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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

Old 26th Feb 2017, 13:59
  #3501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
TheTypicalBrit,

It's not a case of the cadet applying, it's a somewhat headhunting arrangement. CTC Aviation put forward the names of certain cadets to BA whom then invite them to Waterside for BA's own selection event.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 14:21
  #3502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cornwall
Age: 29
Posts: 203
George, in regards to your point about this only being eligible to cadets currently enrolled in ground school, does this mean that if I hypothetically start a whitetail course in a month's time, then I wouldn't have this opportunity?
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 14:30
  #3503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
What can be said is as far as BA are concerned there are a load of DEPs waiting in line (in and outside the pool) and the CEO, Alex Cruz is a great believer in cutting costs. FPP was great while it lasted ( for both the individuals and to some extent the corporate image), but when you consider where BA has gone with the likes of catering you'll perhaps see why the aim will be to spend as little on pilot recruitment as possible. Makes sense to me to look at the sort of scheme gbotley suggested if you want to recruit complete newbies, rather than go through the expense of screening and interviewing applicants with little or no proven flying/aviation background.

'If FPP has gone it is a shame though.......
Say it ain't so! Ah, dreams well and truly shattered.

I suspect with this tie-up with CTC it does look like that BA FPP is pretty much finished.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 14:36
  #3504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
Is this a permanent arrangement for BA then? Or more of a stop-gap to tide them over the next X months/years?

Sounds like an excellent opportunity for a few Whitetail cadets to get a job without the whole self-sponsored type rating & Flexicrew rubbish (I presume?)

Another nail in the coffin for anyone unwilling or unable to pay 100,000+ for their training.......

Perhaps what's most striking it that BA are no longer seeking the best available cadets, only the best out of a very select pool. Still a very high standard I'm sure, but very few companies outside of aviation would do that.

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 30th Apr 2017 at 17:16.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 15:07
  #3505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 213
Well "why should we pay when people are queuing up to pay for themselves" is likely the attitude.

I do often wish we could all get together and agree to not pay anything (i'll keep dreaming lol) ... and watch how all the airlines start paying for us instead. Only in this industry can they get away with the status quo, we do ourselves no favours.
Join the railway, as I have. You'll find no-one paying for training here, despite the fact that the training I'm going through costs more than CTC. Better pension too.

Perhaps what's most striking it that BA are no longer seeking the best available cadets, only the best out of a very select pool. Still a very high standard I'm sure, but very few companies outside of aviation would do that.
Spot on. There just isn't the political will to do anything about it unfortunately. You'd think BALPA would be all over it like a rash, sadly not.

Sad to see that the FPP has been killed off it seems, not totally surprised since Alex Cruz was brought in to cut costs. Looks like it's over to Easyjet to see what they can come up with, not exactly getting my hopes up for you folks though...

At my place, if someone turned up offering to pay for their own training, they'd get laughed out the door. Management want only the best and they are very, very clear about it.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 15:07
  #3506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 92
CTC will be loving it, a great marketing tool being "sole-supplier" to BA, although the majority will still end up on said Flexicrew contracts.
I believe from a certain manager that this is also likely to be a flexicrew like contract. It will give BA the ability to address seasonality issues.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 16:14
  #3507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Bear in mind despite all the above AFAIK there's been no actual official announcement that the "old" FPP scheme has been killed, though like others I think it is/was only a matter of time in the current climate.

OTOH the company (like many) have a history of not announcing what could be construed as bad or negative news and might just want to let FPP quietly slide away.

Be interesting to see what if anything get's announced officially by CTC and/or BA in the near future.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 16:34
  #3508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 25
Posts: 218
FlyVeryHigh,

Correct. Anyone in Ground School can be accepted. To date 6 have attended Waterside. Those 6 are still awaiting the news on the outcome.

I can't comment on this flexicrew stuff though. I'm only saying what has been officially said.

Those I know who have attended waterside had very high Ground School results in the 90s.
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Old 26th Feb 2017, 17:25
  #3509 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 287
If it is akin to the easyJet flexicrew arrangement it will be interesting to see how management get it past the BA CC.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 02:35
  #3510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
Posts: 12
I've got a question. BA FPP used to admit about 100+ applications, CTC has about 220 graduates every year, how will they find similar numbers from that pool?

Guess the only reasoning I can think of is that they are intaking nowhere near the same number.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 07:38
  #3511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fleet/Gunnedah New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 123
I don't think FPP will ever be announced as being scrapped, it'll just drift into distant memory like a lot of things have at BA, they're generally nicknamed "Enhancements". BA has and will simply make a fanfare that they recruit from CTC Whitetail.

As for recruitment numbers, I imagine there's enough DEP recruits that there isn't a great need to rely on cadet pilots. Remember, BA does and continue to cut costs drastically in all areas of the business, the airline has gone through massive change since FPP launched.

But I really hope that the flexicrew rumour remains a rumour, it'd be shameful of the flag carrier to drop to that level and I hope BALPA would get involved, but the ongoing mixed fleet dispute should tell you enough about how the airline is willing to treat it's staff. BA's glamour as the flag carrier is slowly seeping away, they're just another airline. Awfully sad but true.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 07:51
  #3512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I think a few of us know that if a manager at BA has a pet plan they drop it into unofficial discussion in order to test the temperature of the water and start rumour and possibly dissent running.

I hope for one the BACC and membership would put an end to any flexicrew plans PDQ, then again there is the argument that if somebody who is not a member of BALPA wants to negotiate their own contract BALPA can't intervene....I think BALPA has in theory more leverage once people are on the master seniority list.

I'd also commend the comments planesandthings made about T&Cs and the example of mixed fleet. If BA can get away with low T&Cs they will, regardless of tradition/flag carrier etc
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 11:24
  #3513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by DutchC View Post
I've got a question. BA FPP used to admit about 100+ applications, CTC has about 220 graduates every year, how will they find similar numbers from that pool.
FPP was only expected to run until 2016 so I guess that they recruited enough cadets to meet their needs. It also ran at OAA and FTE so they might have some sort of recruitment links with BA still.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 11:32
  #3514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Below transition level
Posts: 279
The FPP was always completely managed by CTC/APL, this was regardless of whether you trained at FTE/CTC/CAE.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 11:33
  #3515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fleet/Gunnedah New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 123
BA Cityflyer

Worth mentioning though that although BA FPP may now drift into the distant memory. BA Cityflyer has been recruiting over the last few years through an MPL scheme, mostly through FTE Jerez but there have been opportunities through Kura + CTC for modular and experienced airline pilots alike.
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Old 27th Feb 2017, 18:37
  #3516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
No big announcement from either CTC or BA yet.

Also, Pilots Job Network now says FPP may return in 2018 so maybe this Whitetail recruitment is less of a permanent arrangement and more of a stop gap?

Last edited by ManUtd1999; 3rd May 2017 at 20:10. Reason: Added info
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 06:21
  #3517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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FPP expected to resume early to mid 2018. No cadet recruitment likely for 2017. Expected to be a shift from ATPL to MPL. Training will be completed with either CTC, FTE or OAA. Visit; - PilotJobsNetwork

How accurate/In The Know are they usually?
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 09:40
  #3518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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That was the rumour doing the rounds until the CTC careers event. Likely hasn't been updated since.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 11:34
  #3519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Yup, you're right, was updated 13th Feb IIRC.

Oh well, that's a shame. It would be nice if BA actually came out and said that FPP was over, or at least a message on PPRuNe, as opposed to vague statements. But as others have mentioned on here, that's unlikely.

However, thanks very much to everyone on here who's provided updates! Despite the gutting news it has been much appreciated.
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Old 28th Feb 2017, 13:23
  #3520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by DutchC View Post
It would be nice if BA actually came out and said that FPP was over, or at least a message on PPRuNe
Really?

Do Real Madrid post on some random football forum to announce they've signed a player?
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