Time to say goodbye!!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Time to say goodbye!!
Hello fellowpilots,
Yes the title is saying it all. I'm throwing the towel in the ring. I give up. Mentally it is over. When i started my professionally flying career several years ago, i was always motivated and wanted to grow in this field. I was really eager to do so. I always had the idea to progress in my career and build my private life around it. Big mistake!!! After 3000h under the belt, 2500h on bizzjet, flown worldwide and looking for 2.5 years for another job, i was shocked that no one, but no one had the slightest interest in me. Ow yes you can call me naieve, no problem with that. Well, i must admit i could fly for wizz, but then again, i'm not THAT naieve, flying for peanuts. Might as well lower my trousers.
. Than there was the aer lingus "inconvenience". First they called me for an interview date, then they changed their mind because they were looking for 'commercial jet experience" pilots. Helloooooooooo, what was i doing the last 6 years????
Ok, flying a bizz jet rather than an airliner. Than, no typerating no job. Investing in people is an ugly expression in aviation. And there is this protectionism where Germany and France are the champions (also other countries). If you don't speak German (or other language), 
. Beside this, on my current job, they are calling me every week on my off days, asking politely if i can work on my off days. When you say: "no because i have plans for today", their tone is not so friendly anymore and they force you to come. Than, we pilots are always the one to blame on. Mr CEO is always pointing his threats towards pilots, not the clerks, not the IT guys, not the ops, no no, always the pilots. Like we are the aiming point of his long riffle. And i'm not talking only about my company.
My conclusion: aviation is rotten like hell and another monkey can do my job. Now it is me to say: you to this industry. I finally found the courage to switch industry and job. Got another job which gives me a much more stabile private life and where you get treated like a person. O yes, i will miss flying the jet but not the crap around it. O yes, salary is less but quality of life will be much better.
I also would like to thank some people here who gave me advice or help. I hope you will be better. But for me: it stops.
Thank you all and good luck.
Yes the title is saying it all. I'm throwing the towel in the ring. I give up. Mentally it is over. When i started my professionally flying career several years ago, i was always motivated and wanted to grow in this field. I was really eager to do so. I always had the idea to progress in my career and build my private life around it. Big mistake!!! After 3000h under the belt, 2500h on bizzjet, flown worldwide and looking for 2.5 years for another job, i was shocked that no one, but no one had the slightest interest in me. Ow yes you can call me naieve, no problem with that. Well, i must admit i could fly for wizz, but then again, i'm not THAT naieve, flying for peanuts. Might as well lower my trousers.
. Than there was the aer lingus "inconvenience". First they called me for an interview date, then they changed their mind because they were looking for 'commercial jet experience" pilots. Helloooooooooo, what was i doing the last 6 years???? Ok, flying a bizz jet rather than an airliner. Than, no typerating no job. Investing in people is an ugly expression in aviation. And there is this protectionism where Germany and France are the champions (also other countries). If you don't speak German (or other language), . Beside this, on my current job, they are calling me every week on my off days, asking politely if i can work on my off days. When you say: "no because i have plans for today", their tone is not so friendly anymore and they force you to come. Than, we pilots are always the one to blame on. Mr CEO is always pointing his threats towards pilots, not the clerks, not the IT guys, not the ops, no no, always the pilots. Like we are the aiming point of his long riffle. And i'm not talking only about my company.My conclusion: aviation is rotten like hell and another monkey can do my job. Now it is me to say:
you to this industry. I finally found the courage to switch industry and job. Got another job which gives me a much more stabile private life and where you get treated like a person. O yes, i will miss flying the jet but not the crap around it. O yes, salary is less but quality of life will be much better.I also would like to thank some people here who gave me advice or help. I hope you will be better. But for me: it stops.
Thank you all and good luck.
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Woody - Nice job man, its always nice to say your goodbyes especially if you have got some help from the community.
I have dreamt of leaving aviation for years but never actually took the plunge, your so right we get treated like dirt, IMHO Aviation has got to be the worst industry in the world.
Its because flying is fun, its cool to fly right! sure it is, but when you combine that with employment and people suddenly its starts to become a bitch fight between everyone.
Employers think they can treat us like dirt because after all you are flying the shinny jet and they have a queue of people waiting to take your place if you don't do as they say!
Pilots are in great numbers these days and its a race to the bottom! anything he/she can do I can do it cheaper is the attitude.
I am sure you are aware that for new CPL holders they have to pay in excess of 70,000 just to get a job these days, its all wrong but this is just how its done now.
I have been doing this for 13 long years, I remember I was so passionate about aviation when I first started out! nothing could break me down I was too positive, but reality soon set in.
I would love to leave and do something new, but I am scared, I feel like I invested too much time and effort in to this awful career to just walk away, I keep hoping that there will come a day that I could be happy, but I know it will never come.
So well done, at least you don't have to worry, and god there's a hell of lot of that in aviation!
I have dreamt of leaving aviation for years but never actually took the plunge, your so right we get treated like dirt, IMHO Aviation has got to be the worst industry in the world.
Its because flying is fun, its cool to fly right! sure it is, but when you combine that with employment and people suddenly its starts to become a bitch fight between everyone.
Employers think they can treat us like dirt because after all you are flying the shinny jet and they have a queue of people waiting to take your place if you don't do as they say!
Pilots are in great numbers these days and its a race to the bottom! anything he/she can do I can do it cheaper is the attitude.
I am sure you are aware that for new CPL holders they have to pay in excess of 70,000 just to get a job these days, its all wrong but this is just how its done now.
I have been doing this for 13 long years, I remember I was so passionate about aviation when I first started out! nothing could break me down I was too positive, but reality soon set in.
I would love to leave and do something new, but I am scared, I feel like I invested too much time and effort in to this awful career to just walk away, I keep hoping that there will come a day that I could be happy, but I know it will never come.
So well done, at least you don't have to worry, and god there's a hell of lot of that in aviation!
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On the contrary, I think this is absolutely the correct place. It's "another view" of how the industry "can" be. Guys coming into the industry need to be aware of all aspects of it, the bad as well as the good.
Myself and lots of our guys are all based away from home, so we get to see wives/girlfriends/kids a couple of days a week for example. I'm not complaining about it because luckily I love my job, and ultimately it's the choice I make. And if I didn't like it that much, then I would have to consider my options, just like Woody has. There's no right or wrong, and I'm not sure how the above poster can say he thinks Woody has made a mistake???? You are not in Woody's shoes.
Posts like Woody's do indeed provide a (sometimes) much needed reality check, a counterbalance to the "dream at any cost". Just a thought.
Good luck Woody in your new career.
Myself and lots of our guys are all based away from home, so we get to see wives/girlfriends/kids a couple of days a week for example. I'm not complaining about it because luckily I love my job, and ultimately it's the choice I make. And if I didn't like it that much, then I would have to consider my options, just like Woody has. There's no right or wrong, and I'm not sure how the above poster can say he thinks Woody has made a mistake???? You are not in Woody's shoes.
Posts like Woody's do indeed provide a (sometimes) much needed reality check, a counterbalance to the "dream at any cost". Just a thought.
Good luck Woody in your new career.
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As someone who has been alternating careers since 2009 I can tell you that you will not find total happiness doing anything else in life once you have flown. I totally agree that the aviation industry is rotten to the core and that most airline management are inefficient and spineless. However, if you can find a part time or seasonal flying job and somehow combine that with your new career you'll be much happier. I resigned from my last job due to location and having grown an unhealthy hatred of the environment I was operating in. I went back to my old career but then was lucky to get offered a part-time/seasonal flying job that suits my freelancing career outside of aviation (let's hope it actually starts!). This way, the money I make when I'm not flying is excellent. I'm exposed to less of the daily the airline industry throws at you and I fly just enough to keep me content. Good luck.
After becoming fed up with biz jet flying, Woody decided that with 3000hrs under his belt he could have the pick of the worlds airlines who would fall over themselves to offer him a job. Sadly, this didn't happen so he's now throwing his toys out of the pram.
Sorry to be blunt mate, that's exactly how I read your post.
Sorry to be blunt mate, that's exactly how I read your post.
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I once flew 4 years for an operator RHS Boeing worldwide before being made redundant. Soon after they advertised for crew and I was shocked to discover I did not qualify to apply for my old job. I continued to sign on for £71 a week, mortgage hanging in the balance, whilst somebody else took my job.
I'm afraid that even when you think you've "made it", the crap fails to cease. The best advice in this thread is to go part time and get a life outside this joke industry. And, tag onto somebody else's travel concessions, etc.
I'm afraid that even when you think you've "made it", the crap fails to cease. The best advice in this thread is to go part time and get a life outside this joke industry. And, tag onto somebody else's travel concessions, etc.
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Woody, good on you mate for realizing when enough was enough. I have (much to the dismay of others on this site) suggested that aviation is not for everyone. You can hold your head high that you stuck to your morals and didn't add to the decline of the industry by "investing" deeper and deeper financially and mentally. Good luck in your new life!
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I once flew 4 years for an operator RHS Boeing worldwide before being made redundant. Soon after they advertised for crew and I was shocked to discover I did not qualify to apply for my old job. I continued to sign on for £71 a week, mortgage hanging in the balance, whilst somebody else took my job.
I'm afraid that even when you think you've "made it", the crap fails to cease. The best advice in this thread is to go part time and get a life outside this joke industry. And, tag onto somebody else's travel concessions, etc.
I'm afraid that even when you think you've "made it", the crap fails to cease. The best advice in this thread is to go part time and get a life outside this joke industry. And, tag onto somebody else's travel concessions, etc.
How common is this? Certainly scary for someone just starting out their PPL!
Woody - good for you and I hope that things work out for you in your next career move. It takes a lot of time, sweat, cash and sacrifice to get where you are now and even more guts to throw in the towel at this stage. But despite the vast majority of us being obsessed with aviation, sometimes there really IS more to life.....
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Ditto and that life can be extremely rewarding if you find the right career. What I do outside of aviation is unique and so the money is excellent. This makes up for the financial rape that occurs when I'm flying. Unfortunately, my flying career has to be subsidised if I want to live a good life in the country I call home! I guess that's what happens when pilot jobs are sold to the lowest bidders.
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I have to admit, the total package on offer in aviation is not good enough to have a good life.
And the option to be able to fly part-time, is certainly high on my agenda too.
Now obliviously there are some people who will knock this attitude, either the ones who already belong to the golden age, who have already taken all the golden eggs in their own nest, or the ones arriving the industry with to much of mummies and daddies money than sense!
I have finally come to this conclusion, that part time, 50%, would satisfy my ego within aviation and flying, the 50% I loose in pay is negligent. Equals a drop in the ocean, compared to the money I can make and still make with my old business.
I have seen plenty guys sitting holed up in some place, 6 -7 - 10 -14 days, working, sleeping, and waiting for the time to get home and spend 2 -3 -4 -days with their wife, girlfriend, children, and back again.
Commuting thousands of miles, spending thousands on air travel tickets to get a few moments, a few hours extra at home, from already the meager money they are paid.
Yes it's true, as some will say, it's the market value, well I tell you one thing, the market value sucks, and it is a disgrace, and it will eventually end up costing peoples lives, as people are humans, with human needs.
They will push themselves to limits, lack of sleep, lack of money, lack of proper rest, lack of a proper diet - when can you get a proper meal during a 4 sector day of 12 - 14 hours!
The lack of respect by management, crewing, you should be happy you can sit in an airplane, seriously some guys are completely Zombies in this industry, and lack serious knowledge of what good quality of life means.
It has to be a selfish ego trip, as if some of you think this big jet is the extension of your penises!
Yes it can be a great job, but the way it is at the moment, a big percentage of the jobs out there, are not fit for purpose. They encourage tax evasion / fraud, they pay you not much above minimum wage, but of course, I am so happy, I am a little man with a big Jet, living the dream, even if they treat me like an idiot.
In many ways, you have to question the intelligence of many of these guys, including myself, who are willing to accept such degrading conditions and terms, because that's what it is.
We are monkeys, being paid peanuts! I guess people who enter aviation, don't mind being violated!
And the option to be able to fly part-time, is certainly high on my agenda too.
Now obliviously there are some people who will knock this attitude, either the ones who already belong to the golden age, who have already taken all the golden eggs in their own nest, or the ones arriving the industry with to much of mummies and daddies money than sense!
I have finally come to this conclusion, that part time, 50%, would satisfy my ego within aviation and flying, the 50% I loose in pay is negligent. Equals a drop in the ocean, compared to the money I can make and still make with my old business.
I have seen plenty guys sitting holed up in some place, 6 -7 - 10 -14 days, working, sleeping, and waiting for the time to get home and spend 2 -3 -4 -days with their wife, girlfriend, children, and back again.
Commuting thousands of miles, spending thousands on air travel tickets to get a few moments, a few hours extra at home, from already the meager money they are paid.
Yes it's true, as some will say, it's the market value, well I tell you one thing, the market value sucks, and it is a disgrace, and it will eventually end up costing peoples lives, as people are humans, with human needs.
They will push themselves to limits, lack of sleep, lack of money, lack of proper rest, lack of a proper diet - when can you get a proper meal during a 4 sector day of 12 - 14 hours!
The lack of respect by management, crewing, you should be happy you can sit in an airplane, seriously some guys are completely Zombies in this industry, and lack serious knowledge of what good quality of life means.
It has to be a selfish ego trip, as if some of you think this big jet is the extension of your penises!
Yes it can be a great job, but the way it is at the moment, a big percentage of the jobs out there, are not fit for purpose. They encourage tax evasion / fraud, they pay you not much above minimum wage, but of course, I am so happy, I am a little man with a big Jet, living the dream, even if they treat me like an idiot.
In many ways, you have to question the intelligence of many of these guys, including myself, who are willing to accept such degrading conditions and terms, because that's what it is.
We are monkeys, being paid peanuts! I guess people who enter aviation, don't mind being violated!
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Truckflyer
You've moaned from the very start. Resign from aviation and spare us. Next time you make a career change, properly research the pay and conditions. Next time you choose to accept a job a long way from home, consider the effect on family life before you sign up.
It's almost understandable when an 18 year old ignores due diligence because of the confidence of youth, but at your age, you really should have known better.
You've moaned from the very start. Resign from aviation and spare us. Next time you make a career change, properly research the pay and conditions. Next time you choose to accept a job a long way from home, consider the effect on family life before you sign up.
It's almost understandable when an 18 year old ignores due diligence because of the confidence of youth, but at your age, you really should have known better.
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Artie has a point.
This particular hamster wheel was spun about a year ago on these very forums. Clearly things haven't improved since then?
This particular hamster wheel was spun about a year ago on these very forums. Clearly things haven't improved since then?
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Woody,
I think you threw in the towel quite too early. With your hours and an improving industry in Europe you should be well in the run for a top flying job. I mean it.
If you send operators your CV but do not get the feedback you hope you would get, then it may be time to question your tactics, i.e. well-written CV and/or cover letter, right email address, gone their in person, continuously sending updates?
Remember, the work will never stop in this career, if you want to keep moving up the ranks and types.
Good luck! Reconsider your decision!
I think you threw in the towel quite too early. With your hours and an improving industry in Europe you should be well in the run for a top flying job. I mean it.
If you send operators your CV but do not get the feedback you hope you would get, then it may be time to question your tactics, i.e. well-written CV and/or cover letter, right email address, gone their in person, continuously sending updates?
Remember, the work will never stop in this career, if you want to keep moving up the ranks and types.
Good luck! Reconsider your decision!