How Do I Pay For Atpl!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK.
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck with the police Dan, that's what I'm in the process of doing. Fed up with office jobs!
I've been working with the police as a part time officer since Sept last year and have loved it, doesn't ever get boring.
I've been working with the police as a part time officer since Sept last year and have loved it, doesn't ever get boring.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Secret airbase in scotland
Age: 35
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PilotDan,
Its been mentioned further back in this thread about joining the RAF. Ive always wanted to be a pilot and ive just recieved my start date for the RAF 13th May
Even though im not joining as a pilot and will be working as an aircraft technician im signing up for 9 years but will probably stay in longer as the RAF will subsidise my PPL, will subsidise further training and flying (hour building) will subsidise me getting A-Levels and a Degree, and i could possibly get a comission and try my luck at becoming a pilot for the RAF. Along the lines of money for my training im looking at saving £100 a week in a web saver ive setup exactly for this reason. I came to the realisation after getting a credit card i really dont want to go and get a loan for £30-£50k and find myself in a world of debt and possibly without a job at the end of the training were as in the RAF you get paid to learn 
Look at yourself take heed of whats going on in the world then think about getting a job, getting some life experience and getting some money behind you! I hope you make it and hope to see you in the skies one day!
Regards
Jamie R
Its been mentioned further back in this thread about joining the RAF. Ive always wanted to be a pilot and ive just recieved my start date for the RAF 13th May
Even though im not joining as a pilot and will be working as an aircraft technician im signing up for 9 years but will probably stay in longer as the RAF will subsidise my PPL, will subsidise further training and flying (hour building) will subsidise me getting A-Levels and a Degree, and i could possibly get a comission and try my luck at becoming a pilot for the RAF. Along the lines of money for my training im looking at saving £100 a week in a web saver ive setup exactly for this reason. I came to the realisation after getting a credit card i really dont want to go and get a loan for £30-£50k and find myself in a world of debt and possibly without a job at the end of the training were as in the RAF you get paid to learn Look at yourself take heed of whats going on in the world then think about getting a job, getting some life experience and getting some money behind you! I hope you make it and hope to see you in the skies one day!
Regards
Jamie R
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Desert but shortly to be HK!)
Age: 49
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank God.... at last.... someone that is 19 years of age and is showing wisdom above and beyond his years!
Jamie R....
I am sure there will be times in the RAF when you will wonder why you went down the route you did but I would wager when you are an old fella looking back on your life you will thank the stars about the decisions you are making now.
I tip my hat to you sir and good luck with your career.
Jamie R....
I am sure there will be times in the RAF when you will wonder why you went down the route you did but I would wager when you are an old fella looking back on your life you will thank the stars about the decisions you are making now.
I tip my hat to you sir and good luck with your career.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The final word
So in summary (for the noobs amongst us) what is the best advice for initiating our pilot careers?
In short:
Which school(s)?
Which course?
How much to save/borrow?
Recommended routes?
Recommended additional training/activities in the interim?
When? (Time lines)
Have i missed anything?!
For your reference, I am a 23 year old currently working in the financial services in London. I have a degree in Business and spent 2.5 years in a UAS flying Grob Tutors (c.60 hours flight time inc 10 solo). I have managed to save circa 25k and can access an additional 30k if need be (I will!).
thanks!
In short:
Which school(s)?
Which course?
How much to save/borrow?
Recommended routes?
Recommended additional training/activities in the interim?
When? (Time lines)
Have i missed anything?!
For your reference, I am a 23 year old currently working in the financial services in London. I have a degree in Business and spent 2.5 years in a UAS flying Grob Tutors (c.60 hours flight time inc 10 solo). I have managed to save circa 25k and can access an additional 30k if need be (I will!).
thanks!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Desert but shortly to be HK!)
Age: 49
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My advice is for the next 2 years stay in your financial services job and save another 20k then think about your training.
Or with your UAS experience why not have a crack at the RAF (think you are still young enough)
Or with your UAS experience why not have a crack at the RAF (think you are still young enough)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Grass Strip Basher,
Unfortunately I am just over 23 and 11 months... (what a silly rule!?)
RN or AAC i guess...
p.s. i doubt very much i will make anywhere near that much in the city these next few years...!!
2 years - to kill/save...
schools/courses/added training?!
Thanks
Unfortunately I am just over 23 and 11 months... (what a silly rule!?)
RN or AAC i guess...
p.s. i doubt very much i will make anywhere near that much in the city these next few years...!!
2 years - to kill/save...
schools/courses/added training?!
Thanks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well one thing is for certain:
You will be making a flat zero in aviation unless something changes.
Get a real career. Not this pathetic excuse for one!
And what about another £25k for a type rating, and another £30k for line training?
But you will be rewarded with..........................unemployment!
It's great eh?
You will be making a flat zero in aviation unless something changes.
Get a real career. Not this pathetic excuse for one!
And what about another £25k for a type rating, and another £30k for line training?
But you will be rewarded with..........................unemployment!
It's great eh?
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow Kelly,
Thats pretty damning!
Unfortunately for me (and most of us on here) this is our passion and i am focused on chasing it!
We need to remember that when the good times come back (and it always does) there will be alot of opportunities for those dedicated enough to (for want of another city expression) hang in there.
Fortunately i also speak an eastern language so i may be well positioned to transfer my skills/career in the emerging east...
I am pretty sure i want to train in the UK though as i genuinely believe the quality to be of a superior standard hence i will not entertain the idea of travelling to Africa/Aus to study...
Thats pretty damning!
Unfortunately for me (and most of us on here) this is our passion and i am focused on chasing it!
We need to remember that when the good times come back (and it always does) there will be alot of opportunities for those dedicated enough to (for want of another city expression) hang in there.
Fortunately i also speak an eastern language so i may be well positioned to transfer my skills/career in the emerging east...
I am pretty sure i want to train in the UK though as i genuinely believe the quality to be of a superior standard hence i will not entertain the idea of travelling to Africa/Aus to study...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL450
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your determination is admirable but I could not over emphasise doing your homework first.
All of us have been driven by that passion to fly but things have changed a great deal.
It simply makes NO economic sense whatsoever to come into this industry anymore.
An endless expectation to fund the operation you work for, only for bad pay, bad conditions and real abuse from your employer that just would not be tolerated in any other civilised industry.
And that is assuming you find employment here. Thousands cannot.
It is precisely "wanabees" desire to fly that is being exploited and it will only get worse. At the end of the day it is a job.
I don't have children, (thanks to every relationship being destroyed by aviation), but if I did I would be devastated if they decided to waste their lives on this now.
Get a real career, earn shed loads of money elsewhere and buy your own aircraft and you will enjoy your flying. The politics of this business have killed any enjoyment for me and many others. Not to mention I spent 1/2 a house to put myself through this!
Anyone know a good psychiatrist?
All of us have been driven by that passion to fly but things have changed a great deal.
It simply makes NO economic sense whatsoever to come into this industry anymore.
An endless expectation to fund the operation you work for, only for bad pay, bad conditions and real abuse from your employer that just would not be tolerated in any other civilised industry.
And that is assuming you find employment here. Thousands cannot.
It is precisely "wanabees" desire to fly that is being exploited and it will only get worse. At the end of the day it is a job.
I don't have children, (thanks to every relationship being destroyed by aviation), but if I did I would be devastated if they decided to waste their lives on this now.
Get a real career, earn shed loads of money elsewhere and buy your own aircraft and you will enjoy your flying. The politics of this business have killed any enjoyment for me and many others. Not to mention I spent 1/2 a house to put myself through this!
Anyone know a good psychiatrist?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jamier - nice on on joining the RAF, get involved in RAFGSA gliding, and get posted to Halton at the RAFGSA center, the guys there are earning 30k to teach gliding and fly tugs, they are getting 100s of hrs for free whilst still earning a good wage and getting engineering qualifications for civvy street as well! A few of them are going to do ATPL route.
To everyone else, save save save. I work 7 days a week, study every night. It is possible (96% average in first 8 exams). If you dont get a job, but you have come out with no debt, you have given it your all and when your 80 yrs old on your death bed you will know you have given it a go.
Yes its dire out there, but so are most industries at the moment. But its not worth it if you are planning to get a loan to do it.
To everyone else, save save save. I work 7 days a week, study every night. It is possible (96% average in first 8 exams). If you dont get a job, but you have come out with no debt, you have given it your all and when your 80 yrs old on your death bed you will know you have given it a go.
Yes its dire out there, but so are most industries at the moment. But its not worth it if you are planning to get a loan to do it.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great advice -
So in essence if i decided to go ahead with a modular part time course through OAA over the next year or so (self funded) then when the green shoots of recovery appear go ahead and step into full flight school - that would be a viable route?
Would people generally rate CTC or OAA as good value, career enabling schools?
Is doing a PPL in the interim worth while?
So in essence if i decided to go ahead with a modular part time course through OAA over the next year or so (self funded) then when the green shoots of recovery appear go ahead and step into full flight school - that would be a viable route?
Would people generally rate CTC or OAA as good value, career enabling schools?
Is doing a PPL in the interim worth while?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK.
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stay away from OAAs modular course, it's too expensive and gives you pretty much no benefit from other schools. People have posted a number of times suggesting you get no help whatsoever is getting a job and it's over priced.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: up a gumtree
Age: 53
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jamier. By subsidising your flying do you mean flying in the RAFFCA flying clubs? There is one on most on the large flying bases and they are still much cheaper than civvy schools for service people. The clubs at Waddington and Kinloss are probably the best if you get yourself posted there.
The money that you are given for self improvement (ELC) doesn't kick in until you've done 6 years and must be job related unless you are in your last 2 years of service, so as a techie you won't be able to use them for flying training.
Glider tugging is a good way to build hrs, but best to get the PPL, night rating and IMC also. If you are looking to switch to Pilot, its all about timing and the 6hrs aptitude tests.
The money that you are given for self improvement (ELC) doesn't kick in until you've done 6 years and must be job related unless you are in your last 2 years of service, so as a techie you won't be able to use them for flying training.
Glider tugging is a good way to build hrs, but best to get the PPL, night rating and IMC also. If you are looking to switch to Pilot, its all about timing and the 6hrs aptitude tests.
Last edited by tropicalfridge; 27th Mar 2009 at 08:09.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good ol'USA
Hi,
This is mainly aimed for FOD but more than valid for Dan.
I was in exactly the same position as FOD with UAS EFT behind me a degree and some money in the bank. I had tried numerous times before my 24th birthday for the RAF, and with an offer as a nav I decided civvy (my apt score of 120 was considered too low, so this being the same test cut out possibility of RN).
I went off to America and signed up on a course in Florida, at a place we used to joke was the Walmart of flying. I signed up for a 'pro course' including multi private, sing/multi comm, IFR, CFI, CFII, MEI. With the offer of a job instructing if I was any good at the end. I finished the course with 230 hours and got a job instructing. I left after 2 years(visa expired) with 900 hrs under my belt and a lot of good memories.
I now work in Africa and have lived here for 3 years flying all sorts of planes. I am not particularly interested in the airlines.
Moving onto my point, I signed a contract for all of the above training for 29kUSD at the time about 14.5k sterling. It came with housing for 3 months as well. It took me six months to get all my tickets and after that I was earning 1.5k per month as an instructor to live on. So all in all I spent with living expenses and incidentals about 20k sterling on my training. I now have 2500 hrs PIC in multi's, turbine and jet. However, if your aim is to get into a big shiny airliner in JAA land quickly this might not be for you. I still have expensive conversions if/when I want to do that.
The course where I went to school I believe is now 38k USD. I recon your 25K sterling would pay for that, if you started the course now you could have 1000hrs under your belt in 2 years when the visa runs out. Just in time for some quick JAA conversions and for the industry to be on the upturn.
You have 2 years to kill so kill it on the beach and airport in Florida, spend the 25k you have with no need to borrow more. If you want any more info on this school or the way I did it send me a PM.
Cheers
This is mainly aimed for FOD but more than valid for Dan.
I was in exactly the same position as FOD with UAS EFT behind me a degree and some money in the bank. I had tried numerous times before my 24th birthday for the RAF, and with an offer as a nav I decided civvy (my apt score of 120 was considered too low, so this being the same test cut out possibility of RN).
I went off to America and signed up on a course in Florida, at a place we used to joke was the Walmart of flying. I signed up for a 'pro course' including multi private, sing/multi comm, IFR, CFI, CFII, MEI. With the offer of a job instructing if I was any good at the end. I finished the course with 230 hours and got a job instructing. I left after 2 years(visa expired) with 900 hrs under my belt and a lot of good memories.
I now work in Africa and have lived here for 3 years flying all sorts of planes. I am not particularly interested in the airlines.
Moving onto my point, I signed a contract for all of the above training for 29kUSD at the time about 14.5k sterling. It came with housing for 3 months as well. It took me six months to get all my tickets and after that I was earning 1.5k per month as an instructor to live on. So all in all I spent with living expenses and incidentals about 20k sterling on my training. I now have 2500 hrs PIC in multi's, turbine and jet. However, if your aim is to get into a big shiny airliner in JAA land quickly this might not be for you. I still have expensive conversions if/when I want to do that.
The course where I went to school I believe is now 38k USD. I recon your 25K sterling would pay for that, if you started the course now you could have 1000hrs under your belt in 2 years when the visa runs out. Just in time for some quick JAA conversions and for the industry to be on the upturn
.You have 2 years to kill so kill it on the beach and airport in Florida, spend the 25k you have with no need to borrow more. If you want any more info on this school or the way I did it send me a PM.
Cheers
Last edited by SLIPANDSKID; 27th Mar 2009 at 09:19.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Preduk
I have no experience of OAA or CTC. But as a hard nosed retail merchandiser my gut instinct is no they are not good value. You are buying a brand and marketing. I am sure during good times they have contacts and perhaps get people interviews, but when no one is hiring that is worthless and you will be jobless along with the modular guys that spent half the money they charge. We all end up with the same license, all have to sit an IR test with a CAA examiner.
For example, their ground school distance learning comes in at nearly 3k when you add all the complusory brush up elements. Go to CATS spend 1k for the whole lot. Thats what I am doing and still averaging 96% pass mark, so CATS cant be that bad then eh!
Bring it back on thread for the next 2-3 yrs people that go integrated are mental and want heads tested. Go modular, work and save and come out on the other side debt free and be proud of the hard work you put in getting the blue book.
UAV
I have no experience of OAA or CTC. But as a hard nosed retail merchandiser my gut instinct is no they are not good value. You are buying a brand and marketing. I am sure during good times they have contacts and perhaps get people interviews, but when no one is hiring that is worthless and you will be jobless along with the modular guys that spent half the money they charge. We all end up with the same license, all have to sit an IR test with a CAA examiner.
For example, their ground school distance learning comes in at nearly 3k when you add all the complusory brush up elements. Go to CATS spend 1k for the whole lot. Thats what I am doing and still averaging 96% pass mark, so CATS cant be that bad then eh!
Bring it back on thread for the next 2-3 yrs people that go integrated are mental and want heads tested. Go modular, work and save and come out on the other side debt free and be proud of the hard work you put in getting the blue book.
UAV
RAF flying scholarship (free PPL), NCO aircrew (more cheap flying), modular/self study, small turbo-prop, large turbo-prop, A319.
Still in 30's(just) airline job, no debts and loads of different types of flying.
I wouldn't have done it any other way (maybe uni/UAS and a better shot at RAF Pilot).
When I meet all these 22 year olds starting on the airbus with £80,000 debt my heart sinks. I can't imagine how they will feel in 20 years time doing the same job (probably with lower T/Cs) and only just able to start enjoying a good lifestyle (house/family/holidays etc)
If you don't fancy the services lots of guys start on the ramp/ops/engineering etc, good for contacts and looks good on the CV!
Enjoy - you have it all ahead (I'm kind of jealous!)
rgds
WM
Still in 30's(just) airline job, no debts and loads of different types of flying.
I wouldn't have done it any other way (maybe uni/UAS and a better shot at RAF Pilot).
When I meet all these 22 year olds starting on the airbus with £80,000 debt my heart sinks. I can't imagine how they will feel in 20 years time doing the same job (probably with lower T/Cs) and only just able to start enjoying a good lifestyle (house/family/holidays etc)
If you don't fancy the services lots of guys start on the ramp/ops/engineering etc, good for contacts and looks good on the CV!
Enjoy - you have it all ahead (I'm kind of jealous!)
rgds
WM