general points about the industry...

[jpointer123]

It may be me, but I can't think of any other industry which you have to pay yourself into with no jobs after training. You'll always need lawyers, doctors, IT consultants, but as long as there is a pool of experienced unemployed pilots seeking jobs, you'll hardly ever need brand new pilots.The only reason why these unemployed pilots are still unemployed is that new pilots are jumping the queue into easyjet and FR, so although the jobs are the same,but they are being taken by the wrong people. Maybe we should go back to the days when the only airline pilots were ex military/ sponsored by airlines, so as we speak someone at OAA isn't being trained for a job that simply doesn't exist. it might be for the best that a career in aviation seems as far fetched as becoming an astronaut. loads of people dream of becoming astronauts, but that doesn't mean we have Oxford space academy, and a massive surplus of astronauts looking for jobs. your thoughts...

[MIKECR]

...................its just the way it is, like it or lump it im afriad.

[NzCaptainAndrew]

Ive been wanting to be a pilot since I can remember. I will do anything to become an airline pilot, I dont care how long it takes or how hard it will be.

Aviation is a long and hard road, what did you expect? flying jobs everywhere?

[27/09]

Capt A

The main point here is that places like Oxford are not being honest about career opportunities and the conditions their graduates will most likely work under.

Part of the problem is exactly this

I will do anything to become an airline pilot

some people are doing anything including selling themselves to the devil to get a job, cutting their throats and the throats of others around them.

[SVoa]

Dude, most people in here love aviation and flying just as much as you do... if not everyone.. However there are limits and boundaries.. it is exactly that attitude ( ill do anything to fly ) that has put the aviation industry where it is today. As you see, airlines are hiring now, but most of them are asking for type ratings simply because almost everyone has one now!!!

Svoa

[Torque Tonight]

Your thoughts...

OK. You asked, so here goes. Spare us the naive and pretentious moralising. The pilot employment market of the last few years is purely a result of market forces and 'supply and demand'. While you sit on a moral highhorse bleating about how thing should be, many of us have had to face the realities of the situation and deal with things as they actually are. By taking the moral highground and launching a personal embargo against the likes of Easy and RYR, you will not make a blind bit of difference to the overall situation. The only person who will be disadvantaged will be you and the beneficiaries will be those who you are competing against for jobs.

Andrew's attitude is fairly typical as the source of the 'supply' part of the 'supply and demand' problem: 'I know there aren't jobs out there but I'm going to train anyway', and the other statement common among newbies: 'I'm in it for the love of flying' therefore not caring about low, zero or negative salary.

I now work for one of the airlines you mentioned so am I one of the 'wrong people', as you put it? You may be interested to know that I was previously a military pilot, so am I also one of the 'right people'?

I am perhaps being a bit harsh on you, and you are not all wrong, but your irritating mistake is to think that this issue is completely black and white, easily rectified and that everyone who has had to take their chances in the industry in the last few years is a fool. You will come to realise that it is a lot more complex and dynamic than you thought.

You are right that people are not paying to train as astronauts, and if you know a commercial astronaut school do let me know. There are however plenty of people buying lottery tickets, thousands paying to travel to X-Factor auditions, and many taking degrees in serious professions where they will graduate with debts of tens of thousands prior to entering severe competition for jobs. Not so different from piloting, apart from the amounts involved.

[No RYR for me]

Excellent post TT. I was too lazy to write exactly your response