Job market in Australia
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Job market in Australia
A bit of background first. I am 17, living in the UK, and have a PPL with a few hours on top. I am absolutely certain I want to do this for a living, thus I considered the options:
1: Get a degree in some sort of engineering and join the military after University (not going to happen now that the RAF has cut recruitment by 1/4).
2: Get a CPL in the US, because it is hideously expensive here, come back to the UK (and land in a saturated job market).
Seeing as those two are not going to happen, I am looking at opportunities in Australia. The training is relatively cheap, but the most important factor is the job market. I have heard that it is good, at least for instructors and helicopter pilots. So, a few questions:
1: Is the job market really better than elsewhere in the world?
2: If so, would learning to fly helicopters be a better option (it was/may still be listed on their wanted professions list)?
1: Get a degree in some sort of engineering and join the military after University (not going to happen now that the RAF has cut recruitment by 1/4).
2: Get a CPL in the US, because it is hideously expensive here, come back to the UK (and land in a saturated job market).
Seeing as those two are not going to happen, I am looking at opportunities in Australia. The training is relatively cheap, but the most important factor is the job market. I have heard that it is good, at least for instructors and helicopter pilots. So, a few questions:
1: Is the job market really better than elsewhere in the world?
2: If so, would learning to fly helicopters be a better option (it was/may still be listed on their wanted professions list)?
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You seem to be a helicopter student who's looking at the helicopter market Downunder.
The market here in Oz is tough. There are a couple of schools who may offer jobs after your training, but usually these are scenic tour operations in the outback until you have 1000 - 1500 hours under your belt (at least a couple of years), and only then will you be moving on to instructing. Unlike the US where fresh CPL(H)s instruct to build hours, Oz flight schools do not take on pilots with less hours than what I said because the thinking is that you have no experience to pass on to a learning student.
Most pilots therefore do the scenic thing to build hours in the meantime. A lot of them stay in single piston Day VFR unless you are ultimately planning to go offshore (which means twin turbines), but acquiring turbine hours (even single turbine) is a different story.
The market here in Oz is tough. There are a couple of schools who may offer jobs after your training, but usually these are scenic tour operations in the outback until you have 1000 - 1500 hours under your belt (at least a couple of years), and only then will you be moving on to instructing. Unlike the US where fresh CPL(H)s instruct to build hours, Oz flight schools do not take on pilots with less hours than what I said because the thinking is that you have no experience to pass on to a learning student.
Most pilots therefore do the scenic thing to build hours in the meantime. A lot of them stay in single piston Day VFR unless you are ultimately planning to go offshore (which means twin turbines), but acquiring turbine hours (even single turbine) is a different story.
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Thanks for the information. I have a fixed wing PPL, but online sources seemed to point out that helicopter pilots are more in demand downunder. In terms of actual desire to go down fixed/rotary route, I am impartial. Does anyone know a rough estimate of 0-CPL for fixed and rotary wing there?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
When I was working in Oz in the Kimberley the queue for helicopter jobs wasn't as "long" as the fixed wing but there were less jobs going.
It is a much harder market to crack, especially if you want to do SAR and Aeromed. You'll be competing with the ex-mil guys.
Now, before you get all excited about Australia, do you have the right to live and work there?
At the moment, pilots aren't on the list.
Read the CASA site if you don't believe me.
While you're there, that site should give you the various syllabi for the licences you're after.
It is a much harder market to crack, especially if you want to do SAR and Aeromed. You'll be competing with the ex-mil guys.
Now, before you get all excited about Australia, do you have the right to live and work there?
At the moment, pilots aren't on the list.
Read the CASA site if you don't believe me.
While you're there, that site should give you the various syllabi for the licences you're after.
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Hey ThomasB,
Did you by any chance see the programme on Friday about moving to Oz (it may just be a complete coincidence), if so it is alot harder to get flying work in Australia (unless you're an Oz or NZ citizen or your parents are) than the programme made out.
We're just not on the list of what they want. I think we were taken off way back in 2005.
Just so that you don't decide to go this route based on the idea of getting a Pilot job out there. I suppose it possible but I think its abit unlikely.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Did you by any chance see the programme on Friday about moving to Oz (it may just be a complete coincidence), if so it is alot harder to get flying work in Australia (unless you're an Oz or NZ citizen or your parents are) than the programme made out.
We're just not on the list of what they want. I think we were taken off way back in 2005.
Just so that you don't decide to go this route based on the idea of getting a Pilot job out there. I suppose it possible but I think its abit unlikely.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
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Training Costs
Hey Thomas
Don't know the comparative costs, but I do know there's a lot of flight training - fixed wing and rotary - in Sth Africa and I've been told by guys at the CAA there that the costs there are pretty competitive on a global scale. Worth while looking up.
Don't know the comparative costs, but I do know there's a lot of flight training - fixed wing and rotary - in Sth Africa and I've been told by guys at the CAA there that the costs there are pretty competitive on a global scale. Worth while looking up.
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I'm not that concerned about where I do my flight training (as long as its comparatively cheap), but rather where are the best opportunities. From what I have heard, the UK and US have an abundance of experienced pilots without jobs. I will most likely need to chose between a university degree or flight training, so it's important for me to have a decent chance of obtaining at least an hour building job at the end of it (I know that is a lot to ask for at the moment).
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Redsnail, maybe not on the federal GSM list, but flight crew were put on the regional migration skills list again.
The issue is getting sponsored/offered job by company in 'regional Australia'.
It's been public past year or so. There was one experienced pilot that couldn't get offer from Bristow in Australia or another 'similar' company doing offshore flying, so not sure how one would be sponsored through that.
True, for instructing in helis, one needs 400hrs incl (can include the Aussie 40hr instructor rating), but that's ROTARY. Compare that with 105 or so hours for CPL, if done with mins 0 to CPL, or even less, with fixed wing ratings/licenses, though doubt by much, since it's heli flying..
Therefore, it's not so much about schools not wanting lower time instructors, but rather a necessity, getting tours in R44/B206, mustering in R22 if station experience. Also, Grade 3/4 instructors can do less 'stuff' compared to G1/2, so sort of FI(R), but more stepped.
It's not impossible, but easier to crack migration with another skilled job, if you have education/experience to offer. If going the flying route, hmm. Tough. I know how you feel.
You're asking about helicopter career prospects. You mention PPL(A). If I weren't so addicted to helicopters (and other flying) all life and 'making it happen' last years and next few more, I'd just try to train/work in aeroplanes. Much less heartache and cost. Things start to
more and more regarding airline flying, but if you consider helicopters, you're not shiny jet wannabe exactly.
You're more likely to score fixed wing job, if you sort visa/work permit stuff.
Check more on Department of Immigration & Citizenship
rather than take my words for gospel. Look for GSM and regional lists. NOT redsnail's link.
One thing, from July this year, the current system ends and considerably overhauled, I'd say simplified and advantageous for some, incl not so young people, will be launched.
As for training, Australia with their local helicopter rates, strong currency, too, doesn't make sense for UK/EU folks, compared to USA.
roulette mentions South Africa. The best rates I could research in the past, are crawling to about 300-350 USD/hr after conversion from ZAR. Hmm.
Rand appreciated in value as well, Sterling is weaker.
I'd like to do some heli flying in SA in future, but not likely to happen except maybe licence conversion from FAA CPL once I get it later on. Definnitely not a place to save money on heli flying. Fixed wing, still deals to be had, besides great landscape.
The issue is getting sponsored/offered job by company in 'regional Australia'.
It's been public past year or so. There was one experienced pilot that couldn't get offer from Bristow in Australia or another 'similar' company doing offshore flying, so not sure how one would be sponsored through that.
True, for instructing in helis, one needs 400hrs incl (can include the Aussie 40hr instructor rating), but that's ROTARY. Compare that with 105 or so hours for CPL, if done with mins 0 to CPL, or even less, with fixed wing ratings/licenses, though doubt by much, since it's heli flying..
Therefore, it's not so much about schools not wanting lower time instructors, but rather a necessity, getting tours in R44/B206, mustering in R22 if station experience. Also, Grade 3/4 instructors can do less 'stuff' compared to G1/2, so sort of FI(R), but more stepped.
It's not impossible, but easier to crack migration with another skilled job, if you have education/experience to offer. If going the flying route, hmm. Tough. I know how you feel.
You're asking about helicopter career prospects. You mention PPL(A). If I weren't so addicted to helicopters (and other flying) all life and 'making it happen' last years and next few more, I'd just try to train/work in aeroplanes. Much less heartache and cost. Things start to
more and more regarding airline flying, but if you consider helicopters, you're not shiny jet wannabe exactly.You're more likely to score fixed wing job, if you sort visa/work permit stuff.
Check more on Department of Immigration & Citizenship
rather than take my words for gospel. Look for GSM and regional lists. NOT redsnail's link.
One thing, from July this year, the current system ends and considerably overhauled, I'd say simplified and advantageous for some, incl not so young people, will be launched.
As for training, Australia with their local helicopter rates, strong currency, too, doesn't make sense for UK/EU folks, compared to USA.
roulette mentions South Africa. The best rates I could research in the past, are crawling to about 300-350 USD/hr after conversion from ZAR. Hmm.
Rand appreciated in value as well, Sterling is weaker.
I'd like to do some heli flying in SA in future, but not likely to happen except maybe licence conversion from FAA CPL once I get it later on. Definnitely not a place to save money on heli flying. Fixed wing, still deals to be had, besides great landscape.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
MartinCH, to get that visa you need to be sponsored by your future employer. As the OP is not qualified, then he can't be sponsored.
The OP is talking about going to Australia to get his CPL and then trying for a job.
As far as I can tell from the OP, he has not addressed the whole "living and working in Australia" bit.
I wish him luck, it is not impossible but it does take some persistance.
The OP is talking about going to Australia to get his CPL and then trying for a job.
As far as I can tell from the OP, he has not addressed the whole "living and working in Australia" bit.
I wish him luck, it is not impossible but it does take some persistance.
