Newbe needs advise

[SwedePilot]

Hello everybody!
I'm happy to have found this forum, which seems a lot more serious than many others. Since, as the name of the site, there is many rumors I turn to you guys trying to find some light in the tunnel... I'm a newbe, just about to finish my ATPL theory and wondering a lot about how I'm going to start searching jobs. Tried to talk to a few people but I don't get any clarity about one thing;

When a company are searching for new F/Os, and they are searching for those with a TR and several hours on the type, Is there a chance for me if I apply for the job without the TR and/or the hours on the type or am I just going to irritate the one taking care of the resumes?

When I'm done I'm going to have just the certificates and time it takes to complete the proffessional pilot program in Europe.

Some people think I should apply anyway and says that they just put out those requirements to hold down the numbers of applicants. "Its more about who you are than how many hours you got".

I also wonder how you have experienced companies attitude against woman pilots. Have you seen any quotation? Or is it harder for a woman?

I'm really happy for advices and stories from you more experienced people. I know that I cant expect a job right away, not even in years, so those kind of negative things I'm all aware of And do not need more of them. Just simply give me some of your experience, please!

Thank you.

[topper3]

When a company are searching for new F/Os, and they are searching for those with a TR and several hours on the type, Is there a chance for me if I apply for the job without the TR and/or the hours on the type or am I just going to irritate the one taking care of the resumes?

Depends on who you apply to. Some might argue that having a TR makes you more employable but it is also a huge financial risk with no guarantee of a job. I wouldn't rule out applying just because you dont have a type rating unless the job requirements specifically say that you need one. I personally became a flight instructor and did my IR after I had over 1000hrs total time, then applied for airline jobs. I was flying a small turboprops within 4 months.

I also wonder how you have experienced companies attitude against woman pilots. Have you seen any quotation? Or is it harder for a woman?

Should make no difference at all. Plenty of female pilots where I work flying 737s.

Best of luck!

[Bealzebub]

When a company are searching for new F/Os, and they are searching for those with a TR and several hours on the type, Is there a chance for me if I apply for the job without the TR and/or the hours on the type or am I just going to irritate the one taking care of the resumes?

There isn't much searching to be done when the labour markets are awash with experienced pilots that may be looking for work as a result of redundancy from failed companies, or the end of the increasing number of fixed short term contracts of employment. Then add to this the normal mix of military pilots transitioning to civilian employment and those employed pilots looking for new, improved or more stable employment opportunities.

If airlines stipulate a level of experience required, it will be the Minimum level of experience required. It won't be several hours, it will usually be hundreds or indeed thousands of hours experience, because for an employed airline pilot a thousand hours on type roughly translates into 14-20 months in chronological terms.

Those companies that recruit cadet entry level pilots usually do so from affiliated integrated programmes of training in conjunction with a particular training establishment. These offer prospects, but certainly no guarantee of employment. Once again the queue for these programmes stretches around the block and over the horizon, despite contributory costs of near six figure sums, and risks that usually fall firmly on the applicant.

There are a few companies that offer provisional "self employment" to people who are prepared to finance themselves through (usually) affiliated type rating courses. This is a pond so stacked with fish, that the companies only need to hold out their net, and 50 fish will jump into it readily. Needless to say this level of supply has a very depressing effect on the price paid for the produce. All of these fish have a limited shelf life, and that life is determined by the currency and recency of their licences and ratings. However there is nothing preventing anybody with the sizeable entrance fee from jumping into this pond. Be aware you are much more likely to be eaten by the other fish than being selected for the masters table.

Applying for a job without the required experience will not irritate anybody. Those charged with recruitment will have secretaries that simply sort out a pile of applications to put forward in accordance with those requirements. Those applications that do not meet this first stage criteria, will result in a significantly larger pile than those that do. There is an established protocol for this pile, it is normal, expected, and will not cause any irritation at all.

This isn't what so many people on these forums refer to as "negativity" it is simply the way it has always been, coupled with the reality of a lot of people with high expectations chasing the bottom of a poorly regulated (in some quarters) marketplace.

So what do you do?

Difficult, because there are limited opportunities in a very overcrowded segment of the market.

The name of the game is survival. That will depend on knowledge, preparedness, good planning and luck.

By all means apply for anything and everything, but also set realistic and achievable goals. Treat your career path as a ladder where you can take breaks as you climb in order to rest and re-group and re-plan as necessary. What employment could you find (aviation or non aviation related) that would enable you to preserve those licences and ratings, if on aquisition airlines are not beating a path to your door (and they wont be!) Research those companies that interest you in the markets that are realistically open to you and find out what their requirements and normal applicant profiles actually are. Have contingency plans in place for everything. Be flexible, realistic and focused.

Being a woman in the vast majority of markets you are likely to be involved in is not going be an issue as regards "atitude" at all. In most countries that sort of prejudice is legislatively unlawful, and in any event is largely consigned to history. Many of the senior pilots, recuiters, human resources people involved in this process will be women, and even where that is not the case, there is strong desire in most companies to see applicants presenting, that better represent the demographic cross sections of society as a whole.

That is honest advice but you should never discount luck. In small measure or large, good or bad, it often plays its part in most peoples achievements and opportunities. Unfortunetaly some people seem to rely on it to such a dissproportionate extent, that they fail to plan or adapt to any scenario where it doesn't work in their favour. They are usually the ones bleating about "negativity" or refusing to believe or listen to anything that presents a challenge to their often overly simplistic viewpoint.

Good luck!