Belgian FTO's vs. British equivalents
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 33
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Belgian FTO's vs. British equivalents
I've been a long-time reader on PPRuNe and similar Dutch forums and hereby first time poster. I've used the search function but cant seem to find any relevant information. Typing in "Belgium" or "Belgian" only seems to lead to topics about beer and politics 
Being a Belgian national, enrolling at a Belgian FTO might seem the most convenient. However I'm not very fond of our FTO's. Ben Air Flight Academy for example has a price tag of €76.000 (excl. ~€4000 hidden costs), doesn't have any employment statics, nor does it have a selection process (Unless things have changed). Sabena Flight Academy has a price tag of I kid you not, €85.000! and the following employment statistics (click!). Not having any further information, such as the total amount of graduates makes it quite difficult to judge whether this is a decent figure or not.
OAA has a price tag of £69.500 or €80.087 which is according to most on this forum, very expensive. CTC costs if I recall correctly, £69.000? This is why I'm shocked to see that Sabena Flight Academy AND Ben Air Flight Academy are more expensive.
Unlike OAA and CTC, Ben Air Flight Academy and Sabena Flight Academy are no big names at all in the flight training industry. I'm pretty sure most of you would have had to Google the abbreviations "BAFA" and "SFA" if I hadn't used the full word.
Is it just me or is it extremely crazy to enroll at one of the Belgian FTO's listed above? (Ignoring the fact that enrolling at any integrated flight training course is quite crazy at the moment, due to various reasons such as the currently unfavorable climate in the aviation industry etc)
side note: I'm not trying to get in a modular vs. integrated discussion here
The only advantage I see of enrolling at a Belgian FTO is the fact that I won't have to relocate and can stay close to family and friends. Pursuing the career of an airline pilot will inevitably involve relocating. So basing your decision on the "advantage" I just stated wouldn't really be that smart, just my 2 cents.
Having written all this, I've noticed I'm not really asking a question. The point of this topic isn't to bash Belgian FTO's, not at all. So here I go!
What's your vision on all this? IF I decide to start integrated training, should I look at foreign FTO's such as OAA and CTC? I've done some research in the years and those 2 gave me the best feeling of job security, professionalism etc. Eventho there is absolutely no job guarantee. I have to admit I've been staring point-blank at OAA through the years, recently giving other options such as CTC a chance too, it's looking good so far!
I hope I've written in decent, understandable English. As it's mainly self-taught through TV and online video games in my younger years. Pardon me for my excessive and wrongful use of commas!
Cheers!
Being a Belgian national, enrolling at a Belgian FTO might seem the most convenient. However I'm not very fond of our FTO's. Ben Air Flight Academy for example has a price tag of €76.000 (excl. ~€4000 hidden costs), doesn't have any employment statics, nor does it have a selection process (Unless things have changed). Sabena Flight Academy has a price tag of I kid you not, €85.000! and the following employment statistics (click!). Not having any further information, such as the total amount of graduates makes it quite difficult to judge whether this is a decent figure or not.
OAA has a price tag of £69.500 or €80.087 which is according to most on this forum, very expensive. CTC costs if I recall correctly, £69.000? This is why I'm shocked to see that Sabena Flight Academy AND Ben Air Flight Academy are more expensive.
Unlike OAA and CTC, Ben Air Flight Academy and Sabena Flight Academy are no big names at all in the flight training industry. I'm pretty sure most of you would have had to Google the abbreviations "BAFA" and "SFA" if I hadn't used the full word.
Is it just me or is it extremely crazy to enroll at one of the Belgian FTO's listed above? (Ignoring the fact that enrolling at any integrated flight training course is quite crazy at the moment, due to various reasons such as the currently unfavorable climate in the aviation industry etc)
side note: I'm not trying to get in a modular vs. integrated discussion here
The only advantage I see of enrolling at a Belgian FTO is the fact that I won't have to relocate and can stay close to family and friends. Pursuing the career of an airline pilot will inevitably involve relocating. So basing your decision on the "advantage" I just stated wouldn't really be that smart, just my 2 cents.
Having written all this, I've noticed I'm not really asking a question. The point of this topic isn't to bash Belgian FTO's, not at all. So here I go!
What's your vision on all this? IF I decide to start integrated training, should I look at foreign FTO's such as OAA and CTC? I've done some research in the years and those 2 gave me the best feeling of job security, professionalism etc. Eventho there is absolutely no job guarantee. I have to admit I've been staring point-blank at OAA through the years, recently giving other options such as CTC a chance too, it's looking good so far!
I hope I've written in decent, understandable English. As it's mainly self-taught through TV and online video games in my younger years. Pardon me for my excessive and wrongful use of commas!
Cheers!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 41
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always wondered why OAA and Sabena were so expensive when part of your training is done in Arizona. I would think that they would be able to keep some costs down that way, but perhaps the roundtrip flight tickets and housing are costly for them (but I can´t imagine that property is that expensive in Phoenix compared to the UK and Belgium)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SFA has a great reputation. According to what I hear, they have the highest employment percentage in Belgium (of course this is not confirmed) It is the only FTO in Belgium that does selection tests, personally i would never spend that much money if you don't know you have potential to become an airline pilot (not to get a CPL!) they are now also part of CAE and a lot of students are send to RYR after their training. Most of them pass the intervieuw.
again, a school will not assure you a job but choosing the good one might help you. good motivation and self knowledge is a good start... I know people where the flight school had told them they will prob not make it, they still continue but now 3 years still no job after several interviews...
good luck
again, a school will not assure you a job but choosing the good one might help you. good motivation and self knowledge is a good start... I know people where the flight school had told them they will prob not make it, they still continue but now 3 years still no job after several interviews...
good luck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Enroute to sand.
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can go to oxford and other reputable schools for similar prices as belgian schools. They are better respected by airline interviewers for a reason!
I hear many of these belgian schools speaking french on the radio, because the students english is poor, highly unprofessional.
I hear many of these belgian schools speaking french on the radio, because the students english is poor, highly unprofessional.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 33
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone I know paid €76.000 @ BAFA. No assessment, nothing. Having the necessary skills to succeed training and equally important, being able to pass an Airline Interview leaves a big question mark.
Whenever I engage an aviation related topic with him I can clearly tell he has done absolutely no research at all. As far as I know he's now halfway through his training, over the next couple of months (and perhaps years) I'll be able to monitor his progress, having a realistic idea of the industry instead of having to believe comments such as "I know someone who knows someone's who landed a job at <insert airline name>"
Whenever I engage an aviation related topic with him I can clearly tell he has done absolutely no research at all. As far as I know he's now halfway through his training, over the next couple of months (and perhaps years) I'll be able to monitor his progress, having a realistic idea of the industry instead of having to believe comments such as "I know someone who knows someone's who landed a job at <insert airline name>"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: belgium
Age: 34
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know several people who have done it, most of them ending with no job (for more than 2 years now). In the end it's all about the money. BAFA is a company and not a school. Primary goal: make money. If the students are not smart enough to read on forums like this it's their fault imo.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 33
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every school is a company, so you have to find the one that suits you best. The one that serves you best. HELPING you to find a job, and the ones actually assessing you are the ones who you'd rather spend your money at. Which is at least a bit wiser.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The cynic in me says that the "pickyness" of the selection process at any FTO will be directly proportional to the number of applicants.
If there are floods of potential students applying then they can cherry pick the best, but if they're struggling to fill courses I imagine it becomes tougher to turn away someone waving 85000 EURO at them - i.e. a "less capable" student will be accepted.
Before I went to flight school (OAA, which had a 2 day assessment at the time) I went to GAPAN (Guild of Air Pilots & Navigators).
GAPAN is a non profit organisation with a myriad of roles. One of the services they offer is aptitude testing for prospective pilots. This is paid for by the prospective student (the price covers GAPANs expenses, it's non-profit making), there is no affiliation with any airline or training school. The aim of the testing is to give someone like yourself (who's planning on investing vast sums of money) an idea of your abilities and your likelihood of success in airline pilot training. Fundamentally, GAPAN have no vested interested in you - they will give you an honest and impartial assessment of your aptitude. I don't know of anywhere else you receive such valuable advice.
The testing is conducted at RAF Cranwell, the RAF pilot selection facility. The cost is £175 which covers the rental of the facility from the RAF. I believe the GAPAN personnel involved are unpaid. When you factor in flights and accommodation you're probably looking at £300. In my opinion this is amongst the best money you can spend in your flight training.
Aptitude Tests - GAPAN
Good luck!
If there are floods of potential students applying then they can cherry pick the best, but if they're struggling to fill courses I imagine it becomes tougher to turn away someone waving 85000 EURO at them - i.e. a "less capable" student will be accepted.
Before I went to flight school (OAA, which had a 2 day assessment at the time) I went to GAPAN (Guild of Air Pilots & Navigators).
GAPAN is a non profit organisation with a myriad of roles. One of the services they offer is aptitude testing for prospective pilots. This is paid for by the prospective student (the price covers GAPANs expenses, it's non-profit making), there is no affiliation with any airline or training school. The aim of the testing is to give someone like yourself (who's planning on investing vast sums of money) an idea of your abilities and your likelihood of success in airline pilot training. Fundamentally, GAPAN have no vested interested in you - they will give you an honest and impartial assessment of your aptitude. I don't know of anywhere else you receive such valuable advice.
The testing is conducted at RAF Cranwell, the RAF pilot selection facility. The cost is £175 which covers the rental of the facility from the RAF. I believe the GAPAN personnel involved are unpaid. When you factor in flights and accommodation you're probably looking at £300. In my opinion this is amongst the best money you can spend in your flight training.
Aptitude Tests - GAPAN
Good luck!
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 35
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Becomming a pilot is all about you and your attitude! Never forget that, but allot of my class @ BAFA do think the school is going to make them a pilot. WRONG!!!
Now, being a student pilot @ Ben Air Flight Academy I can speak from MY experience. I do believe that BAFA is a good school with professional flight instructors and very good ground instructors. Most of them are pilots @ Brussels Airlines, Jetair, TNT, Ryanair, meteorologist, psychologists, air traffic controlers,...
Untill now I have never had issues or problems during my training on the ground or in the air. So all I can say is that they do a very good job in training us.
@ BAFA all FI's have to speak Dutch and English so there are never problems with communication in the air or on the ground (I know from air traffic control that SFA does have problems like that)
Every FTO is a company, they are not funded by the government so they have to get their money from somewhere. I know from what I see that there are some student pilots that do not meet up to BAFA standards but they are allowed to continue their training, whether or not for the money, I don't know but in my opinion it's wrong to let them continue. IF they ever finish training, they will never pass an interview becouse they don't have the right attitude to do so (and not enough knowledge)
BAFA is growing fast, maybe faster than it can handle but training is more than up to standards and very professional.
Regards
Now, being a student pilot @ Ben Air Flight Academy I can speak from MY experience. I do believe that BAFA is a good school with professional flight instructors and very good ground instructors. Most of them are pilots @ Brussels Airlines, Jetair, TNT, Ryanair, meteorologist, psychologists, air traffic controlers,...
Untill now I have never had issues or problems during my training on the ground or in the air. So all I can say is that they do a very good job in training us.
@ BAFA all FI's have to speak Dutch and English so there are never problems with communication in the air or on the ground (I know from air traffic control that SFA does have problems like that)
Every FTO is a company, they are not funded by the government so they have to get their money from somewhere. I know from what I see that there are some student pilots that do not meet up to BAFA standards but they are allowed to continue their training, whether or not for the money, I don't know but in my opinion it's wrong to let them continue. IF they ever finish training, they will never pass an interview becouse they don't have the right attitude to do so (and not enough knowledge)
BAFA is growing fast, maybe faster than it can handle but training is more than up to standards and very professional.
Regards
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ATC issues are funny, I thought Belgian people were very good in English. Maybe there are some issues with the French speaking Belgians. However I would be surprised if they still have a problem when they start Flying in Belgium (after 9 months theory in English and 6 months in the States)
For the rest I fully mostly agree with the BAFA guy's comment just above. There is also another FTO in Belgium and that is Hub'air but I don't know much about that on
For the rest I fully mostly agree with the BAFA guy's comment just above. There is also another FTO in Belgium and that is Hub'air but I don't know much about that on
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 33
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ATC issues are funny, I thought Belgian people were very good in English. Maybe there are some issues with the French speaking Belgians.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Virell,
Have you thought about EPST in Holland? They do their flight training and ATPL theory with Oxford or a flight school in Scandinavia but then you get a top quality MCC back in Holland at the end, instead of the minimum hour course that is the norm at most flight schools. Definitely a plus point.
Good luck and enjoy it!
Heliskier
Have you thought about EPST in Holland? They do their flight training and ATPL theory with Oxford or a flight school in Scandinavia but then you get a top quality MCC back in Holland at the end, instead of the minimum hour course that is the norm at most flight schools. Definitely a plus point.
Good luck and enjoy it!
Heliskier
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If money is not the problem and you want to end up in Belgium, go for a Belgian school. Since you will have less costs staying it compensates. Being a former Belgian school graduate I regret not have gone to the school with the best connections (aka a way in to the airline of your choice).
If money is not the problem and you just want to fly go to any school with the best connections and the hardest selection, it will prepare you for the jobmarket.
If money is a problem, well ... that's an other topic... but you have my respect...
I wouldn't spent any money on apt tests. They will not test you for everything a pilot needs to be. Just for a small segment.
PM me if you want
If money is not the problem and you just want to fly go to any school with the best connections and the hardest selection, it will prepare you for the jobmarket.
If money is a problem, well ... that's an other topic... but you have my respect...
I wouldn't spent any money on apt tests. They will not test you for everything a pilot needs to be. Just for a small segment.
PM me if you want
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Between earth and sky
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For your info, Belgian Flight school based in Charleroi, Belgium has got an approved integrated course for cheap price compared to UK FTO. Finally, be aware that no school can guarantee you a job...
