Some help / advice on training route / timings please
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Some help / advice on training route / timings please
Hi,
First time posting here. Firstly i'd like to thank people in general for all of the posts / discussions in the forums. I've been reading them over the past couple of years with great interest and they have undoubtedly helped with my pilot training decisions to date (As well as causing some amusement with some of the comments posted!)
To start with; my current situation. I completed training for my PPL + night rating in May 2009 and have been steadily building my hours doing various trips around the UK (Currently up to 135), and have recently started studying for the ATPL exams with trusty Bristol Ground School. From reading the forums I feel I have developed a reasonable idea of the best way to proceed from this point, but thought I would run a few questions by people to get some extra opinions. My ultimate ambition would be to be an airline pilot, however i realise this is tough to achieve and is likely to take some time. My questions then are:
1) Given the current state of the economy, how best might it be to progress from my current point. The way I see it I can either press on with ATPLs / CPL / IR planning to finish around 2013 and then try to land some sort of air taxi job / airline job with low hours (If i'm lucky and the economy is improving). Alternatively, get a CPL / FIR hoping to finish a little bit sooner (around end 2012), make some money, enjoy myself and keep current while things hopefully improve further and then get my Multi / IR towards the end of the 3 year period post ATPL exams. Do you folks think things will be improving enough by 2013 to land a basic air taxi job (Hence worth risking pressing on with the whole kit and kaboodle) or would it be best to go down the FI route and keep it ticking along for a few more years while building up my experience? I'm not looking to get into debt for all this. I'm gonna live cheap and save up for it all over the next couple of years.
2) Talking about the economy recovering and the airline industry getting back on its feet, do you think this is actually going to happen in the next 5 years, or is it going to look grim with P2F, reducing Ts and Cs and generally limited opporunties for low houred folk for considerably longer into the future? Obviously flying a big shiny jet is the dream but if its not really going to happen for years then I would be equally happy getting my FI rating and having a bit of fun for some extra cash at the weekends and just seeing how things develop.
I know its going to be a long tough slog no matter which way I go, but I am pretty patient and figure even if it takes 5 - 10 years, as long as I keep developing my current career in the meantime to ensure my long term prospects and stability I'll still have nearly 30 years of flying to look forward too, or failing landing a job, a damned good time trying!
Many thanks for any help / advice as i'm sure your all pretty busy and once again, hello to everyone!
Grouse
First time posting here. Firstly i'd like to thank people in general for all of the posts / discussions in the forums. I've been reading them over the past couple of years with great interest and they have undoubtedly helped with my pilot training decisions to date (As well as causing some amusement with some of the comments posted!)
To start with; my current situation. I completed training for my PPL + night rating in May 2009 and have been steadily building my hours doing various trips around the UK (Currently up to 135), and have recently started studying for the ATPL exams with trusty Bristol Ground School. From reading the forums I feel I have developed a reasonable idea of the best way to proceed from this point, but thought I would run a few questions by people to get some extra opinions. My ultimate ambition would be to be an airline pilot, however i realise this is tough to achieve and is likely to take some time. My questions then are:
1) Given the current state of the economy, how best might it be to progress from my current point. The way I see it I can either press on with ATPLs / CPL / IR planning to finish around 2013 and then try to land some sort of air taxi job / airline job with low hours (If i'm lucky and the economy is improving). Alternatively, get a CPL / FIR hoping to finish a little bit sooner (around end 2012), make some money, enjoy myself and keep current while things hopefully improve further and then get my Multi / IR towards the end of the 3 year period post ATPL exams. Do you folks think things will be improving enough by 2013 to land a basic air taxi job (Hence worth risking pressing on with the whole kit and kaboodle) or would it be best to go down the FI route and keep it ticking along for a few more years while building up my experience? I'm not looking to get into debt for all this. I'm gonna live cheap and save up for it all over the next couple of years.
2) Talking about the economy recovering and the airline industry getting back on its feet, do you think this is actually going to happen in the next 5 years, or is it going to look grim with P2F, reducing Ts and Cs and generally limited opporunties for low houred folk for considerably longer into the future? Obviously flying a big shiny jet is the dream but if its not really going to happen for years then I would be equally happy getting my FI rating and having a bit of fun for some extra cash at the weekends and just seeing how things develop.
I know its going to be a long tough slog no matter which way I go, but I am pretty patient and figure even if it takes 5 - 10 years, as long as I keep developing my current career in the meantime to ensure my long term prospects and stability I'll still have nearly 30 years of flying to look forward too, or failing landing a job, a damned good time trying!
Many thanks for any help / advice as i'm sure your all pretty busy and once again, hello to everyone!
Grouse
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Well, since nobody has added their 2 cents. I'll post my opinion, it is just that however and I am no financial guru.
I know for a fact that things are getting better than how they used to be in March 2009 which was when we hit the low point, it has started to pick up and I for example being ex CTC am now flexicrewing with easyJet on the Airbus. This however implies quite a difference in terms and conditions to what CTC used to do back in the day.
The economy and the airlines will certainly recover within 5 years, whether that will mean a hole in the system or not is left to be seen. It's true that there will be airlines recruiting and expanding, I know for a fact that easyJet are continuing to recruit people even through the winter, from Oxford, Parc and CTC. I've recently heard rumours about BA starting recruiting soon as well.
Fact is however that when the recession hit many pilots lost their jobs or were forced to go overseas to make ends meet and stay in the air, obviously a number of them will return to try and get a job back home, those with more experience than you will most certainly have a better chance of success in finding a job.
P2F is here to stay in my opinion, as long as there are more pilots than jobs there will be someone willing to do it, sadly there is no collective thought process and a lot of people can be offended while going to work from the RHS or LHS but the matter is that when you're 80k in debt and not flying after qualifying you'd do almost anything for a job, hell, I did almost anything and ended up forking 8k for my TR and signed up for abysmal T's and C's just to start getting the hours up.
I know for a fact that things are getting better than how they used to be in March 2009 which was when we hit the low point, it has started to pick up and I for example being ex CTC am now flexicrewing with easyJet on the Airbus. This however implies quite a difference in terms and conditions to what CTC used to do back in the day.
The economy and the airlines will certainly recover within 5 years, whether that will mean a hole in the system or not is left to be seen. It's true that there will be airlines recruiting and expanding, I know for a fact that easyJet are continuing to recruit people even through the winter, from Oxford, Parc and CTC. I've recently heard rumours about BA starting recruiting soon as well.
Fact is however that when the recession hit many pilots lost their jobs or were forced to go overseas to make ends meet and stay in the air, obviously a number of them will return to try and get a job back home, those with more experience than you will most certainly have a better chance of success in finding a job.
P2F is here to stay in my opinion, as long as there are more pilots than jobs there will be someone willing to do it, sadly there is no collective thought process and a lot of people can be offended while going to work from the RHS or LHS but the matter is that when you're 80k in debt and not flying after qualifying you'd do almost anything for a job, hell, I did almost anything and ended up forking 8k for my TR and signed up for abysmal T's and C's just to start getting the hours up.
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Thanks for the reply polo, some useful thoughts there. 8k for TR, i'm guessing that was back when times were a little more favourable, what with the FR rating and stuff being 27,000 Euros at the moment.
The only other thing I meant to ask but forgot the mention int he first post (Doh). I'm a Business and I.T teacher by trade with a background in I.T training. I don't know if anyone would have any ideas what the possibility of gaining a training type job in the aviation industry would be once i'd say got my ATPLs passed. Do you think these types of skills could be used anywhere to get in somewhere and get a bit closer to the action, so to speak!
Thanks,
Grouse
The only other thing I meant to ask but forgot the mention int he first post (Doh). I'm a Business and I.T teacher by trade with a background in I.T training. I don't know if anyone would have any ideas what the possibility of gaining a training type job in the aviation industry would be once i'd say got my ATPLs passed. Do you think these types of skills could be used anywhere to get in somewhere and get a bit closer to the action, so to speak!
Thanks,
Grouse
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 39
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No, 8k for the TR was with CTC's flexicrew deal and I paid that in April this year, that also includes my accommodation, the actual cost of the TR was around £6900.
As for training in the aviation industry, well, if you're talking about groundschool type of training then you'd obviously need to do your ATPL's and nail them with good scores. That is not a difficult proposition if you use Bristol GS and do the question bank, most of my course averaged 90% or more. After that you could see if any schools are looking for teachers.
If you want to be closer to the action as an IT guy then your chances are a lot better now. easy have a configuration manager position open, and not so long ago they had something related to their website as well, best is to look at their own careers website.
As for training in the aviation industry, well, if you're talking about groundschool type of training then you'd obviously need to do your ATPL's and nail them with good scores. That is not a difficult proposition if you use Bristol GS and do the question bank, most of my course averaged 90% or more. After that you could see if any schools are looking for teachers.
If you want to be closer to the action as an IT guy then your chances are a lot better now. easy have a configuration manager position open, and not so long ago they had something related to their website as well, best is to look at their own careers website.
