Open Skies possibly starting a sponsorship scheme
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Open Skies possibly starting a sponsorship scheme
From the open lies website:
http://flyopenskies.com/wp-content/u...apr-08-v6x.pdf
Cat c : A cadet entry pilot who has joined on the openlies pilot sponsored program. The salary reflects the deduction made by OpenLies to repay the pilot's ab-initio training loan.
Could be interesting once the whole BALPA / BA mess is sorted out - although provided BALPA win this would be hard to see why the cadet program would be to openlies and not BA mainline. Cadets starting on long-haul would be unusual but you'd probably be doing 16 sectors a month knowing them!!!!
http://flyopenskies.com/wp-content/u...apr-08-v6x.pdf
Cat c : A cadet entry pilot who has joined on the openlies pilot sponsored program. The salary reflects the deduction made by OpenLies to repay the pilot's ab-initio training loan.
Could be interesting once the whole BALPA / BA mess is sorted out - although provided BALPA win this would be hard to see why the cadet program would be to openlies and not BA mainline. Cadets starting on long-haul would be unusual but you'd probably be doing 16 sectors a month knowing them!!!!
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Well it sound good. But what happens when you want to switch to BA, the recruitment captains will send you packing since you helped drive down their salaries
Last edited by roll_over; 27th Apr 2008 at 21:35.
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I have no doubt the BA guys will be annoyed and it's a good plan (for ba) to open up sponsorship as they are going to get flooded with applications of wannabes that will do anything and take any salary to get in and that salary reduction that everyone is talking about will actually happen.
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Considering the BALPA dispute has nothing to do with pay, I doubt they would be too bothered. They accepted that a start up needs low overheads hence lower salaries for all. It is in all our interests for them to win their battle because anyone who flew for OS could then switch over to mainline BA, seniority allowing.
Not sure whether pay would then be interlined with BA mainline though, they haven't won yet... but here's hoping they do!
Not sure whether pay would then be interlined with BA mainline though, they haven't won yet... but here's hoping they do!
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It really is quite immature to refer to it as "Open Lies" every time the venture is mentioned...
Nevertheless, this points to the true reason the mainline workforce should be worried. As I predicted in an earlier post in R&N, the new recruitment will be fed through Open Skies in the future, leading to mainline becoming a more senior, expensive, and eventually marginal "A-scale" salaried workforce, while the OpenSkies workforce eventually becomes the B-scale main body of the workforce, particularly if European expansion is a success.
I could easily envisage a situation whereby Open Skies takes advantage of the collapse of Alitalia or others, and continues to develop a well-regarded European business that is preferentially flown by business passengers into Europe / US / Middle East.
Without cadet recruitment into both pilot bodies, the business will be marginalised the future.
Nevertheless, this points to the true reason the mainline workforce should be worried. As I predicted in an earlier post in R&N, the new recruitment will be fed through Open Skies in the future, leading to mainline becoming a more senior, expensive, and eventually marginal "A-scale" salaried workforce, while the OpenSkies workforce eventually becomes the B-scale main body of the workforce, particularly if European expansion is a success.
I could easily envisage a situation whereby Open Skies takes advantage of the collapse of Alitalia or others, and continues to develop a well-regarded European business that is preferentially flown by business passengers into Europe / US / Middle East.
Without cadet recruitment into both pilot bodies, the business will be marginalised the future.
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Well it sound good. But what happens when you want to switch to BA, the recruitment captains will send you packing since you helped drive down their salaries
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When you want to join BA Mainline (which by the way is exactly what Willie Walsh doesn't want you to do because it will drive up his training costs) you will be exempted the initial application assessment and fed straight through to interview.
If you are successful then you will start at the bottom again in mainline with a mainline seniority number as an FO on your starting fleet.
What BALPA are trying to secure is that OS pilots get a mainline seniority number on joining OS. That means that you can retain your place within the company seniority structure after your initial OS bond is concluded.
This will also allow mainline pilots to fly for OS, on the reduced pay package (its voluntary to go to OS) and, if a command is taken, return with that command course to the mainline. As it currently stands OS command courses are not valid for the mainline (
).
There is no ill feeling or animosity between OS and the mainline per se. The ill feeling is towards the management idea that mainline pilots will 'contaminate' (their words) OS and cause it to fail. That is the 'nub' of the dispute.
Good luck with the application and enjoy the flying. Hopefully this will get resolved and we can all be one happy airline family again
W2P
If you are successful then you will start at the bottom again in mainline with a mainline seniority number as an FO on your starting fleet.
What BALPA are trying to secure is that OS pilots get a mainline seniority number on joining OS. That means that you can retain your place within the company seniority structure after your initial OS bond is concluded.
This will also allow mainline pilots to fly for OS, on the reduced pay package (its voluntary to go to OS) and, if a command is taken, return with that command course to the mainline. As it currently stands OS command courses are not valid for the mainline (
).There is no ill feeling or animosity between OS and the mainline per se. The ill feeling is towards the management idea that mainline pilots will 'contaminate' (their words) OS and cause it to fail. That is the 'nub' of the dispute.
Good luck with the application and enjoy the flying. Hopefully this will get resolved and we can all be one happy airline family again
W2P
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So cadets straight to Long haul with only circa 200hours...FWIW British Airways stopped taking cadets onto the 757/767 fleet a few years ago because of the lack of 757 short haul flying as the fleet contracted. They felt that cadets would be best served going to a SH fleet to gain experiance for a few years first.
I would think that it is inadvisable to go straight onto a longahaul fleet flying into JFK when one is still trying to get to grips with the 757 and airline ops. In fact i would say it is downright dangerous. I fly into JFK 4 times a month and have been on the 757/767 for 10 years - it is still bloody hard work.
I would think that it is inadvisable to go straight onto a longahaul fleet flying into JFK when one is still trying to get to grips with the 757 and airline ops. In fact i would say it is downright dangerous. I fly into JFK 4 times a month and have been on the 757/767 for 10 years - it is still bloody hard work.
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3Greens,
Very valid point, however, for the cost cutting bean counters in Waterworld, cadets are cheap and ,generally, take alot longer to maon about their lot than most! I would hate to see the cost claw back and the bond though.
Personally, I think I'll avoid OS as a passenger
W2P
Very valid point, however, for the cost cutting bean counters in Waterworld, cadets are cheap and ,generally, take alot longer to maon about their lot than most! I would hate to see the cost claw back and the bond though.
Personally, I think I'll avoid OS as a passenger
W2P
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Hi guys,
Where the hell did you hear about an OpenSky sponsorship??? Do you have some more information, I searched on google an many web site and didn't find a word about this. Will OAT be the FTO???
Cheers
Where the hell did you hear about an OpenSky sponsorship??? Do you have some more information, I searched on google an many web site and didn't find a word about this. Will OAT be the FTO???
Cheers
I'd eat my hat if they didn't join all the other airlines in using CTC to select, train and arrange the personal finance for their cadets. Its a tried and tested system that just requires a phone call to implement.
Personally I don't see it happening. You've got a major recession on its way across the Atlantic, OPEC warning of $200 oil and a house price crash unfolding everywhere except Germany. Hardly the best time to be offering up a new product and expanding your capacity..
They started Go, it worked well and BA still bottled it. Against that history I'm not at all sure OpenSkies will ever fly.
Don't get your hopes up Wannabes.
WWW
Personally I don't see it happening. You've got a major recession on its way across the Atlantic, OPEC warning of $200 oil and a house price crash unfolding everywhere except Germany. Hardly the best time to be offering up a new product and expanding your capacity..
They started Go, it worked well and BA still bottled it. Against that history I'm not at all sure OpenSkies will ever fly.
Don't get your hopes up Wannabes.
WWW
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WWWAhem...http://www.airliners.net/photo/Open-...57-236/1350002
The "aircraft" flew yesterday...buti know what you meant
Christ on a bike - that's a shocker for me. I had no idea they actually got a liveried aircraft airborne. This'll be interesting..
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It will fly. Several people from my airline are on their way to it, and start their TR at CTC next month; BA have too much riding on it to pull the plug now.
Whether it stands the test of time is another matter.
Whether it stands the test of time is another matter.
And I suspect it's no coincidence that BA's former Flt Ops Dir now works for CTC!
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He also works for Oxford Aviation Academy, GECAT of old.
I haven't been following the Openskies thread on R&N so forgive my ignorance but looking at the photo of 'EK' is the prescence of a 'Stars & Stripes' in addition to the EU flag significant in terms of state of registration/licensing/ownership etc?
