Difficult choice! What would you do?
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Yes, It would have to be the L45, In today's climate of uncertainty, You could be out of work in 6 months?
I doubt it at FR, But the L45 is more hands-on free flying, Than flying the Bucket n Spade's
I doubt it at FR, But the L45 is more hands-on free flying, Than flying the Bucket n Spade's
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The lear will be a lot of fun
However I slated my mate who did the cadet scheme with FR and to be honest if you were to look at his earnings over 4 years he is in front after flying with Ryanair, if you look at his earnings over 10 years (Think mortgage, wife, kids, porsche, bald head) honestly FR will be the way to go.
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,
Depending on your hours now it could take 5/6 years to make P1 on the Lear because you physically do less flying and the insurers make the rules
P1 at FR =£90k (Admittedly a lot of b**lsh1t, pay for sim, water, etc etc)
P1 Lear = £60-65k great fun but possibly less job stability
The difference is your mortgage paid, your kids school fees paid or your wife not needing to work and of course she needs a mini cooper to go see the horses.
I fly P1 on mid size bizjets and love it but now I'm rapidly approaching baldness I would rather fly a 737 for ezy/fr/whoever purely from a stable roster and cash point of view.
Please also be fully aware that this is a very nice problem to have and many would jump at the chance for either.
Oh and for having "no commercial pressure" and "vast profit" margins in GA, whoever posted that clearly has no experience of this corner of our industry
However I slated my mate who did the cadet scheme with FR and to be honest if you were to look at his earnings over 4 years he is in front after flying with Ryanair, if you look at his earnings over 10 years (Think mortgage, wife, kids, porsche, bald head) honestly FR will be the way to go.
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,
Depending on your hours now it could take 5/6 years to make P1 on the Lear because you physically do less flying and the insurers make the rules
P1 at FR =£90k (Admittedly a lot of b**lsh1t, pay for sim, water, etc etc)
P1 Lear = £60-65k great fun but possibly less job stability
The difference is your mortgage paid, your kids school fees paid or your wife not needing to work and of course she needs a mini cooper to go see the horses.
I fly P1 on mid size bizjets and love it but now I'm rapidly approaching baldness I would rather fly a 737 for ezy/fr/whoever purely from a stable roster and cash point of view.
Please also be fully aware that this is a very nice problem to have and many would jump at the chance for either.
Oh and for having "no commercial pressure" and "vast profit" margins in GA, whoever posted that clearly has no experience of this corner of our industry
Last edited by G-SPOTs Lost; 21st Dec 2007 at 07:45.
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G-Spot,
As a highly qualified pilot on mid size bizz jets, is it difficult for you to start with an airliner? You have experience (i think highly experience) so it can't be that hard. I choose for the lear. Ok it is not heavy a/c aircraft, but i gain experience and i fly with a jet.
grtz
As a highly qualified pilot on mid size bizz jets, is it difficult for you to start with an airliner? You have experience (i think highly experience) so it can't be that hard. I choose for the lear. Ok it is not heavy a/c aircraft, but i gain experience and i fly with a jet.
grtz
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There's no difference between flying a heavy or a light.
The flying is all the same, recent jets are all EFIS equipped.
Your bizjet career can give you way more advantages later on: carriers like Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, .. etc really don't look at how many pax or cargo you carried but how variable your job was: how many different airports you landed on, how many different sorts of operations you had, etc...
The day you start flying for the money you shouldn't be flying anymore.
I'm not saying you should pay to fly, no far from that.
I'm saying that the day you loose the interest in the flying you become a dangerous pilot, you will start to operate your aircraft on an "auto-pilot" sequence.
You also shouldn't be forgetting that you are risking your life for this job.
Airliners may be the safest form of transport.
Don't forget though that it is the unsafest form of people transport on its scale (beating cruisers, and ships in the 200+ people category) and that any mistake can easier lead to disastrous outcomes.
The flying is all the same, recent jets are all EFIS equipped.
Your bizjet career can give you way more advantages later on: carriers like Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, .. etc really don't look at how many pax or cargo you carried but how variable your job was: how many different airports you landed on, how many different sorts of operations you had, etc...
However I slated my mate who did the cadet scheme with FR and to be honest if you were to look at his earnings over 4 years he is in front after flying with Ryanair, if you look at his earnings over 10 years (Think mortgage, wife, kids, porsche, bald head) honestly FR will be the way to go.
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,
After 4 years you will probably make P1 at FR,
I'm not saying you should pay to fly, no far from that.
I'm saying that the day you loose the interest in the flying you become a dangerous pilot, you will start to operate your aircraft on an "auto-pilot" sequence.
You also shouldn't be forgetting that you are risking your life for this job.
Airliners may be the safest form of transport.
Don't forget though that it is the unsafest form of people transport on its scale (beating cruisers, and ships in the 200+ people category) and that any mistake can easier lead to disastrous outcomes.
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There's no difference between flying a heavy or a light
The flying is all the same, recent jets are all EFIS equipped
Nichibei - I could pull your last post pretty much to pieces but because I'm too polite I wont. Be under no illusion flying is fun but after 6 months it becomes a job - a great job, but a job.
Nichiebei if the world was the way you see it we would all be flying DC3's wearing white scarfs, smoking cigarettes in the cockpit. When the ink is dry on your type rating and you have 500+ hrs on type, your kids still need feeding and you aspire for a faster car and a bigger house. Thats genetics and DNA not the sign of a
dangerous pilot
carriers like Emirates, Singapore, Etihad, .. etc really don't look at how many pax or cargo you carried but how variable your job was: how many different airports you landed on, how many different sorts of operations you had, etc
What utter tosh. Emirates et al all want time in jets over 50T now last time I checked a lear came no where even close to this magical number. Mate do you leave in the real world?
Flying a lear might be for you but dont go around saying its the be all and end all. It amazes me that people pop onto pprune to get advice on which job to choose. Surely when you started out you knew what type of flying you wanted to do? Do you want to be a corporate pilot with all that entails ie loading bags being on call at all hours, serving food etc or do you want to be a line jockey for an airline? The choice is really that simple!
Like many other posters here have said flying is a job and a job that I love but love dont pay the rent and for the things I want in life! As for being a dangerous pilot I would be highly insulted at that!
What utter tosh. Emirates et al all want time in jets over 50T now last time I checked a lear came no where even close to this magical number. Mate do you leave in the real world?
Flying a lear might be for you but dont go around saying its the be all and end all. It amazes me that people pop onto pprune to get advice on which job to choose. Surely when you started out you knew what type of flying you wanted to do? Do you want to be a corporate pilot with all that entails ie loading bags being on call at all hours, serving food etc or do you want to be a line jockey for an airline? The choice is really that simple!
Like many other posters here have said flying is a job and a job that I love but love dont pay the rent and for the things I want in life! As for being a dangerous pilot I would be highly insulted at that!
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No, even before training i did not decide on what type a/c i wanted to fly. It surprises me all the time that a lot of people say" after training i want to fly with Boeing, flying 5 years and then going for the left seat". I'm not like that. I agree you have to look a bit forward but not to far i think. Life is full of surprises and you don't know what is coming to you.
In considering 2 job opportunities i've looked the complete package. So not only the type of a/c but also the atmosphere in the company, finance and so on.
Afterall i can gain experience, at that is for me the most important thing. I don't know where i'm going to end: flying a corporate jet as p1, flying an airliner, being an instructor..... I really don't know, but i know it will all work out and i"m positive about the future.
grtz
brie
In considering 2 job opportunities i've looked the complete package. So not only the type of a/c but also the atmosphere in the company, finance and so on.
Afterall i can gain experience, at that is for me the most important thing. I don't know where i'm going to end: flying a corporate jet as p1, flying an airliner, being an instructor..... I really don't know, but i know it will all work out and i"m positive about the future.
grtz
brie
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Try flying to JFK in a Lear 45!
I don't see what you mean by flying a Lear into JFK? There are Lear's flying as corporate service into JFK.
And this is the Emirates first officer minimum requirement sheet:
Requirements for Position of First Officer - A330/A340 and B777
- A minimum of 4,000 hours total flying time
- A minimum of 2,000 hours multi-crew, multi-engined jet aircraft experience
- ICAO ATPL
- English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension)
- Experience commensurate with age
- Type rated would be advantageous
I know at least 1 person who had a bizjet career and is now flying for Emirates.
You should try to reconsider what you are saying and let the people who know more tell what they know, instead of disrespecting flight school employees with more market experience just to make yourself feel superior.
Now now, 1800£ isn't sufficient to pay the rent, the food, etc..?
Where are you living, in the buckingham palace?
1800£ is probably for the first years but once you gain seniority you most surely get an upgrade.
Once you lose the love of the job and start to work purely for the money, your motivation level decreases.
Thumbs up Brie, enjoy it.
Last edited by Nichibei Aviation; 22nd Dec 2007 at 07:15.
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Let me teach you one thing kid
I wish, I'm nearly 40.
Nichibei Aviation what is your current aircraft type?
I mention the Lear 45 into JFK to differentiate between long range and short range operations, Lear into JFk from the UK would require two stops, it was a tongue in cheek comment about the differences in the kind of operations.
You may recall at least 1 freind who got in to Emirates however the guy here considering the Lear job would not have the minimum requirements to be able to even log on to the British Airways Online recruitment website after flying the Lear 45 for 5 years!
Not advocating either way just trying to highlight the differences.
Lear = less pay more fun
Airliner= more pay less fun
Pick and enjoy , this is a win/win situation!
Traditionally BA, for one, has never taken on many pilots from Ryanair. Now I have no figures on the numbers that may apply but, having flown with recruiters, their view is that hardly any make it through initial screening.
So, agreed a L45 might not help you into an airline like BA but neither is RYR!
So, agreed a L45 might not help you into an airline like BA but neither is RYR!
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Ham
Quite agree, strange that though - you would think that they may get extra brownie points for the work ethic and having put up with all the MOL crap and after all commercial JAA 737 ops is commercial JAA 737 ops isn't it.
The point I was tring to make about the Lear was the fact that for DEP recruitment purposes BA dont count any time on any aircraft less than 20t.
It might have changed now however that was certainly the case when I tried to plug in my Citation time a few years ago and didn't even get as far as typing in my name and address!!
Quite agree, strange that though - you would think that they may get extra brownie points for the work ethic and having put up with all the MOL crap and after all commercial JAA 737 ops is commercial JAA 737 ops isn't it.
The point I was tring to make about the Lear was the fact that for DEP recruitment purposes BA dont count any time on any aircraft less than 20t.
It might have changed now however that was certainly the case when I tried to plug in my Citation time a few years ago and didn't even get as far as typing in my name and address!!
There are quite a few ex-BMI Regional guys in BA who've only flown the Emb 135/145 which I believe is under 20 T.
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hi
At the end ..its not about flying different types..u fly a cockpit around in the skies...
What really matters--
1.) Are you happy with what u do?
2.)Off Days?
3.)Pay
Im single and have no kids ,so for me flying my Lear around and stay at different places,is the ultimate job.
Having a Family with Kids should bring up a few other things to consider.
Merry Xmas ya all ....
ciaoo
What really matters--
1.) Are you happy with what u do?
2.)Off Days?
3.)Pay
Im single and have no kids ,so for me flying my Lear around and stay at different places,is the ultimate job.
Having a Family with Kids should bring up a few other things to consider.
Merry Xmas ya all ....
ciaoo
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How many? Can't tell you. Except say that I am one of them......
Skipped airline FC position with 11 yrs seniority for a job in netJets.
Any I never regret it at all..... I know of 4 former colleagues who is considering NetJets, presently being in FC positions in Easy, Ryan and Sterling.....
Lowcost sucks when you have been there - despite the pay, it get's to you.
And typeratings isn't everything. A great job with a good lifestyle counts more than a B737/A320 typerating and $$/€€/££ on the bankaccount after some time!
Merry Xmas to everybody
Skipped airline FC position with 11 yrs seniority for a job in netJets.
Any I never regret it at all..... I know of 4 former colleagues who is considering NetJets, presently being in FC positions in Easy, Ryan and Sterling.....
Lowcost sucks when you have been there - despite the pay, it get's to you.
And typeratings isn't everything. A great job with a good lifestyle counts more than a B737/A320 typerating and $$/€€/££ on the bankaccount after some time!
Merry Xmas to everybody
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CRJ
Glad netjets is working for you, however NetJets is not like "Normal" GA, you must concede that it is an airline with no route structure, flying non airline equipment.
Being called by the boss at midnight on your day off for an early departure and making sandwiches in your hotel room can be on occasion what its like.
Dont tell this guy that taking the Lear job is like Netjets cos its not!
NJE P1 salarys are more in line with Loco P1 salarys as well - this is against the GA norm.
Once again glad you made the move to Netjets and its working for you
Glad netjets is working for you, however NetJets is not like "Normal" GA, you must concede that it is an airline with no route structure, flying non airline equipment.
Being called by the boss at midnight on your day off for an early departure and making sandwiches in your hotel room can be on occasion what its like.
Dont tell this guy that taking the Lear job is like Netjets cos its not!
NJE P1 salarys are more in line with Loco P1 salarys as well - this is against the GA norm.
Once again glad you made the move to Netjets and its working for you
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Thanks for teaching me this morning that Netjets is an abnormal general aviation airline with no route structure and flying non-airline equipment.
I bet you emptied a few buckets of Irish brew before you wrote that
Maybe our dear Brie here will not be flying for Netjets, but that may very well be the case in a few years, after his Lear experience.
Let's wish him all the best!
Oh, and yes, Netjets is one of the biggest operators of bizjets (if not the biggest) in Europe and therefore they are setting the standards of the industry.
I would be very interested to know more about your background dear G-spot, as you seem to be a passionate but not a connaisseur.
I bet you emptied a few buckets of Irish brew before you wrote that
Maybe our dear Brie here will not be flying for Netjets, but that may very well be the case in a few years, after his Lear experience.
Let's wish him all the best!
Oh, and yes, Netjets is one of the biggest operators of bizjets (if not the biggest) in Europe and therefore they are setting the standards of the industry.
I would be very interested to know more about your background dear G-spot, as you seem to be a passionate but not a connaisseur.