Cabin crew to Pilot? Will it work?
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Following what poose said, Yes a good credit rating is important, luckily for me I had no student loan to pay back. The pit falls are very true... but I do have a GF = she is just very annoyed 
.Good luck with your career!
.Good luck with your career!
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Can you not try and get an ops job ? Then you will at least be learning about the sort of stuff you are interested in.Worked for a few guys at my old firm, in fact the ops support we got was not always the greatest with them reading their manuals and what not.
No disrespect to the CC, but the job has little relevance to what happens on the other side of the door other than dealing with awkward people...
No disrespect to the CC, but the job has little relevance to what happens on the other side of the door other than dealing with awkward people...
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Originally Posted by fade to grey
Can you not try and get an ops job ? Then you will at least be learning about the sort of stuff you are interested in.Worked for a few guys at my old firm, in fact the ops support we got was not always the greatest with them reading their manuals and what not.
No disrespect to the CC, but the job has little relevance to what happens on the other side of the door other than dealing with awkward people...
No disrespect to the CC, but the job has little relevance to what happens on the other side of the door other than dealing with awkward people...
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My girlfriend is CC and has a PPL (paid for from savings built up while living with her parents). She can't maintain it due to the costs (and her salary) and has no debts, owns her car, has modest outgoings etc.
If CC wages are your sole way of paying for training, my gut instinct is that you should look at a much better paid job to help pay for everything - what's your background/qualifications?
Yes, some good contacts etc. are probably to be had as CC but that's useless if it takes you years and years to get the licences...
If CC wages are your sole way of paying for training, my gut instinct is that you should look at a much better paid job to help pay for everything - what's your background/qualifications?
Yes, some good contacts etc. are probably to be had as CC but that's useless if it takes you years and years to get the licences...
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bucket_and_spade,
I am a second year A level student nearing the end of a PPL.
I have 9 GCSEs with C grade and above in all subjects and I am currently a Corporal in the Royal Air Force Air Cadets.
I also have gained my Bronze, Silver and Gold Duke Of Edinburgh Awards.
If I do find a better paid job that is related to aviation and gives me a chance to get my face known, then I'll take it.
I am a second year A level student nearing the end of a PPL.
I have 9 GCSEs with C grade and above in all subjects and I am currently a Corporal in the Royal Air Force Air Cadets.
I also have gained my Bronze, Silver and Gold Duke Of Edinburgh Awards.
If I do find a better paid job that is related to aviation and gives me a chance to get my face known, then I'll take it.
Last edited by Mikeoscar94; 1st Aug 2012 at 17:55.
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First of all good luck Mike, it's not easy.Keep up the ATC stuff, I left as a CWO, enjoyed every minute.
EGGD, I'll beg to differ too. I'm not sure what ops do at your airline but traditionally ops will gain an insight of:
-aircraft operations
-flight plans/flight planning
-aircraft performance
-MEL
-loading
-ETOPS dispatch
-maintenance requirement
-crisis management
-liasing with flight crew/fuellers/outside agencies/slot control
As cabin crew, you'll get the standard bumpf on first aid/security/ making tea. I don't think it's as useful IMHO.
I think Mike is working the angle of 'getting a foot in the door', but i can't imagine as junior cabin crew he'll be having lunch with the Chief Pilot on a daily basis. 'Getting your face known' never worked for anyone I know from a CC point of view.I can name several CC who were wannabe airline pilots who several years down the line have not moved.
Personally I'd concentrate on a job to get as much cash as quick as possible to start training, once through the training I'd consider working for an airline in a supplementary role, because you are ready then.
EGGD, I'll beg to differ too. I'm not sure what ops do at your airline but traditionally ops will gain an insight of:
-aircraft operations
-flight plans/flight planning
-aircraft performance
-MEL
-loading
-ETOPS dispatch
-maintenance requirement
-crisis management
-liasing with flight crew/fuellers/outside agencies/slot control
As cabin crew, you'll get the standard bumpf on first aid/security/ making tea. I don't think it's as useful IMHO.
I think Mike is working the angle of 'getting a foot in the door', but i can't imagine as junior cabin crew he'll be having lunch with the Chief Pilot on a daily basis. 'Getting your face known' never worked for anyone I know from a CC point of view.I can name several CC who were wannabe airline pilots who several years down the line have not moved.
Personally I'd concentrate on a job to get as much cash as quick as possible to start training, once through the training I'd consider working for an airline in a supplementary role, because you are ready then.
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Cabin crew to Pilot? Will it work?
Cheers fade to grey :-)
Everyone must remember this is only a backup. I have been in contact with APEM and from what I have heard they might do their cadet scheme again next year. If I dont get that then I will look at aviation related jobs whilst saving part time and a bit of private flying each month (1-3 hours) until I have saved up the total amount. Again in coming years I'll keep applying to cadet schemes (hopefully more will show up) and when I turn 20, I'll be able to apply for the West Atlantic Cadet Scheme. Doing it this way gives me a chance to fly a bit each month, have a job in aviation with the opportunity to network and gives me the chance to apply to any cadet schemes that usually require a PPL at the max.
Thank you everyone for your kind advice :-)
Everyone must remember this is only a backup. I have been in contact with APEM and from what I have heard they might do their cadet scheme again next year. If I dont get that then I will look at aviation related jobs whilst saving part time and a bit of private flying each month (1-3 hours) until I have saved up the total amount. Again in coming years I'll keep applying to cadet schemes (hopefully more will show up) and when I turn 20, I'll be able to apply for the West Atlantic Cadet Scheme. Doing it this way gives me a chance to fly a bit each month, have a job in aviation with the opportunity to network and gives me the chance to apply to any cadet schemes that usually require a PPL at the max.
Thank you everyone for your kind advice :-)
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By the way, does anyone know how often ops jobs pop up? I have seen Ops Assistant for a flying school advertised in Pilot magazine a few months ago which looked interesting but not sure on the salary. I would also try A/G operator or FISO if any paid vacancies were around but I don't know where to look!
Obviously some vacancies won't be advertised on aviationjobsearch or flight global jobs so is it a case of just phoning around?
Obviously some vacancies won't be advertised on aviationjobsearch or flight global jobs so is it a case of just phoning around?
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fade to grey -
All interesting information as I've said before, but in these instances most of this isn't relevant to the job that you will be doing and there are no skills as such. The knowledge that you will learn isn't necessary in many cases, that is why we have operations departments in the first place. Airline operations are very complex and it would be impossible to have knowledge of everything involved in getting an airliner into the sky. I'm more interested in the actual skills you learn as cabin crew and the familiarity of working in such a pressured environment.
Working on an airliner is very unique, there are many pressures involved with doing so that you cannot replicate anywhere else. For a start you have the added physiological issues associated with being on an airliner, the affects of working in a pressurised cabin where the cabin altitude can be up to 8000ft and with recycled air conditioned air that has a very low humidity. Working long hours and on a disruptive roster, possibly flying through multiple time zones and turnarounds in difficult weather conditions (rain, snow, ice, heat, humidity, wind).
Then there is the added time pressures, especially during Emergencies where every action that you take is time critical and could have very severe consequences if they are not done with care. Just like being a pilot, these situations are rarely experienced but do occur and are trained for on a regular basis, discussed before every flight and mentally prepared for. There are time pressures in getting the aircraft turned around on time, this is especially true of operations in a low-cost airline such as Flybe where turnaround times are extremely important. These time pressures extend to safety considerations such as securing the cabin, security checks and even the on board service. I know of many people as cabin crew who got behind on whatever their duties were, just like new airline pilots can be behind the aircraft they are flying.
You also become very familiar with all the aspects of the operation on the ground, you are in contact with the despatchers more than the flight crew and you have direct communication and work with the cleaners, caterers and other areas of the ground crew. You are more aware of what is going on on turnarounds as you are either in the cabin or possibly on the ground, or on the airbridge. As both cabin crew and flight crew I have had other members of cabin crew spot defects with the aircraft both externally and internally, including problems with oil and fuel. Things that can easily get missed on walkarounds or by other ground crew. Asking questions with engineers, despatchers and other staff around the aircraft and you can find out some very interesting things about the type you are operating on that may not be in your operations manuals.
First aid is an interesting one as well. Whilst the training on First Aid is quite intensive it doesn't really prepare you for how difficult it can be to deal with an in flight emergency when someone falls ill. In many ways, a mechanical emergency requiring flight crew action is much easier, in almost all cases there is a checklist for it in the QRH and if it is very time critical you will have memorised recall actions for the associated problem. In the event of a medical problem it will almost always rely on your knowledge and your ability in problem solving to resolve it. I have heard of some horrendous illnesses/injuries that require very practical skills and quick thinking to deal with. This is something which can only be learnt with life experience, something in the past that some pilots going through training have been accused of being deficient in.
There is also something to be said for making a decent cup of tea! Equally, if you are capable of this you will get in your own cabin crews good books if you get that dream job in the right hand seat.
Of course, all of these skills CAN be learnt, and I'm not saying that they will. A lot of people train to be cabin crew and work for a certain time in the profession, but many leave and I know that most cannot cope with the pressures involved or the difficulty of doing the job WELL and so progressing beyond seasonal cabin crew. In many ways this is the best test of ones abilities and my feelings after doing so myself is that if you can handle the pressure of being cabin crew then you can handle being flight crew. This is of course in parallel to your handling skills being up to scratch but no job mentioned in this thread can condition you for that.
I hope perhaps this is of interest for you or anyone else who is skeptical of what you can learn as cabin crew. I think any career in aviation is a valuable one if being a pilot in the future is your goal, but I can think of few that will be more relevant when you look at the bigger picture.
Cheers!
All interesting information as I've said before, but in these instances most of this isn't relevant to the job that you will be doing and there are no skills as such. The knowledge that you will learn isn't necessary in many cases, that is why we have operations departments in the first place. Airline operations are very complex and it would be impossible to have knowledge of everything involved in getting an airliner into the sky. I'm more interested in the actual skills you learn as cabin crew and the familiarity of working in such a pressured environment.
Working on an airliner is very unique, there are many pressures involved with doing so that you cannot replicate anywhere else. For a start you have the added physiological issues associated with being on an airliner, the affects of working in a pressurised cabin where the cabin altitude can be up to 8000ft and with recycled air conditioned air that has a very low humidity. Working long hours and on a disruptive roster, possibly flying through multiple time zones and turnarounds in difficult weather conditions (rain, snow, ice, heat, humidity, wind).
Then there is the added time pressures, especially during Emergencies where every action that you take is time critical and could have very severe consequences if they are not done with care. Just like being a pilot, these situations are rarely experienced but do occur and are trained for on a regular basis, discussed before every flight and mentally prepared for. There are time pressures in getting the aircraft turned around on time, this is especially true of operations in a low-cost airline such as Flybe where turnaround times are extremely important. These time pressures extend to safety considerations such as securing the cabin, security checks and even the on board service. I know of many people as cabin crew who got behind on whatever their duties were, just like new airline pilots can be behind the aircraft they are flying.
You also become very familiar with all the aspects of the operation on the ground, you are in contact with the despatchers more than the flight crew and you have direct communication and work with the cleaners, caterers and other areas of the ground crew. You are more aware of what is going on on turnarounds as you are either in the cabin or possibly on the ground, or on the airbridge. As both cabin crew and flight crew I have had other members of cabin crew spot defects with the aircraft both externally and internally, including problems with oil and fuel. Things that can easily get missed on walkarounds or by other ground crew. Asking questions with engineers, despatchers and other staff around the aircraft and you can find out some very interesting things about the type you are operating on that may not be in your operations manuals.
First aid is an interesting one as well. Whilst the training on First Aid is quite intensive it doesn't really prepare you for how difficult it can be to deal with an in flight emergency when someone falls ill. In many ways, a mechanical emergency requiring flight crew action is much easier, in almost all cases there is a checklist for it in the QRH and if it is very time critical you will have memorised recall actions for the associated problem. In the event of a medical problem it will almost always rely on your knowledge and your ability in problem solving to resolve it. I have heard of some horrendous illnesses/injuries that require very practical skills and quick thinking to deal with. This is something which can only be learnt with life experience, something in the past that some pilots going through training have been accused of being deficient in.
There is also something to be said for making a decent cup of tea! Equally, if you are capable of this you will get in your own cabin crews good books if you get that dream job in the right hand seat.
Of course, all of these skills CAN be learnt, and I'm not saying that they will. A lot of people train to be cabin crew and work for a certain time in the profession, but many leave and I know that most cannot cope with the pressures involved or the difficulty of doing the job WELL and so progressing beyond seasonal cabin crew. In many ways this is the best test of ones abilities and my feelings after doing so myself is that if you can handle the pressure of being cabin crew then you can handle being flight crew. This is of course in parallel to your handling skills being up to scratch but no job mentioned in this thread can condition you for that.
I hope perhaps this is of interest for you or anyone else who is skeptical of what you can learn as cabin crew. I think any career in aviation is a valuable one if being a pilot in the future is your goal, but I can think of few that will be more relevant when you look at the bigger picture.
Cheers!
Last edited by EGGD; 7th Aug 2012 at 11:27.
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Once again, thank you EGGD :-)
I suppose my first aid qualification and my tea-making abilities will come in useful if I do come to the world of CC :-)
Anyone got any advice on applying for sponsorship for an aerial survey company in the North West of England? :P
Kind regards,
Mike
I suppose my first aid qualification and my tea-making abilities will come in useful if I do come to the world of CC :-)
Anyone got any advice on applying for sponsorship for an aerial survey company in the North West of England? :P
Kind regards,
Mike
