day. Best of all, is bar work at the local aero club where all the jet captains drink on a friday night, because that can have a really spectacular payoff
That's about all I can think of at the moment, go forth and prosper mate. Ignore all the
and negativity that's talked on this website by people with vested interests, about how instructing and GA is a waste of time these days. Stick with it and the hours will flow, and you'll have the time of your young life and make a lot of good friends and great memories, and the golden phone call WILL come before you know it
