Newbie and wannabe pilot help

[londonboi1985]

hello all

i am knew to the forum so please be nice

basically i am 27 years old and currently live in london and work on the railways.

i have always wanted to become a commercial pilot since i was at school however as i was young and stupid i didnt really make the grades needed.

I am now thinking of a career change and going from railways to aviation before its to late.

Whats the best course of action for me to finally get the job i always wanted to do in my current situation.
I am currently in full time employment and my salary is pretty good to be honest so i would not really want to leave my current job at present until i knew i had something secure under my wing (excuse the punn)

is there a way for me to train to fly that aint going to rely on me having to get a bank loan etc and maintain my current employment or do i need to bite the bullet.

any help i would appreciate

[cefey]

Start flying at your local club, build hours (do it as hobby). When the time is right - get your CPL/IR and try to land a job.

[schweizer2]

Start off by getting the class 1 medical out of the way
and then as the above post.

[benjaavpilot]

steps to wings

Hi Londonboi1985:

• Meet the basic requirements to be a commercial pilot: be over the age of 18, read, write and speak English, be in good physical condition and have a bachelor's degree in any subject (major airlines prefer to hire pilots with a four-year degree).
  
  
• 2 Attend flight school or aviation college. To become a commercial pilot, you must be well educated in the field of aviation.
  
  
• 3 Get a private pilot license issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Log in at least 250 hours flight time (many commercial pilots have logged thousands of hours of flight time before securing a job at a major airline).
  
  
• 4 Obtain all the necessary certificates required to be a commercial pilot. These include a medical certificate, commercial pilot certificate and rating (depending on the type of aircraft you wish to fly) and an airline transport pilot certificate (ATP) for flying internationally.
  
  
• 5 Pass a required physical examination as well as a written examination for the rating you are pursuing. Pass a FAA-required physical exam each year as well as an annual company physical once you have become a commercial pilot.
  
  
• 6 Apply to major airlines to secure a commercial pilot job. This is a highly competitive field and many qualified individuals never become a commercial pilot.
  
  

Good Luck,
Cheers

[mad_jock]

The above is the FAA way of doing things ignore it boi.

As you in a well payed job which you will dream about the working conditions and salary once you become a pilot.

You don't want the full time method because it will just cost you a fortune in lost wages.

1. Go and book a class 1 medical at Gatwick.

Welcome to the UK Civil Aviation Authority

2. Get your PPL you can do this by going on an intensive course or do it in your time off. Now the longer you leave this the longer it will take for you to be able to start the ATPL theory which you require for sitting the IR and CPL flight tests.

3. Enroll in one of the distance learning schools. There are plenty about a Fav on here is Bristol but you also have Oxford CATS and a few others. They are all pretty much of a muchness these days so choose one which is the cheapest taking into account travel and accom for the residential bit of the course. You will need to do a residential part and also go for exams at one of the test centers.

4. While studying for ATPLs you will need to build your time up to 150 hours try and get as much PIC time as possible also you need to have done a Night rating and also fit in a multi engine piston rating. Night rating get ASAP when its dark after PPL it can be a right pain getting that one in. It maybe worth doing 2 weeks in Florida hour building and get done there.

Then come back here and ask about CPL and IR schools you need to do both courses and two flight tests and to be honest its when you start paying out the bulk of the cash there is also a time limit from when you finish the ATPL exams. Budget about £25k for this stage.

There is a document on the Caa website called CAP 804 and that tells you want you need for all the different sections.

[portos8]

As stated by Mad Jock plus maybe;


Option is too do the PPL intensively in Europe in your summer holiday. Try to find a course where you can do the theory for PPL distance learning. When you get there you can start the practical and PPL exams straight away. This saves you time on the ground. Then the PPL can be done in 5-6 weeks with decent weather.

Back at home start the ATPL distance learning (Bristol.gs is a good one) and buy a participation in a plane to do your hour building in. I think that if you ad all the costs of a quick trip to the US together (and apllying for a FAA PPL, time on the ground, transport, accommodation etc) you might be cheaper off flying locally.

Then when you pass the ATPL subjects take 2 months off to do the ME/IR + CPL course. There are cheap options in Greece, Spain and Poland. You can do the MEP + ME/IR + CPL in some of these places for less than €15.000
All of these places are EASA so you can do your training there and go with the paperwork to the UK authourities who will issue the ratings and license.

Expect all this to take more or less 2,5 years. In the meantime build a network and try to get your first job through the people you have met while training.

All along you can keep working in your regular job.

Good luck!

[mad_jock]

The trick is to do your training without borrowing money.

And timing is quite important.

You have various time limits as soon as you sit your first set of ATPL's exams. You want to come out the system on an up in recruiting currently its utter pants.

You might though want to have a look at CTC and see if that fits in with your life style. Also the other tagged schemes if you can afford them.

Also as well have a think if your interested in instructing and build that into your plan. If you really are not interested don't do it. The training industry is awash with pilots who have little or no interest in the students and are just doing it for the hours. If you have an interest and get job statisfaction out of seeing people learn and develop go for it. Then think about delaying the IR until you have some instruction hours under your belt. I am told it makes the IR quite a bit easier and also delays the cost of the IR. But it does cost you for the FI rating an additional 7k.

personally I would say pay the extra and do your commercial training and IR in the UK. There is quite a bit of snobbish ideas about where you trained some of them are justified some are not and there are more than enough UK trained pilots to fill all the positions going.

[box]

Guys. Are you serious? And then? He'll be unemployed! Go to the Oxford website. Do MPL. If you're good and pass everything the first time, you may get a job at easyjet. Maybe. Ahh. Give Balpa a call and ask them what they think of becoming a pilot in todays world

[portos8]

Do MPL. If you're good and pass everything the first time, you may get a job at easyjet. Maybe. Ahh. Give Balpa a call and ask them what they think of becoming a pilot in todays world

MPL = Putting your eggs in one basket.

The MPL is so specific, it is not funny. Yes, ideal when you KNOW you will have a job at the end, BUT you will only find that out at the end of the trajectory.

CPL/IR is oldfashioned but it also helps you spread your risk and gives you a lot more choice at the end of your training to choose a strategy that will be most succesfull in getting a job.

[mad_jock]

You can't do a MPL under EASA unless you already on a tagged scheme and going into an airline.

[londonboi1985]

lol do you know what its actually easyjet i want to fly for lol

so all in all whats the expense going to be roughly so i can start working things out

[EZY_FR]

Whilst it is a long shot, it wouldn't hurt to apply for BA FPP when/if it reopens. Check out British Airways Future Pilot Programme

[Pull what]

A lot of good advice but first things first. First of all get yourself a PPL and you will have some idea of how you are going to progress in the flying training environment. Time to first solo and the ability to be able to plan an execute a good practice forced landing can, and I emphasise can, be good indicator of your ability to learn new tasks quickly which is essential when you are paying for your own training.

Not everyone, even with a PPL, has the aptitude to be a professional airline pilot. I see guys in the simulator all the time who I think would struggle with an airline sim session as part of their interview as they just do not have the natural aptitude to deal with high workload situations.

This is the best link for advice

SYWTBAP - GAPAN

I would recommend that you pay the £155 for a GAPAN aptitude test before committing to any professional course.

You should also consider though that a pilots licence can help with non flying related careers. I trained a guy once who was a train driver and eventually got a commercial licence and although he never got a flying job it undoubtedly put him ahead of other candidates for a job on Eurostar where he is now a senior driving instructor with a very high salary!

[fantom]

Marry someone who is very rich.

[stuckgear]

Marry someone who is very rich.

if not then marry someone who's daddy owns an airline.

the big question here is to ask yourself and answer perhaps honestly, why do you want to become a pilot ?

no offence, but the industry is in the tank right right now and here in Europe it'll be staying that way for at least 5 more years.. T&C's are on the slide every day, there is little in the way of job security and the benefits these days are practically non-exsistant.

[EZY_FR]

I think the only secure way of getting an airline job is through one of these integrated schemes, e.g. Flybe Wings, BA FPP, etc. Don't be fooled by all the hype surrounding CTC, you will likely(and this is at a push when I say this) end up with easyjet flexicrew, which is something you DON'T WANT. The fleck crew has been discussed a lot in these forums so if you perform a search I am sure you will find invaluable information, as well as all the information regarding CTC).
If you want to avoid taking out a loan from BBVA to cover the costs of training then the only route at present(apart from financing it yourself for the next few years) is to apply for the BA FPP scheme.More info can be found by reading the link that I provided in my last post. This scheme is extremely competitive however, so don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Another thing I should point out though is that should you choose to go down the modular route, you should keep in mind that apparently most Airlines prefer Integrated students, although I'm still not convinced by that. Good luck with it all, I'm hoping to get into this career as soon as humanely possible.

[taxistaxing]

Interesting thread.

OP, you're in a similar position to me, looking to train while working full time (though I'm further down the route than you). The only way you can realistically do this is the 'modular' route, as outlined above. An integrated scheme is 15-18 months full time, so not an option while keeping your job.

As noted above a tagged integrated scheme is proabably the best route straight to an airliner cockpit, but only if you
a. are genuinely on a tagged scheme where you have been selected by an airline (or CTC wings) , and
b. have the funding!


The fact is you're unlikley to get into an airline directly out of modular training (Ryanair are the only major airline taking modular people at the moment). You will probably have to build experience in other ways, be that instructing or flying in GA. The pay in these jobs isn't great so you need to factor that into your budgeting and planning.

This is the route I am following. Just don't underestimate the level of cash, commitment and dedication you will need at every stage - espescially when you're juggling full time work with training.

Budget around £45 - 50k to get from zero to fATPL, and probably more on top to either get an instructor's rating or pay for a type rating if you're lucky enough to get a job straight away!

apparently most Airlines prefer Integrated students

If you're on a tagged scheme yes. The jury is out on whether there's any benefit to going integrated if you're untagged (see FANS' other thread on this). If you're following the modular route you would typically build your experience by bush flying or instructing before applying to airlines, so the above statement isn't really comparing apples with apples.