Having scraped a few hours out of GA, how to make the next step?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere hot and sticky
Age: 44
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having scraped a few hours out of GA, how to make the next step?
In a current thread, SpreadEagle made a post that struck a chord with me and raises a very good question that I’d like to pose here without hijacking that thread.
SpreadEagle said:
This quote struck a chord with me because I am currently flying Cessna Caravans around Tanzania, and have been doing so for 3 years 
. This is how I have managed to log over 2000hrs of fantastic flying.
The very good question is this: In today’s hiring climate, what should a pilot with some non-airline experience do, in order to move another step up the ladder? (Not fixating on a jet, but preferably an aircraft with two engines, two pilots, wheels that retract and row numbers. A toilet is a bonus.)
Are there any operators in Europe who value pilots with a bit of GA experience?
Or is it simply a case of pick which A/C type to do your SSTR then cross your fingers?
Over to you…
Ps scroggs – I see your announcement that this is not a forum for job-hunting experienced pilots. I believe this post fits in the forum because it is valid for Airline wannabes who are still looking for their first big break… even if they have managed to scrape a few hours out of GA.
SpreadEagle said:
"The market has changed. Ryan Air and EasyJet want you straight out of your FTO. They want you to buy a TR from them. They don't care if you spent 3 years flying round Tanzania in a Cessna Caravan.
Everyone else just wants ready trained pilots from companies that treat theirs badly like Ryan Air and EasyJet.
If the likes of BA and Virgin want pilots they'll take from low cost. Low cost will go back to those with bags of cash straight from the chosen FTOs. No one will be looking for someone who scraped 1500 hours of piston time. Biz jets, same story."
Everyone else just wants ready trained pilots from companies that treat theirs badly like Ryan Air and EasyJet.
If the likes of BA and Virgin want pilots they'll take from low cost. Low cost will go back to those with bags of cash straight from the chosen FTOs. No one will be looking for someone who scraped 1500 hours of piston time. Biz jets, same story."
. This is how I have managed to log over 2000hrs of fantastic flying.The very good question is this: In today’s hiring climate, what should a pilot with some non-airline experience do, in order to move another step up the ladder? (Not fixating on a jet, but preferably an aircraft with two engines, two pilots, wheels that retract and row numbers. A toilet is a bonus.)
Are there any operators in Europe who value pilots with a bit of GA experience?
Or is it simply a case of pick which A/C type to do your SSTR then cross your fingers?
Over to you…
Ps scroggs – I see your announcement that this is not a forum for job-hunting experienced pilots. I believe this post fits in the forum because it is valid for Airline wannabes who are still looking for their first big break… even if they have managed to scrape a few hours out of GA.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dupre,
You raise a very good point. Fifteen years ago, I would have answered by suggesting a company such as Flybe (in the UK) or a regional turboprop operator who also operated jet equipment in order to faciliate the progression.
These days those companies are not sourcing most of their pilots from the GA market, they are part of the ab-initio training regime. This is now a revenue market rather than a cost structure, and there has been significant investment in ensuring that it becomes more so in the future.
Wheras once your CV trawl might have netted one or two interview bites at this level, nowadays these regional companies are sourcing from their CTC, FTE, OAA affiliation schemes. That is likely to become even more prevalent in the future.
Not only GA improvers, but also military leavers are finding the pickings few and far between, as they cannot compete on a price basis with these "cadet" programme graduates. Undoubtably there are jobs to be had, but back to the fishing analogy, the factory ships have hoovered up most of the stock, and it is much harder and requires forays into deeper waters, to find the few remaining stocks.
As you obviously know (but I mention it for the benefit of some of the readers to this forum,) you are in a very fortunate position to have a job that enables you to build up experience, eat (I presume), and renew your licence on an annual basis.
Time and time again, I make the point that a CPL/IR and a couple of hundred hours (outside of an integrated cadet scheme) has to be converted into something more meaningful to stand any realistic chance of an airline career. As your post highlights, even success at this intermediate level still presents enormous difficulties at the next stage on the ladder. Nevertheless it is a more comfortable place to be on the pyramid than many find themselves.
In NZ, I am aware of a few instructors who have recently found jobs with the regionals on Beech 1900's and the like. It is a very difficult market, but there are openings out there from time to time. Beyond that, it may well involve biting the bullet and going down the SSTR route. Your experience should put you in with a good chance, albeit with significant cost and no guarantee.
Good luck.
You raise a very good point. Fifteen years ago, I would have answered by suggesting a company such as Flybe (in the UK) or a regional turboprop operator who also operated jet equipment in order to faciliate the progression.
These days those companies are not sourcing most of their pilots from the GA market, they are part of the ab-initio training regime. This is now a revenue market rather than a cost structure, and there has been significant investment in ensuring that it becomes more so in the future.
Wheras once your CV trawl might have netted one or two interview bites at this level, nowadays these regional companies are sourcing from their CTC, FTE, OAA affiliation schemes. That is likely to become even more prevalent in the future.
Not only GA improvers, but also military leavers are finding the pickings few and far between, as they cannot compete on a price basis with these "cadet" programme graduates. Undoubtably there are jobs to be had, but back to the fishing analogy, the factory ships have hoovered up most of the stock, and it is much harder and requires forays into deeper waters, to find the few remaining stocks.
As you obviously know (but I mention it for the benefit of some of the readers to this forum,) you are in a very fortunate position to have a job that enables you to build up experience, eat (I presume), and renew your licence on an annual basis.
Time and time again, I make the point that a CPL/IR and a couple of hundred hours (outside of an integrated cadet scheme) has to be converted into something more meaningful to stand any realistic chance of an airline career. As your post highlights, even success at this intermediate level still presents enormous difficulties at the next stage on the ladder. Nevertheless it is a more comfortable place to be on the pyramid than many find themselves.
In NZ, I am aware of a few instructors who have recently found jobs with the regionals on Beech 1900's and the like. It is a very difficult market, but there are openings out there from time to time. Beyond that, it may well involve biting the bullet and going down the SSTR route. Your experience should put you in with a good chance, albeit with significant cost and no guarantee.
Good luck.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The big problem for the last few years has obviously been the lack of recruitment on any rung of the ladder coupled with several large operators folding and putting large numbers of very experienced pilots onto the market. This has been exaserbated by the change in retirement age from 55 to 65.
During this period operators who required pilots were in a buyers market, they could either get very experienced TR guys or low experienced guys who were willing to pay for their TRs. There was therefore no movement on the career ladder for those in between.
Hopefully, with the latest recruitment drive by BA, the progression up the ladder will start again. If BA take the rumoured 1000 pilots over the next 5 years there will be recruitment lower down the chain. I do not believe that with the difficulty in getting unsecured credit at the moment that the P2F industry can continue as it has. Over the next few years retirements should also return to the historic norm in all companies which will also help with movement.
Over the last year friends with 1000hr+ instructing have got jobs with Eastern, Jet2 and BMI Baby. Yes, they had to pay for the TR but they got proper F/O jobs with proper F/O pay. I think that aviation has changed in so far as there will be very few people in the future who will get their first TR paid for. This will just be a cost that will need to be factored into the whole cost of becoming a pilot. Just as one weighs the cost of becoming a doctor, lawyer, or accountant.
The future is not necessarily filled with sunlit uplands but neither are we on the edge of an "abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted pay 2 fly.
Regards
During this period operators who required pilots were in a buyers market, they could either get very experienced TR guys or low experienced guys who were willing to pay for their TRs. There was therefore no movement on the career ladder for those in between.
Hopefully, with the latest recruitment drive by BA, the progression up the ladder will start again. If BA take the rumoured 1000 pilots over the next 5 years there will be recruitment lower down the chain. I do not believe that with the difficulty in getting unsecured credit at the moment that the P2F industry can continue as it has. Over the next few years retirements should also return to the historic norm in all companies which will also help with movement.
Over the last year friends with 1000hr+ instructing have got jobs with Eastern, Jet2 and BMI Baby. Yes, they had to pay for the TR but they got proper F/O jobs with proper F/O pay. I think that aviation has changed in so far as there will be very few people in the future who will get their first TR paid for. This will just be a cost that will need to be factored into the whole cost of becoming a pilot. Just as one weighs the cost of becoming a doctor, lawyer, or accountant.
The future is not necessarily filled with sunlit uplands but neither are we on the edge of an "abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted pay 2 fly.
Regards
