How easy is it to get a job then?
Are you aware that reading and writing are far more important skills than engineering understanding for the modern pilot?
Seriously. The ability to read a set of poorly written rules and apply them to a unique situation is both a difficult and common task on the flightdeck.
If you think that designing missile systems is fun then you've probably never met a missile systems designer.
The debt and loss of earnings that your degree will cost you is unlikely to be repaid by higher graduate earnings for many years and as such the plan is poor based on a purely financial view.
WWW
Seriously. The ability to read a set of poorly written rules and apply them to a unique situation is both a difficult and common task on the flightdeck.
If you think that designing missile systems is fun then you've probably never met a missile systems designer.
The debt and loss of earnings that your degree will cost you is unlikely to be repaid by higher graduate earnings for many years and as such the plan is poor based on a purely financial view.
WWW
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I can read fine! i just type to quickly and never go back to correct anything.
do you have no idea of student debt, its all a big loan that you pay back about £5 a week its nothing!
Engineering jobs are fun ... if you understand them that is, and yes i no many weapon systems folk along with aerospace systems and aerospace engineering.
our Avionics Systems modual covered alot of navigation and various things and it all seems a doddle compared to say thermo dynamics
anyway getting off track here,
no one with an engineering background done any pilot training in here then?
do you have no idea of student debt, its all a big loan that you pay back about £5 a week its nothing!
Engineering jobs are fun ... if you understand them that is, and yes i no many weapon systems folk along with aerospace systems and aerospace engineering.
our Avionics Systems modual covered alot of navigation and various things and it all seems a doddle compared to say thermo dynamics
anyway getting off track here,
no one with an engineering background done any pilot training in here then?
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do you have no idea of student debt, its all a big loan that you pay back about £5 a week its nothing!
Check it out, see how much you pay back.
http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php
£15,500 pa means you pay back 87p per week
£20,000 pa means you pay back £8.65 per week
£25,000 pa means you pay back £17.31 per week
£30,500 pa means you pay back £26.83 per week
Not exactly £5 a week if you're earning a tidy wage is it?
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ok so i was slightly wrong on my estimate but say you on £30,000pa then 9% on 15k is £1350 a year £112.50 a month is hardly going to break the bank is it? plus you calculator thingy says you'd be taking home £1700 a month say 700 for rent (i'm currently paying 275) 100 for food 150 for fuel 100 for bills and stuff.
the other £650 a month go go on what you want practly £8000 a year,
if ive missed anything then my over estimation on rent will make up for it.
not having a go or anything just trying to show my idea on the best way to some flying quals
within 4 years of a masters you could become a charted engineer and be on lots more money so even more to spend on training.
What course did you do at uni btw? and did it help?
how far are you through your training? and what you doing now as regards to working, training, ect ect
thanks
nathan
the other £650 a month go go on what you want practly £8000 a year,
if ive missed anything then my over estimation on rent will make up for it.
not having a go or anything just trying to show my idea on the best way to some flying quals
within 4 years of a masters you could become a charted engineer and be on lots more money so even more to spend on training.
What course did you do at uni btw? and did it help?
how far are you through your training? and what you doing now as regards to working, training, ect ect
thanks
nathan
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Nathan your maths seems to be about right.
As I said working backward from what you want to save you'll need to earn £30,500pa. And that's living on a shoe string budget.
Having a Masters in Engineering is going to be a bit of a waste if you planning on becoming a pilot really - 3 years is long enough to bee seen as 'educated' and to give yourself a safety net.
I'm not aware of the pay in your industry for graduates but is £30k a realistic figure for a graduates pay?
I did my BSc in IT and £30k is not a realistic figure for an inexperienced graduate, after 4 years or so it is possible but not straight out of Uni.
I am currently working on a number of jobs, I am a web designer / graphic designer / small amount of programming / IT support / Training co-ordinator for a growing company. And I work freelance at weekends
.
Starting my PPL+Night with B-F-C this summer, starting ATPL exams via BGS by the end of the summer along with some hour building, then Multi-IR/CPL with B-F-C in summer '09.
I had most of the money to start it last summer but decided to put it down as a deposit on my apartment due to ever raising house prices
I've decided to take out a small loan to fund my CPL as I estimate I will run out of funds during/after my Multi-IR. If I delay it any longer I'll be sitting my PPL in the winter that will also have a knock on effect for my Multi-IR/CPL which I don't want.
So I have a BSc and 3 years experience in IT with a mid 20's wage packet + benifits. I'll get my fATPL only £5k or so in debt (not including a FI rating or MCC). And I own my own home.
Good luck.
As I said working backward from what you want to save you'll need to earn £30,500pa. And that's living on a shoe string budget.
Having a Masters in Engineering is going to be a bit of a waste if you planning on becoming a pilot really - 3 years is long enough to bee seen as 'educated' and to give yourself a safety net.
I'm not aware of the pay in your industry for graduates but is £30k a realistic figure for a graduates pay?
I did my BSc in IT and £30k is not a realistic figure for an inexperienced graduate, after 4 years or so it is possible but not straight out of Uni.
I am currently working on a number of jobs, I am a web designer / graphic designer / small amount of programming / IT support / Training co-ordinator for a growing company. And I work freelance at weekends
.Starting my PPL+Night with B-F-C this summer, starting ATPL exams via BGS by the end of the summer along with some hour building, then Multi-IR/CPL with B-F-C in summer '09.
I had most of the money to start it last summer but decided to put it down as a deposit on my apartment due to ever raising house prices
I've decided to take out a small loan to fund my CPL as I estimate I will run out of funds during/after my Multi-IR. If I delay it any longer I'll be sitting my PPL in the winter that will also have a knock on effect for my Multi-IR/CPL which I don't want.
So I have a BSc and 3 years experience in IT with a mid 20's wage packet + benifits. I'll get my fATPL only £5k or so in debt (not including a FI rating or MCC). And I own my own home.
Good luck.
Its a big loan which has low minimum repayments linked to income. Its STILL a loan though and you have to pay it all back plus a little interest. Whilst you have that debt it will directly restrict that which you might borrow to fund flying training.
Lets say you leave Univeristy only £12k in debt. You graduate job over the next 4 years will loose £3k a year before tax, £4k a year after tax. So lets say you get a job that pays in year 1 22k, year 2 24k, year 3 £26k and year 4 £28k. Thats a median wage of £25k minus £3k loan repayment which is actually £4k a year gross (you have to pay income tax on the money you use to repay the loan).
So really I think you're likely to be on around £21k average gross after student loan repayment to get you debt free ready for flying training and all its costs and loans.
You seriously could equal that by joining a Modern Apprenticeship scheme or similar in house scheme as offered by major employers in hi-tech sectors.
University is very expensive when you consider the debt repayments and loss of earnings. It probably does pay off over the next 10 or 20 years in that profession but as you are planning of changing career anyway then it really doesn't make much sense.
Of course it is quite attractive to be a student for the next three years lying in bed until 10 with some fellow student and living the University lifestyle. But that's a totally different set of considerations.
WWW
Lets say you leave Univeristy only £12k in debt. You graduate job over the next 4 years will loose £3k a year before tax, £4k a year after tax. So lets say you get a job that pays in year 1 22k, year 2 24k, year 3 £26k and year 4 £28k. Thats a median wage of £25k minus £3k loan repayment which is actually £4k a year gross (you have to pay income tax on the money you use to repay the loan).
So really I think you're likely to be on around £21k average gross after student loan repayment to get you debt free ready for flying training and all its costs and loans.
You seriously could equal that by joining a Modern Apprenticeship scheme or similar in house scheme as offered by major employers in hi-tech sectors.
University is very expensive when you consider the debt repayments and loss of earnings. It probably does pay off over the next 10 or 20 years in that profession but as you are planning of changing career anyway then it really doesn't make much sense.
Of course it is quite attractive to be a student for the next three years lying in bed until 10 with some fellow student and living the University lifestyle. But that's a totally different set of considerations.
WWW
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Nathan, I don't understand what you're trying to do?
You're saying that being an engineer or missile designer is better than being a pilot. Yet you want to continue a degree to become one of the former, only to leave for the 'less hard, less fun job' of being a pilot.
The attitude is hardly the recipe for success if you want to be a pilot is it?
Just be a missile man!
You're saying that being an engineer or missile designer is better than being a pilot. Yet you want to continue a degree to become one of the former, only to leave for the 'less hard, less fun job' of being a pilot.
The attitude is hardly the recipe for success if you want to be a pilot is it?
Just be a missile man!
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Nathan, as a former senior systems engineer for our astute UK ATC provider, I can now safely say that being a pilot is much better!! Engineering is dull as dishwater.
How anyone can think that sitting in an office is more exciting than a flightdeck is beyond me! Money and prospects are so much better now too.
My reasons for the way things went with me is my business, but take it from me, I don't dread Mondays anymore!!
How anyone can think that sitting in an office is more exciting than a flightdeck is beyond me! Money and prospects are so much better now too.
My reasons for the way things went with me is my business, but take it from me, I don't dread Mondays anymore!!
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WWW: I agree with your post fully. Except it was never until 10 - during the times of Uni, sometimes it was even later!
But on a more serious note. It is very hard to get a job at the moment. I've sent off around 30 - 40 different applications to different airlines. That figure doesn't include duplicate ones I have sent off after a month of not hearing back on previous applications. And before anyone asks, my training record is what I would define as "good": High 90s Ground school average, 1st time IR and CPL and a good final report to back it up.
As far as I'm aware, at the moment, things are really hard. If people are finding jobs, it's generally with one particular airline, who are expanding.
And most people who think that training is hard! - just you wait until you try the job hunt!
But on a more serious note. It is very hard to get a job at the moment. I've sent off around 30 - 40 different applications to different airlines. That figure doesn't include duplicate ones I have sent off after a month of not hearing back on previous applications. And before anyone asks, my training record is what I would define as "good": High 90s Ground school average, 1st time IR and CPL and a good final report to back it up.
As far as I'm aware, at the moment, things are really hard. If people are finding jobs, it's generally with one particular airline, who are expanding.
And most people who think that training is hard! - just you wait until you try the job hunt!
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How important is it to graduate from a well known school?
Hey all,
Just wondering, how important is it to graduate from a well know school like OATS? I am planning to go there but after comparing the total cost, i was quite shock due to the price difference with other schools.
I know it depends on the individual's ablity as well, i have read many threads saying how they can't find a job after graduating, which is quite worrying.
Also, i just want to know, how easy is it to get into a big airline like(BA n Virgin) after graduating?
Thanx
Kenny
Just wondering, how important is it to graduate from a well know school like OATS? I am planning to go there but after comparing the total cost, i was quite shock due to the price difference with other schools.
I know it depends on the individual's ablity as well, i have read many threads saying how they can't find a job after graduating, which is quite worrying.
Also, i just want to know, how easy is it to get into a big airline like(BA n Virgin) after graduating?
Thanx
Kenny
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I was just going to write in to say about nathans dream. I love it. Wish my loan was only a fiver a week and my rent was 275 a month. Why didn't I have it that easy when I was a student? Oh yeah, because I was a student pilot.
Get a grip nathan you don't know what you want. Ask Jeremy Kyle.
Kenny, unfortunately you just won't get a job with a large carrier straight after graduating. BA and Virgin will want you to have at least 3000 hours plus heavy jet experience, unless you're lucky enough to be sponsored by BA (see their cadete sponsorships for that). You'll find that most people after graduating are really hard up. I think most people wait around a year to get a flying job, then that's on a smaller aircraft to gain experience and most importantly hours. Then there's the controversial move of paying for your own type rating and going for Ryanair or Easyjet. I won't go into why that's frowned upon, it'll just get a rubbish debate going that is repeated every other day on this site.
Expensive integrated school or cheaper modular? There's another debate that has been clawed to death. If you could look into the future and see the state of the job market after you graduate then it would make the decision alot easier.... Seeing as you asked for opinions, I went to one of the big integrated schools and absolutely loved it. Everything was great there; instruction, aircraft and the general environment. However, most of the people I know work with didn't pay anywhere near what I paid and still got the same job. It's upto you.
Get a grip nathan you don't know what you want. Ask Jeremy Kyle.
Kenny, unfortunately you just won't get a job with a large carrier straight after graduating. BA and Virgin will want you to have at least 3000 hours plus heavy jet experience, unless you're lucky enough to be sponsored by BA (see their cadete sponsorships for that). You'll find that most people after graduating are really hard up. I think most people wait around a year to get a flying job, then that's on a smaller aircraft to gain experience and most importantly hours. Then there's the controversial move of paying for your own type rating and going for Ryanair or Easyjet. I won't go into why that's frowned upon, it'll just get a rubbish debate going that is repeated every other day on this site.
Expensive integrated school or cheaper modular? There's another debate that has been clawed to death. If you could look into the future and see the state of the job market after you graduate then it would make the decision alot easier.... Seeing as you asked for opinions, I went to one of the big integrated schools and absolutely loved it. Everything was great there; instruction, aircraft and the general environment. However, most of the people I know work with didn't pay anywhere near what I paid and still got the same job. It's upto you.
Flying High
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Kenny, unfortunately you just won't get a job with a large carrier straight after graduating. BA and Virgin will want you to have at least 3000 hours plus heavy jet experience, unless you're lucky enough to be sponsored by BA (see their cadete sponsorships for that). You'll find that most people after graduating are really hard up. I think most people wait around a year to get a flying job, then that's on a smaller aircraft to gain experience and most importantly hours. Then there's the controversial move of paying for your own type rating and going for Ryanair or Easyjet. I won't go into why that's frowned upon, it'll just get a rubbish debate going that is repeated every other day on this site.
BongleBear... your comment about VA is true.. it is commonly said they want at least 4000 hours.
However why do you say that about BA?
You realise that you can apply for them with minimum hours, they pick the best of people training from various schools.
From 252 who got jobs from OAT last year... 42 went to BA.
They do after all have a short haul fleet
Oh didn't BA stop sponsoring their chaps ages ago.....
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Yeah sorry, really meant BA's long haul ops that compete with VA's. Point I was trying to make was that you can't leave training and go straight into long haul, I remember thinking it was that easy!
Sorry for the confusion,
B.Bear
Sorry for the confusion,
B.Bear
Year after year I never cease to be amazed that people out there sign up for £80k training courses knowing so little about the employment market that awaits at the other end.
Unless you knew a couple of people in the business then ignorance was common in the 1990's. Then along came this forum and there was light.
If you can't name 10 UK airlines off the top of your head in less than 40 seconds you shouldn't be allowed to sit the ATPL exams.
WWW
Unless you knew a couple of people in the business then ignorance was common in the 1990's. Then along came this forum and there was light.
If you can't name 10 UK airlines off the top of your head in less than 40 seconds you shouldn't be allowed to sit the ATPL exams.
WWW
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BMRR,
That was nasty!
Although I see what you mean.
NathanHunter,
Having gone down the Aeronautical Engineering Degree-route myself, I know that it won't give you a head-start when it comes to getting that first job.
Most, if not all, operators will only be interested in having you onboard as a pilot only anyway.
In that sence, a degree would be a waste of time.
When that's said, I must say that my uni-studies did give me a good preparation for the JAR ATPL-theory, which I found to be a breeze!
But, I would've made it anyway. Degree or not.
It does feel good however, to have something else under my belt, since a "pilot degree" limits your options somewhat.
Especially if you, God forbid, lose your medical or something of that kind!
In the end, it's your choice. I wish you good luck, either way!
P.S Even engineers have to have the "art of correct spelling" down, so you'd better start working on that one! Now-ish!! D.S
That was nasty!
Although I see what you mean.
NathanHunter,
Having gone down the Aeronautical Engineering Degree-route myself, I know that it won't give you a head-start when it comes to getting that first job.
Most, if not all, operators will only be interested in having you onboard as a pilot only anyway.
In that sence, a degree would be a waste of time.
When that's said, I must say that my uni-studies did give me a good preparation for the JAR ATPL-theory, which I found to be a breeze!
But, I would've made it anyway. Degree or not.
It does feel good however, to have something else under my belt, since a "pilot degree" limits your options somewhat.
Especially if you, God forbid, lose your medical or something of that kind!
In the end, it's your choice. I wish you good luck, either way!
P.S Even engineers have to have the "art of correct spelling" down, so you'd better start working on that one! Now-ish!!
D.S
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Nathan,
Whilst I would be extremely impressed with your engineering credentials if you came to me for a job as a commercial pilot, your shoddy typing skills would, I'm afraid, go against your application.
Lord knows where we would end up if you were to be let loose programming the FMC!
AP
Whilst I would be extremely impressed with your engineering credentials if you came to me for a job as a commercial pilot, your shoddy typing skills would, I'm afraid, go against your application.
Lord knows where we would end up if you were to be let loose programming the FMC!
AP
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Thanks for the info bongolebear,
Can someone tell me, what are the advantages to go to an expensive integrated compare to the cheaper modulars route?
Well, by loooking into the future, i think the expensive integrated route is a better option, because netjets is look to hire 180 pilots for 2008, and BA excepted mroe than 50% OATS graduates for their self sponsered scheme
last year. But i might be wrong!
Also, i want to know will BA or Virgin hire pilots who are not an EU citizen?
Regards
Kenny
Can someone tell me, what are the advantages to go to an expensive integrated compare to the cheaper modulars route?
Well, by loooking into the future, i think the expensive integrated route is a better option, because netjets is look to hire 180 pilots for 2008, and BA excepted mroe than 50% OATS graduates for their self sponsered scheme
last year. But i might be wrong!
Also, i want to know will BA or Virgin hire pilots who are not an EU citizen?
Regards
Kenny
Last edited by kenny6pac; 26th Jan 2008 at 21:33.