CPL-IR-MCC - no job - how many of you?
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CPL-IR-MCC - no job - how many of you?
How many people out there with the CPL IR MCC (<300hrs) looking for your first airline job? And how long have you been looking?
I've heard the stories, and read the posts, most paint a dull future with retirement homes across the country full of people still clutching a blue licence in their tired, wrinkled hands. The only thing keeping them from slumping forward into their cold vegetable soup; the hope that any day now they'll hear back from the airlines they spent their whole lives applying to. Homes where the traditional drafts, dominos and card games are all but forgotten, replaced by a good old fashioned SS-TR debate....
But I digress. Genuinely, I would like to hear from those who are in the situation of having 'finished' but not yet 'started' (if you take my meaning)?
I've heard the stories, and read the posts, most paint a dull future with retirement homes across the country full of people still clutching a blue licence in their tired, wrinkled hands. The only thing keeping them from slumping forward into their cold vegetable soup; the hope that any day now they'll hear back from the airlines they spent their whole lives applying to. Homes where the traditional drafts, dominos and card games are all but forgotten, replaced by a good old fashioned SS-TR debate....
But I digress. Genuinely, I would like to hear from those who are in the situation of having 'finished' but not yet 'started' (if you take my meaning)?
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Hey clunck
I finished MCC early in February and sent my CV to just about every airline under the sun but no replys as yet, get the feeling its more of a waiting game.
Good Luck
I finished MCC early in February and sent my CV to just about every airline under the sun but no replys as yet, get the feeling its more of a waiting game.
Good Luck
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I did hear an unofficial figure of between 1200 & 1300 at any one time, this was 2-3 years ago, with the fluidity of the industry over the last couple of years this may well be less.
Not sure how you can find out for sure, CAA ?
Not sure how you can find out for sure, CAA ?
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Chaps,
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but sending out CV's to every airline under the sun and playing the 'waiting game' is unlikely to get you a job. The job is unlikely to just come to you. You have to make it happen yourself.
Try not to stagnate, make sure you keep current, doing some sort of flying. I know the company I work for receive something like 50 CV's a day. Imgaine what it is like, reading CV after CV with all the same stuff on it. A lot of the intake comes through recommendations, so get to know people!
As I say I don't mean to sound harsh, as I know exactly how you feel, as I have been there myself, but try and be productive.
Good luck.
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but sending out CV's to every airline under the sun and playing the 'waiting game' is unlikely to get you a job. The job is unlikely to just come to you. You have to make it happen yourself.
Try not to stagnate, make sure you keep current, doing some sort of flying. I know the company I work for receive something like 50 CV's a day. Imgaine what it is like, reading CV after CV with all the same stuff on it. A lot of the intake comes through recommendations, so get to know people!
As I say I don't mean to sound harsh, as I know exactly how you feel, as I have been there myself, but try and be productive.
Good luck.
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You should try to get into the mindset that you're not going to get a job with 300 hours.
That way, you'll be motivated to get an FI rating and get some valuable hours under your belt rather than sitting around the house all day looking at Pprune.
Then when you've got 700TT you might be able to secure some single pilot twin stuff then before you know it you've got 1,000TT and will look more attractive to the airlines. Last year and in 2006 my company were recruiting heavily but (I think) all the people we took on were ex-instructors, air taxi pilots etc.
CAT3C is spot on -it won't come to you so you need to get the hours and if you can get to know people who can help you.
That way, you'll be motivated to get an FI rating and get some valuable hours under your belt rather than sitting around the house all day looking at Pprune.
Then when you've got 700TT you might be able to secure some single pilot twin stuff then before you know it you've got 1,000TT and will look more attractive to the airlines. Last year and in 2006 my company were recruiting heavily but (I think) all the people we took on were ex-instructors, air taxi pilots etc.
CAT3C is spot on -it won't come to you so you need to get the hours and if you can get to know people who can help you.
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Recommendations are gold dust - a word in the right ear can be worth a hundred CVs. If you're still in training, cultivate relationships with flying school staff. In particular, you want to impress the CFI. I don't mean brown-nosing or taking him a shiny apple every day, just get yourself a reputation as a hard-working, dependable person that he wouldn't mind sitting next to for 8 hours a day. Many commercial schools have relationships with airlines - large and small, formal and informal - and CFIs can often ensure a CV goes straight to the top of the pile.
If you've finished training, hang around airfields and meet pilots. They won't all be airline recruiters, but remember that aviation is a very small world. Everyone knows someone who's got a mate, and the more contacts you have in the industry, the better your chance of finding work.
To answer the original question, I finished the IR and MCC last November and had a job offer within three months, as have most of the people who trained with me. Some had recommendations, one or two sold their soul to the devil and paid for a type rating, but I don't think any of us got there by sending out mountains of CVs - aviation just doesn't work like that.
Keep busy, keep the faith and even sweep hangar floors if that's what it takes to stay inside the industry - it's the ones who don't give up that get there in the end.
If you've finished training, hang around airfields and meet pilots. They won't all be airline recruiters, but remember that aviation is a very small world. Everyone knows someone who's got a mate, and the more contacts you have in the industry, the better your chance of finding work.
To answer the original question, I finished the IR and MCC last November and had a job offer within three months, as have most of the people who trained with me. Some had recommendations, one or two sold their soul to the devil and paid for a type rating, but I don't think any of us got there by sending out mountains of CVs - aviation just doesn't work like that.
Keep busy, keep the faith and even sweep hangar floors if that's what it takes to stay inside the industry - it's the ones who don't give up that get there in the end.
Last edited by G SXTY; 22nd Mar 2008 at 21:52.
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Hi,
totally agree with the words of G SXTY,
that's the way I got my first right seat..while placing my foot in the door's motion toward shutting...but 15 years ago...(worse period)
maintain the pressure and the contact with people all around the field..
That's the way to force the door in that particular "world"..except if you can count on specific and well placed relationship..that's was not my case..and I had to fight each day to open the famous first door...
Keep on going...don't give up...
and forgive me for my approximate english..just trying to let you understand that it's hard for anybody but still accessible...
totally agree with the words of G SXTY,
that's the way I got my first right seat..while placing my foot in the door's motion toward shutting...but 15 years ago...(worse period)
maintain the pressure and the contact with people all around the field..
That's the way to force the door in that particular "world"..except if you can count on specific and well placed relationship..that's was not my case..and I had to fight each day to open the famous first door...
Keep on going...don't give up...
and forgive me for my approximate english..just trying to let you understand that it's hard for anybody but still accessible...
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Agree with everything G SXTY said apart from the brown nosing bit, the bottom line is that you do whatever it takes to get on in this world, nobody gives a rat's arse about you so look after yourself, and if it takes brown nosing to get that recommendation or contact then do it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Come on. Nobody likes an arse licker, why not try being friends with your target contact at the aeroclub. Get them to like you because of your personality and who you are. Not because of how far you can get your nose up their behind.
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I finished the MCC in August and I was offered a job with Ryanair almost straight away but I didn't have a spare 25k so I had to say no!
After sending out around 45 CV's every couple of months I decided to do the FIC. I think this is the way forward but only if you're willing to do the job!!
After sending out around 45 CV's every couple of months I decided to do the FIC. I think this is the way forward but only if you're willing to do the job!!
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I finished my MCC in feb and have been sending out cvs, writing to people and networking as much as possible. I am starting my FI course in a few weeks to keep in the air, build hours and help people up the ladder. Keep your hopes up everyone. I have jet and turbine time and not lucky yet but its still very early days.
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with such a shortage of instructors needed throughout the UK and the rest of the world i can't work out why there are any wannabes out there not at least considering doing an FI rating! Really, kissing ass alone will not get you the first job, wake up and smell the coffee. Appart from the obvious improvement in your flying skills, the 100's of hours flying time (all PIC!) and the enjoyment of getting paid to fly daily, you will make invaluable contacts and get your face known by those who are able to give you the first job!
i only glanced at Flight training news last week when at my local club but there were endless job adverts throughout the country. I am sure you wannabes have heard it all before but without my FI rating i would not have the job i'm in today,and without that FI rating i would not be thinking about a command so quickly! Really you are missing the point thinking jet and not FI!
But that maybe the undoing of those of you too desperate to move into the airlines before you have earned your place.
Just for the record, i complete my MCC after building hours as a FI and only 8 weeks later secured my first FO position. It was simply down to the fact that i had over 1000 hours, and a little luck.
best of luck to you all, but really think about becoming a FI. whats £5k after spending £50k already.
i only glanced at Flight training news last week when at my local club but there were endless job adverts throughout the country. I am sure you wannabes have heard it all before but without my FI rating i would not have the job i'm in today,and without that FI rating i would not be thinking about a command so quickly! Really you are missing the point thinking jet and not FI!
But that maybe the undoing of those of you too desperate to move into the airlines before you have earned your place.
Just for the record, i complete my MCC after building hours as a FI and only 8 weeks later secured my first FO position. It was simply down to the fact that i had over 1000 hours, and a little luck.
best of luck to you all, but really think about becoming a FI. whats £5k after spending £50k already.
Last edited by skyhigher; 23rd Mar 2008 at 13:52.
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S'up Sirs and Madams,
Sorry to jump in on the conversation, Im currently soon to start full time (Mod
) Ground School, i.e. I'm at the other end of training from you guys, Ive got it all to come.
So, I just thought I'd drop a note in here to say that it looks like getting that first (airline) job looks like an absolute struggle, with an undefinable time frame.
I'm 24, and seen my fair share of hard work, and I'm a very firm believer that things never come to, unless you're one in a million. You have to work your nads off, because whats going to make you special out of 1000 other people. Im not just talking about aviation but in almost every aspect of life.
So, reading all your thoughts etc on here, is sooooo inspiring, and I just cant wait to get on with my training. Freakishly enough Im looking forward to finishing my MCC and job hunting. Whether it takes a week or a decade, bring it on!!!
Thanks everyone for your inspirational posts, keep them coming, you dont know who you might inspire.
MB
Sorry to jump in on the conversation, Im currently soon to start full time (Mod
) Ground School, i.e. I'm at the other end of training from you guys, Ive got it all to come. So, I just thought I'd drop a note in here to say that it looks like getting that first (airline) job looks like an absolute struggle, with an undefinable time frame.
I'm 24, and seen my fair share of hard work, and I'm a very firm believer that things never come to, unless you're one in a million. You have to work your nads off, because whats going to make you special out of 1000 other people. Im not just talking about aviation but in almost every aspect of life.
So, reading all your thoughts etc on here, is sooooo inspiring, and I just cant wait to get on with my training. Freakishly enough Im looking forward to finishing my MCC and job hunting. Whether it takes a week or a decade, bring it on!!!
Thanks everyone for your inspirational posts, keep them coming, you dont know who you might inspire.
MB
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Took me 3 years to get the call, i was lucky to be in the country that particular morning. I had 950hrs and a part-time F/I when the call came, 38 years old and now flying one of the most hi-tech T/Ps on the market. Try to direct your CV's to realistic companies that match your experience.
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According to the following there were 1,146 CPL (A)'s issued during 2006-2007 by the UK CAA. In order to get a feel for the market you need to make certain assumptions. Some of those CPL holders will want to be career instructors, some will run out of money and not get the IR so won't be in the mix for a commercial flying job. Some won't be cut out for the job at all and not get interviewed. Some won't be able to put together a decent CV which might work in your favour. BUT in the previous year there were another 1,129 CPL's issued so you have to bear in mind that some of them will be in the mix looking for a job as well. Then each week the system is churning out another batch of wannabes.
Also bear in mind that the UK/Ireland are probably the most welcoming for prospective pilots in as far as if you have a JAA licence then you are on an equal footing to get a job irrespective of where you trained subject of course to jumping through the necessary hoops.
All in all it makes sobering reading those stats coupled with the number of students across Europe that are coming out of the flying schools each year.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Licenc...20-%202007.pdf
Also bear in mind that the UK/Ireland are probably the most welcoming for prospective pilots in as far as if you have a JAA licence then you are on an equal footing to get a job irrespective of where you trained subject of course to jumping through the necessary hoops.
All in all it makes sobering reading those stats coupled with the number of students across Europe that are coming out of the flying schools each year.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Licenc...20-%202007.pdf
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Do you really think it's is a useful and helpful way of gaining employment?
IMO It's bad advice and I certainly would never help someone who is a brown noser get a job (generally that sort of attitude goes hand-in-hand with **** decision making and flying skills anyway).
Arse licking is not a good trait for a professional pilot.
It doesn't matter. Besides, the figures would be skewed because a lot of intergrated cadets have unlimited cash supply and go straight into a ryanair (or similar) TR scheme as soon as they finish the course.
IMO It's bad advice and I certainly would never help someone who is a brown noser get a job (generally that sort of attitude goes hand-in-hand with **** decision making and flying skills anyway).
Arse licking is not a good trait for a professional pilot.
I'm wondering how many of you guys were modular and integrated??
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Nope I don't think it's a useful way of gaining employment, I didn't say that, the employment part is the indirect result, I was talking about leaving a flying school with a recommendation. Not having to fight to get myself an airline job I can only guess how frustrating it is for wannabes to be waiting 2 years +, however, I would agree with your sentiment if you are this kind of person deep down, but all I am saying is that you should leave no avenue unturned to get that flight deck job, you just have to be a little smart in how you go about things.
I think the issue is that generically nobody likes an arse licker, I'm not here to discuss the whys etc, but as long as it doesn't effect me I couldn't care if someone was licking or not.
I think the issue is that generically nobody likes an arse licker, I'm not here to discuss the whys etc, but as long as it doesn't effect me I couldn't care if someone was licking or not.
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Of the few friends I have seen go through the mill in the past five years, each has ended up in a flying job. This has purely been down to persistence and of course a bit of lady luck..
I think top and bottom is not to give up and try and remain positive.. I know its hard when I think now about how much bloody money I owe now, with, of course no guarantees.. As if I havent got into enough debt, I am trying to get further debt and get an FI rating to try and stay within the industry and who knows what openings/contacts.. Worst thing anyone could do is get CPL/IR/MCC then fly for an hour a month.. I often wonder what I have let myself in for then when I go flying I realise
I think top and bottom is not to give up and try and remain positive.. I know its hard when I think now about how much bloody money I owe now, with, of course no guarantees.. As if I havent got into enough debt, I am trying to get further debt and get an FI rating to try and stay within the industry and who knows what openings/contacts.. Worst thing anyone could do is get CPL/IR/MCC then fly for an hour a month.. I often wonder what I have let myself in for then when I go flying I realise