What happened after my Pilapt assessment.
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I am going to reiterate my post from earlier in this thread. Crescentpirate: you are an idiot. An imbecile. A silly little boy who has absolutely no idea how the world works.
You seem to have chosen to completely ignore the advice (albeit in some cases vitriolic) directed at you by people who actually know what they're talking about. Some of your posts, such as the one I have quote above actually defy belief; do you actually have the first clue what the burden of £80k+ debt actually means?
To be brutally honest, I will have absolutely no sympathy for you when you're on the dole and bankrupt. If you display anything like the attitude you've shown on this thread in the real world, you will not be hired to stack shelves in Tesco, let alone fly airliners. I have every sympathy for all the innocent loved ones you drag down with you; it's not their fault that you're a selfish, arrogant little prat.
Try and actually listen to the advice of people who have been there before you: now is not the time to start training. Now is not the time to get yourself into unmanageable levels of debt. Don't be a fool.
You seem to have chosen to completely ignore the advice (albeit in some cases vitriolic) directed at you by people who actually know what they're talking about. Some of your posts, such as the one I have quote above actually defy belief; do you actually have the first clue what the burden of £80k+ debt actually means?
To be brutally honest, I will have absolutely no sympathy for you when you're on the dole and bankrupt. If you display anything like the attitude you've shown on this thread in the real world, you will not be hired to stack shelves in Tesco, let alone fly airliners. I have every sympathy for all the innocent loved ones you drag down with you; it's not their fault that you're a selfish, arrogant little prat.
Try and actually listen to the advice of people who have been there before you: now is not the time to start training. Now is not the time to get yourself into unmanageable levels of debt. Don't be a fool.
If you had actually read my previous post you would see I am listening, taking in advice. I am not fixed on the idea of starting my training. I am in two places on what to do. In all honesty, I think you need to calm down.
I notice a lot of hostility in this thread. Basically I see no need for it. I am listening, I am taking advice and I am giving my own views and opinions like you all are. I can take constructive criticisms but you are simply just being rude. I know for a fact you wouldn't speak that way to me in person so why on here?
The thing is at least I have a dream. I could be one of those teenagers whom have no career aspirations, maybe have a kid of their own and living off state benefits. I am really trying to make a life for myself here and your rudeness is not helping the situation. You do have a good point in which I previously said and yes I know you are correct. So why the hostility? Doesn't seem like good pilot material to me regardless if you fly or not.
Last edited by Crescentpirate; 16th Feb 2010 at 15:26.
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As you said you can't get the funding from the banks, you only have the collateral of £80k which is no where near enough to secure a loan the size you would need. Its not as if you can even take the risk in the first place.
If as you say, you could pay the loan back in 6 months why don't you get that money together then in 6 months time pay up front?!
I like your passion, but you should look at this logically, just because you love flying doesn't mean you can afford the intergrated training costs (which from previous posts it obvious you can't).
Good luck either way!
If as you say, you could pay the loan back in 6 months why don't you get that money together then in 6 months time pay up front?!
I like your passion, but you should look at this logically, just because you love flying doesn't mean you can afford the intergrated training costs (which from previous posts it obvious you can't).
Good luck either way!
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Yeah thats exactly right.
Everyone has just went crazy for no apparent reason as I cannot get the funding. Train now, later or whenever I do believe Integrated to be the better route. I do not wish to start a big debate, i've looked at both routes and I prefer Integrated for personal reasons.
Anybody have any ideas of where I could get finance from or potential sponsors?
If anyone wants to give me a 'its suicide' lecture, please keep it to yourself. I do know what I am doing and I do have a plan. thank you.
Everyone has just went crazy for no apparent reason as I cannot get the funding. Train now, later or whenever I do believe Integrated to be the better route. I do not wish to start a big debate, i've looked at both routes and I prefer Integrated for personal reasons.
Anybody have any ideas of where I could get finance from or potential sponsors?
If anyone wants to give me a 'its suicide' lecture, please keep it to yourself. I do know what I am doing and I do have a plan. thank you.
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Let' s give the guy a chance folks.
He at least came on here to talk about it.
Imagine all the morons who are in the "where do I sign" line, without even taking a second opinion.
I was 19 not so long ago so I can tell that I have learned alot more over the past few years then I did until I was 18.
Alot of it had to do with establishing responsibility and facing liabilities.
I always live the moment thinking that I know exactly what I'm doing at that very moment but a few years later I realise how clueless and naive I was and regret some mistakes. That' s how I learn not to repeat them again.
Life is a repeating cassette tape of learning from one' s mistakes.
Fortunately I was already taught at high school that a good bank robber doesn' t enter a bank without planning at least a second escape route. I have succesfully put that into practice until now (read the metafore).
That can' t be said of my fellow pilots who went integrated and struggle to find a job and go broke.
They are like bank robbers who were so excited about running into the bank that they forgot to think about how they would get out.
Some could get away with it by finding an escape route on the spot, many more would land in jail, losing their (financial) freedoms.
He at least came on here to talk about it.
Imagine all the morons who are in the "where do I sign" line, without even taking a second opinion.
I was 19 not so long ago so I can tell that I have learned alot more over the past few years then I did until I was 18.
Alot of it had to do with establishing responsibility and facing liabilities.
I always live the moment thinking that I know exactly what I'm doing at that very moment but a few years later I realise how clueless and naive I was and regret some mistakes. That' s how I learn not to repeat them again.
Life is a repeating cassette tape of learning from one' s mistakes.
Fortunately I was already taught at high school that a good bank robber doesn' t enter a bank without planning at least a second escape route. I have succesfully put that into practice until now (read the metafore).
That can' t be said of my fellow pilots who went integrated and struggle to find a job and go broke.
They are like bank robbers who were so excited about running into the bank that they forgot to think about how they would get out.
Some could get away with it by finding an escape route on the spot, many more would land in jail, losing their (financial) freedoms.
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Thank you John Smith
Atlantic used to do the "fugly" scheme, which from memory offered sponsorship for the CPL/IR and ATPL exams for those with a PPL already. Not sure if that's still on offer.
There's the JN Somers scholarship administered by GAPAN. That was the only fully funded, no strings attached sponsorship offered in the UK, and I'm not sure if it is being offered again.
You will not get funding from any financial institution for the full cost of an integrated course, unless you have significant security to offer.
You clearly don't know what you're doing, and quite clearly you don't have a plan.
Edit: The JN Somers Scholarship is being offered again. Details here.
There's the JN Somers scholarship administered by GAPAN. That was the only fully funded, no strings attached sponsorship offered in the UK, and I'm not sure if it is being offered again.
You will not get funding from any financial institution for the full cost of an integrated course, unless you have significant security to offer.
You clearly don't know what you're doing, and quite clearly you don't have a plan.
Edit: The JN Somers Scholarship is being offered again. Details here.
However though Mr Smith, I do have a plan as I have already mentioned. It is a shame you say I don't when nobody has taken the liberty to ask exactly what it is. Quite foolish isn't it?
Eitherway thank you for the information and thank you for sparing me the lecture of my inevitable financial doom.
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Crescent - Question: When you have got your licence and a bit of debt, what type of aircraft do you think you will fly for your first job, and roughly what wage do you anticipate?
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CrescentPirate, I'm a current airline pilot involved in airline and flight school recruitment. I'd like to try and give some useful advice that hopefully is less extreme than some of this debate!
I've traditionally been a integrated fan, partly as that's the route I took, and because until before this crisis it was the best, most direct (but most expensive) route into the major airlines. BA do not take modular graduates for instance. I've always said that if you can afford it and it your financial risks are reasonable I would recommend it (this was before the crisis when good jobs were available straight after training).
In your situation I simply cannot recommend you go down the integated route at the moment. I think your financial risk is far too high and your chances of getting a job at the end of it are too uncertain at the moment. The only way I think you should consider a integrated course at the moment is if you can get some kind of sponsorship. The only one I know of is the FlyBe / Oxford one (have you applied?). Again you may not be able to afford it but that's something you could look into. At least with that you have a good chance of a job at the end and you can plan on a known starting salary and work it out.
The other alternative is to wait and either go to uni (but this is expensive these days so maybe not a good idea financially), or get a job that is either well paid so you can save money or get a lower paid ground job at an airfield etc (or do both). You could wait to see if further sponsorships happen in the future (which they will eventually), but if you can't afford the flybe then they are unlikely to be much better. My belief is that BA will probably launch a part sponsorship scheme in the next 2-3 yrs but that may be too long to wait.
The other route is modular and in your and the industry's situation I would recommend this if you want to start now. This will take longer but will give the industry longer to recover before you need a job.
The likes of BA and ezy will probably start taking some 200hr cadets next summer /winter (although they will have to work through hold pools first) so in reality maybe 2012. I actually think that we may all be surprised at how quickly the pool of talent dries up as things have historically picked up rapidly after a recession as airlines leave it to the very last minute to be sure before recruiting, by this time they may be already a bit short of pilots, coupled with expansion. Plus only 50% or so pass selection and many who have been out of training for a while may struggle in flying assessments if not current. It's not correct to say that redundant people with thousands of hours will block 200hr cadets from getting jobs as they come from different pools and are normally recruited in tandem (many airlines like a mix of experience with 200hr cadets and older more experienced DEPs).
Also, many pilots who stayed beyond 55 will be reaching 60 in 2 yrs and so hopefully there may then start to be a more normal retirement profile from 2012 onwards.
Lastly whilst the training schools are an easy target, it is slightly unfair to dismiss the assessment you passed as sales trick. I can only talk for one major flying school but actually people do fail (around 25% outright and about another 25% have to resit parts of it). If you pass their thorough 2 day assessment then statistically you have a very good chance of passing the course (95% I think). This assessment is actually more thorough than airlines used to use to pick sponsored students when the airline was accepting the financial risk (although they picked only the very best of those that passed).
Good luck, I hope you realise your dream but I don't believe spending £100k to work for ryanair is a dream I could recommend (more a nightmare).
I've traditionally been a integrated fan, partly as that's the route I took, and because until before this crisis it was the best, most direct (but most expensive) route into the major airlines. BA do not take modular graduates for instance. I've always said that if you can afford it and it your financial risks are reasonable I would recommend it (this was before the crisis when good jobs were available straight after training).
In your situation I simply cannot recommend you go down the integated route at the moment. I think your financial risk is far too high and your chances of getting a job at the end of it are too uncertain at the moment. The only way I think you should consider a integrated course at the moment is if you can get some kind of sponsorship. The only one I know of is the FlyBe / Oxford one (have you applied?). Again you may not be able to afford it but that's something you could look into. At least with that you have a good chance of a job at the end and you can plan on a known starting salary and work it out.
The other alternative is to wait and either go to uni (but this is expensive these days so maybe not a good idea financially), or get a job that is either well paid so you can save money or get a lower paid ground job at an airfield etc (or do both). You could wait to see if further sponsorships happen in the future (which they will eventually), but if you can't afford the flybe then they are unlikely to be much better. My belief is that BA will probably launch a part sponsorship scheme in the next 2-3 yrs but that may be too long to wait.
The other route is modular and in your and the industry's situation I would recommend this if you want to start now. This will take longer but will give the industry longer to recover before you need a job.
The likes of BA and ezy will probably start taking some 200hr cadets next summer /winter (although they will have to work through hold pools first) so in reality maybe 2012. I actually think that we may all be surprised at how quickly the pool of talent dries up as things have historically picked up rapidly after a recession as airlines leave it to the very last minute to be sure before recruiting, by this time they may be already a bit short of pilots, coupled with expansion. Plus only 50% or so pass selection and many who have been out of training for a while may struggle in flying assessments if not current. It's not correct to say that redundant people with thousands of hours will block 200hr cadets from getting jobs as they come from different pools and are normally recruited in tandem (many airlines like a mix of experience with 200hr cadets and older more experienced DEPs).
Also, many pilots who stayed beyond 55 will be reaching 60 in 2 yrs and so hopefully there may then start to be a more normal retirement profile from 2012 onwards.
Lastly whilst the training schools are an easy target, it is slightly unfair to dismiss the assessment you passed as sales trick. I can only talk for one major flying school but actually people do fail (around 25% outright and about another 25% have to resit parts of it). If you pass their thorough 2 day assessment then statistically you have a very good chance of passing the course (95% I think). This assessment is actually more thorough than airlines used to use to pick sponsored students when the airline was accepting the financial risk (although they picked only the very best of those that passed).
Good luck, I hope you realise your dream but I don't believe spending £100k to work for ryanair is a dream I could recommend (more a nightmare).
