MCC Courses
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MCC Courses
Can anyone please tell me where they did there MCC. I am wondering whether it is worth the while trekking over to Sweden's Bfsaa/CAE route. In the hope of getting an interview on the back of the course or to just sit tight. Complete an MCC at a cheaper school on something like a King Air and practice later on a jet sim nearer to an assessment?
Thanks
P.s I have thoroughly searched this site and have found many posted touching upon this subject but nothing of any use...
-J
Thanks
P.s I have thoroughly searched this site and have found many posted touching upon this subject but nothing of any use...
-J
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CRM Europe
CRM Europe in Cranfield are very good. I did my MCC and JOC there for a total of £2100. The MCC alone is £1499 and in my opinion was very good.
It is done on an AlsimALX fixed based sim, but the graphics on the wrap around screens make it pretty realistic. Throughout the 2 weeks I was there, there was never any tech problems and everything ran smoothly.
If you are not too bothered about the full motion, CRM are definitely excellent value for money. The cheapest I could find at the time anyway.
Hope this helps,
Burger81
It is done on an AlsimALX fixed based sim, but the graphics on the wrap around screens make it pretty realistic. Throughout the 2 weeks I was there, there was never any tech problems and everything ran smoothly.
If you are not too bothered about the full motion, CRM are definitely excellent value for money. The cheapest I could find at the time anyway.
Hope this helps,
Burger81
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MCC at European Skybus Ltd.
Recently did my MCC at European Skybus Ltd in Bournemouth. Approx £1900 inc VAT for 3 days of really good groundschool and 20 hours in their full motion 737-200 plus pre-flight and post-flight briefings. Friendly Staff, experienced Instructors and good materials & facilities. All in all, a big thumbs up from me.
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I used the Bournemouth 737 sim when it was in Dublin on the Parc course. Forget spending money on JOCs, doing your MCC on this sim covers everything. The training I received the is still with me years later and with 3,000 hrs on the 737. Very very highly recommended
london met - king air (not a jet) - very good !
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I can only echo the sentiments of those posting before having done my MCC at European. Very good value and a the 737-200 is a great 'transition' simulator from basic piston twins to heavily automised jets. Experienced instructors and friendly, helpful staff. Not sure what the price is now but as stated it was extremely reasonable at the end of last year.
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European at Bournemouth all day long!
Brilliant course. Very nice chaps.
If you've not had any jet experience a full motion jet is what you need for Excitement and inspiration. Stay away from those new pc sims. Nothing like the real thing!
Enjoy!
Brilliant course. Very nice chaps.
If you've not had any jet experience a full motion jet is what you need for Excitement and inspiration. Stay away from those new pc sims. Nothing like the real thing!
Enjoy!
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I would look at something with EFIS to increase your learning. The 737-200 is a dead duck. Yes the MCC is a tick course, but only if you treat it that way.
Learn and make contacts, and you will come out on top. Go for a fixed base budget MCC and you won't see the benefit.
Learn and make contacts, and you will come out on top. Go for a fixed base budget MCC and you won't see the benefit.
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The simulator you do your MCC is irrelevant. What is more important is the quality of the instructors and the course they have on offer.
My feeling is if you do your MCC on say something which is not to overly complicated to fly then at least you can concentrate on the actual CRM aspects of the course which in essence is what the course is about and is a hard skill to master.
Even though the course is a tick in the box, what you put in you will get out. So before going on the course know the SOPs , Memory Items, Flows , where to find things in checklist etc.
Also, in my opinion whether it’s done on EFIS or Dials is irrelevant.
If you can fly the plane using dials and raw data you will have no problems flying an EFIS type aircraft compared to if you were going from EFIS to dials
My feeling is if you do your MCC on say something which is not to overly complicated to fly then at least you can concentrate on the actual CRM aspects of the course which in essence is what the course is about and is a hard skill to master.
Even though the course is a tick in the box, what you put in you will get out. So before going on the course know the SOPs , Memory Items, Flows , where to find things in checklist etc.
Also, in my opinion whether it’s done on EFIS or Dials is irrelevant.
If you can fly the plane using dials and raw data you will have no problems flying an EFIS type aircraft compared to if you were going from EFIS to dials
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I did my MCC on 737-200 sim, allnhand flying. It was a fantastic experiencen and I still draw on the handlng knowledge. Such an MCC makes a great JOC course too. MCC instruction is important, but that mainly is driven by attitude to be honest. Modern EFIS is in my experience is totally uneccessaary for an MCC, and is best left to proper TR to earn.
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I beg to differ.
How many sim checks do you know of that use the old 200's these days?
I too did my MCC on the 732 at PARC, but Jet2, DHL, BACF, etc all use something a bit more modern.
If you are paying for a course on a level C or D sim, why not get the most out of it and give you a leg up for the next stage?
After all, you can ask the instructor to give you a JOC experience and hand fly with EFIS, it will just give you the ability to scan for information on screens that you maybe thankful for.
Having done the MCC on a classic and flown a modern EFIS on line for thousands of hours, I just know it would have been easier - even the 757 with a bit of both.
Revision before the course is the secret.
How many sim checks do you know of that use the old 200's these days?
I too did my MCC on the 732 at PARC, but Jet2, DHL, BACF, etc all use something a bit more modern.
If you are paying for a course on a level C or D sim, why not get the most out of it and give you a leg up for the next stage?
After all, you can ask the instructor to give you a JOC experience and hand fly with EFIS, it will just give you the ability to scan for information on screens that you maybe thankful for.
Having done the MCC on a classic and flown a modern EFIS on line for thousands of hours, I just know it would have been easier - even the 757 with a bit of both.
Revision before the course is the secret.
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FSB
I did my MCC with FlugSchuleBerlin (Flight School Berlin) in Sep 2010, in a King Air 200 sim.The instructors were real good and since the groups were small they were able to concentrate on the individuals problems, the whole thing cost me 2400Euro including accomodation for 9 days at the airport.Prvt message me for details.
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I've got a few thousand hours on 737 CL and I can hosnestly say I learning the FMC and EFIS bits was not a challenge. Ground school, Aerosim and fixed base should be enough to master those. What really helps is handling the aircraft with confidence, not having to repeat OEI handling elements and keeping the CRM together when under pressure.
The 737-200 sim is half the cost of the pukka FM sim MCCs that I have seen. Any jet sim course hand flown will greatly enhance capacity, but why spend more on an MCC for sexy flat screen FMC niknaks that have no bearing on basic essentials?
The 737-200 sim is half the cost of the pukka FM sim MCCs that I have seen. Any jet sim course hand flown will greatly enhance capacity, but why spend more on an MCC for sexy flat screen FMC niknaks that have no bearing on basic essentials?
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This is a new thread -
Maybe you guys - who obviously know better - can help him following your fixed based or steam instrument knowledge.
Nah! Didn't think so.
Hello everyone.
I have an invitation for a B-737 simulator assessment. It is my first experience in a civil airliner simulator so I wander what should I expect from such selection process. Can anyone give me some details of what should I point out or where should I get more info?
Thank you in advance!
Oh - & it is on an NG.
Maybe you guys - who obviously know better - can help him following your fixed based or steam instrument knowledge.
Nah! Didn't think so.
Hello everyone.
I have an invitation for a B-737 simulator assessment. It is my first experience in a civil airliner simulator so I wander what should I expect from such selection process. Can anyone give me some details of what should I point out or where should I get more info?
Thank you in advance!
Oh - & it is on an NG.
Last edited by PAPI-74; 28th Jan 2011 at 18:33.
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My belief is *the MCC is there to teach the student on how to act in a multicrew enviorment - it's not designed to teach him/her how to fly the aircraft or for the purpose of preparing them for a sim assessment.
On my course, and I don't know if this is typical of an MCC course we had a number of emergency's thrown at us and it was encouraged to make full use of the autopilot and then solve the problem acting as a crew - which was hard work!
If potential students want to gain maximum exposure hand flying the aircraft with the view of improving there chances in a sim assessment in my opinion they won't gain the maxiumum benefit of the course.
Also piloting skills if you don't use them you loose them so to speak. I know when I come back of a holiday it takes me a couple of sectors to get back into the swing of things. *Now take a 200 hr pilot , it could be servral months before he gets a sim assessent at which point he/she won't have the same skill level when they finished the course.
For that reason I would find the right course at the right price learn as much as you can on the mcc and then when you get an interview hire a sim and have an one or two hrs practice.
On my course, and I don't know if this is typical of an MCC course we had a number of emergency's thrown at us and it was encouraged to make full use of the autopilot and then solve the problem acting as a crew - which was hard work!
If potential students want to gain maximum exposure hand flying the aircraft with the view of improving there chances in a sim assessment in my opinion they won't gain the maxiumum benefit of the course.
Also piloting skills if you don't use them you loose them so to speak. I know when I come back of a holiday it takes me a couple of sectors to get back into the swing of things. *Now take a 200 hr pilot , it could be servral months before he gets a sim assessent at which point he/she won't have the same skill level when they finished the course.
For that reason I would find the right course at the right price learn as much as you can on the mcc and then when you get an interview hire a sim and have an one or two hrs practice.
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Drjones,your absolutely nail on the head. The idea of the MCC course is not to teach a TR, its to teach CRM, teamworking...all those good skills that are essential on the aircraft. Note I dont just say 'flightdeck', as theres also cabin crew to think about. These folks are a fundamental part of the operation too. Im fortunate to work with some excellent cabin crew....very capable and 100% dependable.
If we really get down to the nitty gritty, the principles of MCC could actually be taught in a cardboard box....a car...or whatever. And this is the distinction that people need to make. Do you sign up to an MCC course because the FTO does it an all singing all dancing jet sim or do you sign up to the FTO that has a reputation for providing a good solid grounding in MCC and CRM. The answer of course probably lies somewhere between the two. Its worth thinking about however....does an airline assesment want to see that you've learned the inner gubbings of operating a 737 FMS, or do they want to see that you possess good basic flying skill, the ability to learn, and good MCC/CRM skills?? A huge emphasis these days is actually aportioned to the latter 2 elements.
If we really get down to the nitty gritty, the principles of MCC could actually be taught in a cardboard box....a car...or whatever. And this is the distinction that people need to make. Do you sign up to an MCC course because the FTO does it an all singing all dancing jet sim or do you sign up to the FTO that has a reputation for providing a good solid grounding in MCC and CRM. The answer of course probably lies somewhere between the two. Its worth thinking about however....does an airline assesment want to see that you've learned the inner gubbings of operating a 737 FMS, or do they want to see that you possess good basic flying skill, the ability to learn, and good MCC/CRM skills?? A huge emphasis these days is actually aportioned to the latter 2 elements.