What's wrong about having a CPL/ME/IR
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I really don't get this "bad habits" thing.
So a CPL with over 250 hours will have picked many bad habits to make him not attractive to the airline. The same guy becomes a FI, with 1500 hours and now he's attractive and hasn't got any bad habits ?
If someone's been through 250 hours, a CPL test (which I believe is carried out to the same standard whether you are ab initio, or modular or training with the local farm strip
) sure he's reached the standard excpected by the CAA examiner, and would assume he's equally qualified as someone who started flying last week and has done an intensive ab initio course !
The bad habits thing is probably an excuse to cut the modular students out and keep monopoly between airlines and certain flying schools.
So a CPL with over 250 hours will have picked many bad habits to make him not attractive to the airline. The same guy becomes a FI, with 1500 hours and now he's attractive and hasn't got any bad habits ?
If someone's been through 250 hours, a CPL test (which I believe is carried out to the same standard whether you are ab initio, or modular or training with the local farm strip
) sure he's reached the standard excpected by the CAA examiner, and would assume he's equally qualified as someone who started flying last week and has done an intensive ab initio course !The bad habits thing is probably an excuse to cut the modular students out and keep monopoly between airlines and certain flying schools.
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No what I think is you have the choice. FR is not the only one I guess.
I did not pay a tr for my job, but you have to be patient... few youngs are patient.
it was an example, I have just wrote that "no one" is a little bit optimistic really! and that's the truth.
I did not pay a tr for my job, but you have to be patient... few youngs are patient.
it was an example, I have just wrote that "no one" is a little bit optimistic really! and that's the truth.
Last edited by VNA Lotus; 22nd Jun 2010 at 09:41.
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In my own opinion i think if you approached an airline with cpl/meir you've already saved them close to £80k on training a zero hr pilot. If i were an operator it will still be cheaper to take you train you even if it means an extra session or two in the sim.
I know some here wont see it that way but thats the way i see it.
I know some here wont see it that way but thats the way i see it.
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I think the idea you wouldn't want to take on a CPL/IR guy with 2000 hours because they will have 2000 hours of bad habits is a load of rubbish. The point is that they have 2000 hours of experience.
Lets look at the typical profile of somebody who has gone down the self improver route. After getting the CPL/IR they most likely took the FI course, at then end of which they had to take a Flight Test with an FIE. They have to show they can fly well, teach well and are made of "the right stuff" so to speak.
They then set about Instruction, under supervision of an experienced FI to start with, and then became a full FI. Almost certainly they then undertook training to teach for the Night Rating, and then Applied IF, which would have involved another flight test with an FIE.
Maybe after 1000 hours Instructing, which for some may have included teaching CPL (which means they have to be deemed suitable by the authority to Instruct for the CPL), our self improver then gets a position with a air taxi operator flying Navajo's and Chieftains for example, maybe going onto fly a Titan if he is lucky. Our self improver is going to have to undertake some form Line Training and an OPC/LPC with the air taxi operator before he/she can start carrying the punters/freight as Pilot In Command. And the LPC/OPC check will need to be done at regular intervals during his/her time at said Operator. During this time he is flying single pilot IFR, in the airways, and making Instrument approaches, probably sometimes down to minima, in aircraft with very little automation compared to a modern airliner.
So perhaps after 4 or 5 years flying experience our self emprover sends his CV to a regional turboprop operator or perhaps a charter airline. Do you seriously think the recruiters are going to through it out because "he's got 2000 hours of bad habbits?"
If you have ever been to a BALPA employment conference and talk to the people who do the recruiting for many companies hours are important and with only 200 you are really going to struggle to find a company that is going to take you on.
The 200 hour integrated route works fine for people who are sponsored by an airline or under one of the mentored type schemes. If you choose to do modular or go integrated but not under scheme with an airline you stand very little chance with 200 hours of finding employment. Once you start adding hours to the logbook you become more employable.
Lets look at the typical profile of somebody who has gone down the self improver route. After getting the CPL/IR they most likely took the FI course, at then end of which they had to take a Flight Test with an FIE. They have to show they can fly well, teach well and are made of "the right stuff" so to speak.
They then set about Instruction, under supervision of an experienced FI to start with, and then became a full FI. Almost certainly they then undertook training to teach for the Night Rating, and then Applied IF, which would have involved another flight test with an FIE.
Maybe after 1000 hours Instructing, which for some may have included teaching CPL (which means they have to be deemed suitable by the authority to Instruct for the CPL), our self improver then gets a position with a air taxi operator flying Navajo's and Chieftains for example, maybe going onto fly a Titan if he is lucky. Our self improver is going to have to undertake some form Line Training and an OPC/LPC with the air taxi operator before he/she can start carrying the punters/freight as Pilot In Command. And the LPC/OPC check will need to be done at regular intervals during his/her time at said Operator. During this time he is flying single pilot IFR, in the airways, and making Instrument approaches, probably sometimes down to minima, in aircraft with very little automation compared to a modern airliner.
So perhaps after 4 or 5 years flying experience our self emprover sends his CV to a regional turboprop operator or perhaps a charter airline. Do you seriously think the recruiters are going to through it out because "he's got 2000 hours of bad habbits?"
If you have ever been to a BALPA employment conference and talk to the people who do the recruiting for many companies hours are important and with only 200 you are really going to struggle to find a company that is going to take you on.
The 200 hour integrated route works fine for people who are sponsored by an airline or under one of the mentored type schemes. If you choose to do modular or go integrated but not under scheme with an airline you stand very little chance with 200 hours of finding employment. Once you start adding hours to the logbook you become more employable.
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I think the idea you wouldn't want to take on a CPL/IR guy with 2000 hours because they will have 2000 hours of bad habits is a load of rubbish.
2000 hours is better than 200 if they have been flown according to a good standard, used to learn airmanship, situation awareness, thinking on your feet, sorting out/dealing with the unexpected, practice of good CRM etc... This is most of the time the case but not always.
Finally 2000 hours will make a difference for most jobs in a certain market state (ie when the requirements is for a certain level of experience or when times are bad) but not that much for others. Airlines such as my previous employer had guys joining with 250 hours (not cadets), others like me with 2000 hours (bush, commuter, and other type of flying) and finally guys with 10000 hours on all kind of medium to heavies. All on the same day of joining, on the same (Boeing) aircraft. Worked fine for all of us with only occasional differences. It was a very "standard" driven airline with a very good training set up, topped up by a long experience in the industry.
Today, if I was an airline flying large Jets and recruiting people and if I could only interview 1 person out of two. One with 1000 hours TT including 500 hours with people like Flybe, Easy and the other one with 2000 hours spent in a C152, I would go for the less houred guy. He might turn out to be rubbish but overall I would have more chance with him and since hiring people is always a bit of gamble, I would be trying to minimise the risks.
If I need more people then it is a different story as all sorts of background can be very healthy too.
Overall though, there is no doubt that the more experienced you are, the easier it is to get a job. Having been there and done that, from years to get my very first commercial job (I do not include instructing or towing), it only took me days to get another one each time after.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0215; 10th Dec 2008 at 08:30.
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When does Etihad need Pilots?
I agree it is strange that Etihad do not seem keen to take on qualified and experienced flight crew. However, one though that occurred to me...
Etihad has set its sights on being the number one operator out of the middle East, and plans to expand its current network greatly over years to come. They have placed huge orders with both Boeing and Airbus, and it have shown no signs of letting up. A lot of these aircraft will not be on the scene foe at least another 2 years, indeed some are still very much in the design phase, i.e. A350 XWB. Perhaps Etihad has all the pilots it needs for its current capacity, buyt realized that it will need a lot more in the mid to long term, ans as such they have decided to invest in creating a workforce that has been groomed just the way they want it, to ensure that they can achieve their goal of being the very best.
Perhaps once the Etihad fleet begins to expand at an increasing rate, there will be more oppurtunities for qualified pilots, as they will have the aircraft for them to fly...
Thats my 2 cents anyway!
RK
Etihad has set its sights on being the number one operator out of the middle East, and plans to expand its current network greatly over years to come. They have placed huge orders with both Boeing and Airbus, and it have shown no signs of letting up. A lot of these aircraft will not be on the scene foe at least another 2 years, indeed some are still very much in the design phase, i.e. A350 XWB. Perhaps Etihad has all the pilots it needs for its current capacity, buyt realized that it will need a lot more in the mid to long term, ans as such they have decided to invest in creating a workforce that has been groomed just the way they want it, to ensure that they can achieve their goal of being the very best.
Perhaps once the Etihad fleet begins to expand at an increasing rate, there will be more oppurtunities for qualified pilots, as they will have the aircraft for them to fly...
Thats my 2 cents anyway!
RK
