New Thomas Cook cadet scheme
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I can see how it would benefit BE. They get a number of high quality pilots whose dash type ratings are paid for by TCX and whose salaries are paid by TCX for the 2 years they are at BE. How can that not be a good thing for them?
I agree it might not be of any benefit to existing Flybe crew but since when has that been a consideration for penny pinching airline executives when they are making these kind of decisions.
I agree it might not be of any benefit to existing Flybe crew but since when has that been a consideration for penny pinching airline executives when they are making these kind of decisions.
Last edited by Flaperon75; 20th May 2010 at 16:22.
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A group of paying Q400 students for FlyBE's new type rating center is a plus and free FOs for two year's is a plus. The hard part will be keeping their feet on the ground so to speak since they will all know there's a big shiny jet waiting for them. The scheme is loaded with opportunity for resentment from FlyBE's other mentored cadet FOs if this lot act haughty or cliqueish. If BE are smart, they'll send them to different bases.
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and what happens if students dont cut the mustard at BE to make the reqd standard for the big shiny jets??!! will they continue on at BE until such time at a loss to TC or will they be horsed out with a bill for the rating.. i dont think keeping them apart will be an issue as they will only meet briefly on the ramp from time to time..
it sounds like a great scheme for the lucky choosen few, BE and also for the standard of future crew in TC..
just hurry up and launch it lads....
it sounds like a great scheme for the lucky choosen few, BE and also for the standard of future crew in TC..
just hurry up and launch it lads....
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What on earth makes you think that Flybe operate to, or accept, a lower standard than TC?
If they're not up to scratch then I'm pretty sure they'll be shown the door in fairly short order, regardless who picks up the tab.
If they're not up to scratch then I'm pretty sure they'll be shown the door in fairly short order, regardless who picks up the tab.
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Exactly, just because Flybe don't operate big jets doesn't mean that they are a substandard airline with lower standards. I don't think TC will treat Flybe as a holding pool, more like a judicator as to whether the pilots are good enough for a piloting career at all; not just whether they are good enough for TC. If they are not good enough for TC, they shouldn't be good enough for Flybe.
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OK, time for someone to maybe put a few facts to all of this. I work for TCX. I was AIH/MYT before and a direct product of the then Airtours Cadet Training Scheme. In essence, this scheme is almost exactly the same. Maybe it's because both the present TCX DFO and CP (ex BA Citiexpress) have direct experience of how the previous scheme worked.
All candidates were screened and interviewed. Yes, there was and still is a financial element and all candidates had to be able to meet all of the criteria, BUT it is a guaranteed job at the end with TCX. Flybe get a free FO for 2 years and I can categorically state that during my time at BRAL/Citiexpress we were treated EXACTLY the same as any other resident FO. However we were not part of the BRAL seniority list or able to go for promotion. We were listed on the AIH seniority list and paid by AIH. To my knowledge there was never any resentment, we even met up with some old faces when we returned to MYT, as it had become.
What TCX get is a capable FO, with experience and able to pass their jet type rating. They have a knowledge of how the line works and a degree of commerciality. Sometimes that's a bit lacking in 200 hour cadets. They can complete their jet line training in 14 sectors rather than the 40 or so we have had in the past.
What Flybe get is a capable FO, paid for by TCX. They do not have to worry about where to put them as they can be based anywhere. They do not have to worry about their career progression and they can map exactly when they will leave.
All of the folks that wish to pour scorn on the scheme need to look long and hard at what else is on offer - precious little. Those that pass, and eventually join us will have a great time, both at Flybe and TCX. If I won the lottery, I'd go back to turboprops tomorrow, and I'm the skipper of one of those 'big, ever so difficult to fly, shiny jets'. It's not half as much fun!!!
At the risk of being deluged, feel free to PM me for more info. I know little more than has been made public but would be happy to add any more detail people may want.
Regards
Flyinthesky
All candidates were screened and interviewed. Yes, there was and still is a financial element and all candidates had to be able to meet all of the criteria, BUT it is a guaranteed job at the end with TCX. Flybe get a free FO for 2 years and I can categorically state that during my time at BRAL/Citiexpress we were treated EXACTLY the same as any other resident FO. However we were not part of the BRAL seniority list or able to go for promotion. We were listed on the AIH seniority list and paid by AIH. To my knowledge there was never any resentment, we even met up with some old faces when we returned to MYT, as it had become.
What TCX get is a capable FO, with experience and able to pass their jet type rating. They have a knowledge of how the line works and a degree of commerciality. Sometimes that's a bit lacking in 200 hour cadets. They can complete their jet line training in 14 sectors rather than the 40 or so we have had in the past.
What Flybe get is a capable FO, paid for by TCX. They do not have to worry about where to put them as they can be based anywhere. They do not have to worry about their career progression and they can map exactly when they will leave.
All of the folks that wish to pour scorn on the scheme need to look long and hard at what else is on offer - precious little. Those that pass, and eventually join us will have a great time, both at Flybe and TCX. If I won the lottery, I'd go back to turboprops tomorrow, and I'm the skipper of one of those 'big, ever so difficult to fly, shiny jets'. It's not half as much fun!!!
At the risk of being deluged, feel free to PM me for more info. I know little more than has been made public but would be happy to add any more detail people may want.
Regards
Flyinthesky
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Thanks for some real information flyinthesky, can I just ask what the financial element in your scheme was? Is it a large security bond or just some smaller payments for accomodation etc. I am guessing it is not a full sponsorship.
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flyinthesky,
Is this scheme definitely going ahead, as I have spoke to other guys based at manchester that work for Thomas Cook that have heard nothing up to now. If it is going ahead has there been date set for when the scheme will open?
Thanks greyb33
Is this scheme definitely going ahead, as I have spoke to other guys based at manchester that work for Thomas Cook that have heard nothing up to now. If it is going ahead has there been date set for when the scheme will open?
Thanks greyb33
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The scheme has been approved at board level. Timescales are unknown to me but the names of the interview/mentoring panel are. So unless a radical decision is made to cancel at late notice then I would not see anything changing.
As for the financial elements. This is not public yet, and still being worked upon. The scheme of old (MYT) had the candidate paying for all costs upto the end of s/e training. The company then picked up everything from m/e training onwards. You were bonded for 5 years on a reduced salary which paid back the bond.
I'm not going to guestimate figures because training costs have changed so much since I went through Cabair!
As for the financial elements. This is not public yet, and still being worked upon. The scheme of old (MYT) had the candidate paying for all costs upto the end of s/e training. The company then picked up everything from m/e training onwards. You were bonded for 5 years on a reduced salary which paid back the bond.
I'm not going to guestimate figures because training costs have changed so much since I went through Cabair!
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Jambone,
the previous scheme was a fixed price deal. Provided you met the companies recruitment criteria and could meet the financial obligation, then you were offered a place.
The emphasis being on getting the best candidates, not the richest ones. The whole background behind the introduction of the new TCX scheme is recognising that it benefits them to have a stream of very capable FO's coming through, who should then stay with the company long term. It is not about whos' father is richest. Previously, anyone with more flying experience than PPL would not be considered. This was so that the company could control the type/std of training each potential FO would get.
the previous scheme was a fixed price deal. Provided you met the companies recruitment criteria and could meet the financial obligation, then you were offered a place.
The emphasis being on getting the best candidates, not the richest ones. The whole background behind the introduction of the new TCX scheme is recognising that it benefits them to have a stream of very capable FO's coming through, who should then stay with the company long term. It is not about whos' father is richest. Previously, anyone with more flying experience than PPL would not be considered. This was so that the company could control the type/std of training each potential FO would get.
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I just hope they stick to how it should be done, and pick quality over the highest my-daddy-buys-me-anything bidder. Surely Thomas Cook wouldn't help Ryanair in dragging this industry down?
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when this scheme is posted to the public, do you know where it will be advertised first, so able to apply in time. i monitor thomas cook website under careers for pilots. but al this seems too good to be true and im just worried i am going to miss it
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When it goes live, I should imagine it will be advertised both on the TCX jobs website and in the back pages of Flight International.
But someone will have it on here before the ink is dry, I am sure!
But someone will have it on here before the ink is dry, I am sure!
I wonder how many of the successful candidates will have relatives or connections with TCX................
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Not sure where it will be advertised. I know internally and almost certainly FTE website.
Selection will be based on Jerez screening and then TCX will interview a pool of about 20-30 and do online numeracy/literacy and possibly MBTI/Emotional Intelligence. 8 places planned for 2010.
Basic deal - cadet pays for Jerez course, TCX pay low salary during time in Spain. Next 7 years (2 in FlyBe), cadet is paid lower salary to amortize the 2 TR's.
Selection will be based on Jerez screening and then TCX will interview a pool of about 20-30 and do online numeracy/literacy and possibly MBTI/Emotional Intelligence. 8 places planned for 2010.
Basic deal - cadet pays for Jerez course, TCX pay low salary during time in Spain. Next 7 years (2 in FlyBe), cadet is paid lower salary to amortize the 2 TR's.
Intl Cadets?
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Aye fill your boots. Its well known there is a shortage of pilots in europe.
No problems at all getting a work permit.
The converstion to JAA is a piece of piss as well only cost 10 quid. Stick you application in and give them a ring every couple off days to make sure they know your really up for the job.
No problems at all getting a work permit.
The converstion to JAA is a piece of piss as well only cost 10 quid. Stick you application in and give them a ring every couple off days to make sure they know your really up for the job.