Family member advice
Join Date: May 2009
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I've had run in's with both Corsair and Betbumps on these pages,
The other thing is luck. You could be the best pilot. You could indeed be a laugh-a-minute type of 'geezer'. But if you just don't have the luck then again you may not get hired. Take all of the guys who in 2007 started mod/integrated training thinking they would have a job in the bag by 2009. Now its possible these guys may have a very long wait.
There are also some really tough stories here about how different ppruners got to the RHS. G-SXTY story in particular. fair enough he managed to get a Flybe job a month or so after training if I believe. However during his training, he got divorced, family member diagnosed with cancer. Financial troubles with training etc. And there are others stories out there too. I think another story was Pilotpete (apologies if I have go the names wrong) whose kid had a few complications and he had to stop training as well.(All stories are on here via the search).
Anyway, the reason I quoted Clanger32 is because we indeed did have a minor altercation. In my haste at the time, I was speaking up for some pilot friends of mine in low cost carriers in England who after 15-20 years of flying are seeing their T&Cs eroded due to wannabees buying a Type rating so they can go straight into a RHS of a shiny jet and work for peanuts - Thus setting a precedent for the future.
Naturally this was extremely hypocritical of me - as indeed back in 2000 I did pay for a TR (well my dad ex-pilot did). This led to a job a few weeks later flying 737-200s in the Philippines.
And this is what I mean about luck. Last week whilst walking through the beautiful Terminal 3 at Heathrow (
) I bought a Jeremy Clarkson Book. One of the stories in there was him ranting that people should accept that life is not fair and stop complaining about it. One of his analogies was that if you are born to a King and Queen, you are set up for life. But if you are born ginger to stupid parents, then you will always struggle in life. Whilst the specifics I won't agree with, the concept of luck and fair is so true in this industry.I read Corsairs reply with sadness. He could be a far better pilot than me and a personality to match. But I was the one on a stop-over in Guam in 2002 who started taking to a guy in the bar who just so happened to be the Recruitment Director at a cargo airline. This is why after 2 years on the 732, I was able to move to the 742-F before my 22nd Birthday. How did I deserve that against another guy who has sacrificed so much more than me?
At 25, I applied to a legacy carrier that also flew Cargo. I was accepted and had a start date within 3 months time. 2 month before my start date, I received a letter in the post. Apparently they had just promoted many SFOs to Captains on the 747 and A340. Therefore I was asked whether I could start 1 month early and begin training on the 747-400.
Right place at the right time.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Seriously good posts that should be selectively stickied at the top of the forum. (WWW - perhaps a rolling sticky, locked thread similar to the way the flyertalk BAEC forum does it perhaps?)
An antidote to some of the tosh previously seen from starry-eyed idealists.
An antidote to some of the tosh previously seen from starry-eyed idealists.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Thank you all for those wonderful posts. Do not think they won't help, they already had helped me! Just few months ago I still was thinking that it is not a good idea to go for a BCs, but now it is totally different. I will start Airport and Airline management course and I am so happy I will still have plenty of time to re-think everything, of course the best part is that I already can enjoy PPL. 
I would like to advice all young people wishing to start career in aviation to start with something smaller like PPL (obviously not the integrated ATPL). It is not so easy to do PPL as many you think, plus when you do it you make contacts which are one of the most important things in all careers/jobs/industries. Do the degrees, they will be useful one day (f.e pilot interview
)
Thanks one more time
I would like to advice all young people wishing to start career in aviation to start with something smaller like PPL (obviously not the integrated ATPL). It is not so easy to do PPL as many you think, plus when you do it you make contacts which are one of the most important things in all careers/jobs/industries. Do the degrees, they will be useful one day (f.e pilot interview
)Thanks one more time
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I would re-iterate betpump's latest. Luck and being in the right place at the right time does apply too. That's exactly how I got my first flying job. Interestingly it was a posting on an aviation forum. I emailed the person concerned. Later he called me. It was clear almost immediately we spoke the same language, as it were. Afterwards in a daze, I went downstairs to my wife and told her I had just been offered my first job as a pilot. It wasn't quite as I imagined it would be.
But I would never have kept the job, if I turned out to be a dodgy pilot with a personality bypass. That's how the job came available in the first place. A series of iffy pilots either personality wise or skills wise. I've met several reasonable pilots over the years who couldn't understand their lack of success. The truth was, no one liked them.
It's also fair to say you can make your own luck. It may be lucky to meet the right person in a bar in Guam. But you have to be out there in places like that to meet people, not sitting at home watching Discovery channel and dreaming. A young woman newly finished training turned up at the airfield recently, not so much looking for a job but hoping to buy time on our aircraft. We couldn't help but she left with a contact number from the boss. I've no doubt she will succeed with her very proactive attitude. She is making her own luck.
As for you Clanger thanks, if we clashed before. I can't remember but I was right and you were wrong or vice versa!
But I would never have kept the job, if I turned out to be a dodgy pilot with a personality bypass. That's how the job came available in the first place. A series of iffy pilots either personality wise or skills wise. I've met several reasonable pilots over the years who couldn't understand their lack of success. The truth was, no one liked them.
It's also fair to say you can make your own luck. It may be lucky to meet the right person in a bar in Guam. But you have to be out there in places like that to meet people, not sitting at home watching Discovery channel and dreaming. A young woman newly finished training turned up at the airfield recently, not so much looking for a job but hoping to buy time on our aircraft. We couldn't help but she left with a contact number from the boss. I've no doubt she will succeed with her very proactive attitude. She is making her own luck.
As for you Clanger thanks, if we clashed before. I can't remember but I was right and you were wrong or vice versa!
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Corsair,
I'm sure you're right. My wife constantly tells me that I'm wrong as well...
On a serious note, I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with my perspective(s) - that's what makes for a good night in the pub - how dull would life be if everyone just accepted I'm right? Argue first, THEN admit I'm right...
And the point on luck is one I fully agree with also...I'd go so far as to say that luck is by far more influential in getting that first job than any choice of training is...
I'm sure you're right. My wife constantly tells me that I'm wrong as well...
On a serious note, I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with my perspective(s) - that's what makes for a good night in the pub - how dull would life be if everyone just accepted I'm right? Argue first, THEN admit I'm right...
And the point on luck is one I fully agree with also...I'd go so far as to say that luck is by far more influential in getting that first job than any choice of training is...
Last edited by clanger32; 17th Jun 2009 at 16:26.
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Betpump5's advice can apply to so many jobs, especially:
Yet the final judgement is how you act at the “tea-party”.
Reminds me of my 2 day police officer recruitment process. After day 1 consisting of group excercises, medical etc... we're told to be in the bar for 7pm for a quiz. "Don't worry, you're not being assessed" say the recruiting team.
All bar one girl do the quiz, all very jolly, then c2200 cue: "Well, it's been a long day/had an early start etc..." and back to the accomodation.
The girl is knocking back JD & coke like it's going out of fashion, must have had 8 or 9 and had to be carried back to her room. Guess who had the 0900 interview with the Superintendent? She failed.
Yet the final judgement is how you act at the “tea-party”.
Reminds me of my 2 day police officer recruitment process. After day 1 consisting of group excercises, medical etc... we're told to be in the bar for 7pm for a quiz. "Don't worry, you're not being assessed" say the recruiting team.
All bar one girl do the quiz, all very jolly, then c2200 cue: "Well, it's been a long day/had an early start etc..." and back to the accomodation.
The girl is knocking back JD & coke like it's going out of fashion, must have had 8 or 9 and had to be carried back to her room. Guess who had the 0900 interview with the Superintendent? She failed.
